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<!--quoteo(post=40995:date=May 28 2009, 10:41 PM:name=Fella)-->QUOTE (Fella @ May 28 2009, 10:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=40992:date=May 28 2009, 09:38 PM:name=Clapp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Clapp @ May 28 2009, 09:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=40985:date=May 28 2009, 09:22 PM:name=Fella)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fella @ May 28 2009, 09:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->FWIW my argument really had nothing to do with DeRosa, it was a horrible trade, but we still have good hitters (if they were actually hitting). My biggest problem is blaming 6 shitty games on handedness, I don't buy it and never will, its bullshit. It was not a completely right handed lineup and saying Zambrano and Fuk don't count because they sucked and were pitcher respectively is ridiculous. Z is hands down the best hitting pitcher in the entire league not to mention he has double and walked in the playoffs. And Fuk last season was playing just as well as Fontenot has this this year, you can't have it both ways.
Bottom line, if it was that big of a problem, Lou should have played Fontenot every game and carried Hofpauir on the roster. Edomonds was a .900 OPS lefty in every game, Fontenot was a .900 OPS lefty that easily could have played every game, Fuk should have at least made the pitcher do something different like we all keep hearing they didn't have to.
Even after these moves this off-season we only added a total of one left handed bat to our 'A' lineup, when everyone is healthy. <b>Its not gonna matter, we lost because we played awful and shit our pants after the Loney grand slam.</b> It showed up in our defense, it showed up in our offense and it showed up in our baserunning.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Please, they shit their pants when they walked on the field, the last 2 seasons.
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[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif[/img] Can't argue with that
The Loney HR just seemed to be event last year that made everyone give up.
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I knew it was over at that point too. Not just the game but the entire series.
But yeah, from the looks of this team this season, and the past two postseasons, Butch's idea to gut the team and management and start over would be the most baseball savvy plan especially when the new owner takes over. Fat chance of it ever happening though. We need a complete organizational attitude change starting from the top.
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It would require eating a ton of salary, but we could rebuild if that's really what we wanted to do.
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<!--quoteo(post=41000:date=May 28 2009, 09:53 PM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ May 28 2009, 09:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->It would require eating a ton of salary, but we could rebuild if that's really what we wanted to do.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I gotta disagree with you on this one, I'm actually not sure its even possible from a business standpoint. You can't piss off your entire fan base, lose TV ratings, win 65 games AND have a payroll of 100+ million dollars going to no one.
Hendry made this team and now he has to live with it, and so do we.
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<!--quoteo(post=41001:date=May 28 2009, 10:58 PM:name=Fella)-->QUOTE (Fella @ May 28 2009, 10:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=41000:date=May 28 2009, 09:53 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ May 28 2009, 09:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->It would require eating a ton of salary, but we could rebuild if that's really what we wanted to do.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I gotta disagree with you on this one, I'm actually not sure its even possible from a business standpoint. You can't piss off your entire fan base, lose TV ratings, win 65 games AND have a payroll of 100+ million dollars going to no one.
Hendry made this team and now he has to live with it, and so do we.
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I don't think they could do it today, but if we're out of contention around the trade deadline, I think it could be done.
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Just to be clear, by the way -- I don't think it WILL happen, but I think it COULD happen if whoever is manning this ship decides to go that route (which they won't).
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<!--quoteo(post=41004:date=May 28 2009, 10:12 PM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ May 28 2009, 10:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Just to be clear, by the way -- I don't think it WILL happen, but I think it COULD happen if whoever is manning this ship decides to go that route (which they won't).<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think it can at all, seriously. These are contracts the Cubs cannot get rid of, and you're not going to make 15 trades in the middle of the season.
Anyway, you just can't do it. If everybody plays like their career averages, it's a top 3-5 team in baseball. You can't just give up on talent like that. And honestly, I have much more confidence in them doing something than bringing over 15 Felix Pie's to develop. That's really worked out well for us.
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<!--quoteo(post=40999:date=May 28 2009, 10:51 PM:name=rok)-->QUOTE (rok @ May 28 2009, 10:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Butch's idea to gut the team and management and start over would be the most baseball savvy plan<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Excuse me? Blowing up a team that has a core that won 97 games last year is the most baseeball savvy plan?
Sorry guys, but this has gone too far. You don't just give up cause you're going through a rough patch. The most baseball savvy plan would be to keep your team together and try again. There's not absolutely proven method to winning a World Series, there just isn't. But, you can hedge your bets.
You wanna know the real secret to winning a WS? Have 1 or 2 starting pitchers get hot in October. That's the best formula you can use. However, since there's no magical potion that enables a pitcher to "get hot", we and any other team that hopes to win it all will just have to hedge their bets.
-Get starters that are able to get hot during a stretch
I think Zambrano, Harden, and Lilly are all capable of being shutdown for short periods of time, so that's covered
-Get position players that can fight through slumps
believe it or not, we have a lineup capable of fighting through slumps because of the fact that they take walks pretty frequently
-Get position players that can handle tough starting pitchers
I think this is where a balanced lineup helps you. No, being very right-handed was not the single culprit causing the offense to struggle in the playoffs... but I think it was a part of it. Yes, the team was 20 games over .500 against RHP last year, but was against the entire league. The playoffs are the best pitchers of the best teams, and having your lineup best prepared as possible is vital.
It's simple, to win the WS you pretty much have to get lucky. There are ways of increasing your chances of getting lucky and having a more balanced lineup (and yes, having 3-4 batters in a lineup not including your switch hitting pitcher does make a difference compared to 2-3 batters like we had last year) can help improve those chances against the elite pitchers we may face in the playoffs.
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<!--quoteo(post=41012:date=May 29 2009, 01:36 AM:name=Scarey)-->QUOTE (Scarey @ May 29 2009, 01:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--> -Get position players that can handle tough starting pitchers
I think this is where a balanced lineup helps you. No, being very right-handed was not the single culprit causing the offense to struggle in the playoffs... but I think it was a part of it. Yes, the team was 20 games over .500 against RHP last year, but was against the entire league. The playoffs are the best pitchers of the best teams, and having your lineup best prepared as possible is vital.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Exactly.
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I'm not saying balanced lineups are bad, its nice to have a mix of lefties and righties in the lineup, I don't think anyone would argue that. That's not really the point. The point is the Cubs were fine against righties all year, even good righties most of the time. Every team in the playoffs has to face the best teams and the best pitching, not just us. We beat the Dodgers exact same pitching staff 5 of 7 times in the regular season, including Kuroda once and Billingsley twice. Handedness was not a problem then.
Lowe always owned us, but like I said before, I really think he is just a bad matchup for us , he always owns us, I fully expect him to do so again next week. He also is maybe even better against lefties than he is righties because of his changeup and two seem sinker that dives down and away to lefties.
The thing that pissed me off about the handedness thing is that is was Lou and Hendry's scapegoat. It was their excuse as to why we lost rather than "we just weren't prepared and we shit the bed" which was the actual problem. They then made their off-season plan to get more left-handed even if it meant dumping right handed players.
Anyway I've made my point, I'm not gonna post on this again, but if you guys really think adding one extra lefty to our lineup was gonna fix that mess of a series I think your looking for excuses.
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<!--quoteo(post=41015:date=May 29 2009, 02:26 AM:name=Fella)-->QUOTE (Fella @ May 29 2009, 02:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Anyway I've made my point, I'm not gonna post on this again, but if you guys really think adding one extra lefty to our lineup was gonna fix that mess of a series I think your looking for excuses.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Who said that was gonna fix the series? I'm just wondering, if somebody said that, I missed it.
And this is what Kuroda and Billingsley did to us in the regular season:
9 IP, 0 ER
6.1 IP, 1 ER
6 IP, 2 ER
5.1 IP, 4 ER
We beat the Dodgers pre-Manny:
3-1
3-1
2-1
5-4
3-1
Just saying we weren't hitting them in the regular season either.
I don't think we win the series last year unless Manny switched teams or we got a run for every turd dripping down our legs.
Will handedness help things? Not if they keep shitting the bed like they have been, but what we had before wasn't working before and something needed to be done. They couldn't make significant moves with the team and they felt this was one way to probably not fix, but help it. It's possible it's just a bunch of pussies that will never win another game there, but we're stuck with the core of them, so only a minor thing like this could be done to possibly change things. Again, mainly what I'll remember with Mark DeRosa is 6-4-3 with a 3-1 count in the 8th inning, bases loaded, in game 3 '07, and the E-4 he made on a double play ball that could've prevented that 30 run inning in game 2.
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<!--quoteo(post=41012:date=May 29 2009, 02:36 AM:name=Scarey)-->QUOTE (Scarey @ May 29 2009, 02:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=40999:date=May 28 2009, 10:51 PM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ May 28 2009, 10:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Butch's idea to gut the team and management and start over would be the most baseball savvy plan<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Excuse me? Blowing up a team that has a core that won 97 games last year is the most baseeball savvy plan?
Sorry guys, but this has gone too far. You don't just give up cause you're going through a rough patch. The most baseball savvy plan would be to keep your team together and try again. There's not absolutely proven method to winning a World Series, there just isn't. But, you can hedge your bets.
You wanna know the real secret to winning a WS? Have 1 or 2 starting pitchers get hot in October. That's the best formula you can use. However, since there's no magical potion that enables a pitcher to "get hot", we and any other team that hopes to win it all will just have to hedge their bets.
-Get starters that are able to get hot during a stretch
I think Zambrano, Harden, and Lilly are all capable of being shutdown for short periods of time, so that's covered
-Get position players that can fight through slumps
believe it or not, we have a lineup capable of fighting through slumps because of the fact that they take walks pretty frequently
-Get position players that can handle tough starting pitchers
I think this is where a balanced lineup helps you. No, being very right-handed was not the single culprit causing the offense to struggle in the playoffs... but I think it was a part of it. Yes, the team was 20 games over .500 against RHP last year, but was against the entire league. The playoffs are the best pitchers of the best teams, and having your lineup best prepared as possible is vital.
It's simple, to win the WS you pretty much have to get lucky. There are ways of increasing your chances of getting lucky and having a more balanced lineup (and yes, having 3-4 batters in a lineup not including your switch hitting pitcher does make a difference compared to 2-3 batters like we had last year) can help improve those chances against the elite pitchers we may face in the playoffs.
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I never said it would happen, or that the fanbase would like it to happen. I'm just expressing what I'd like to see. We aren't winning anything with this group.
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<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->The thing that pissed me off about the handedness thing is that is was Lou and Hendry's scapegoat.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes it was their scapegoat. And Phil Rogers, and Rob Neyer, and Buster Olney, and Jayson Stark, and Paul Sullivan, and most people at baseball prospectus, and most people on Baseball Tonight, and most people at Baseball America, and virtually every sportswriter that wrote about the series.
It might be a copout, but it isn't one they pulled out of their ass. EVERYBODY said the same thing, virtually to a man. They might all be wrong, but Lou and Hendry were hardly in the minority when put forth the idea that maybe the Dodgers should have to at least warm up a lefty next time we fact them in the post season.
I wish that I believed in Fate. I wish I didn't sleep so late. I used to be carried in the arms of cheerleaders.
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Yeah, I remember a lot of people saying it. Doesn't make it true.
The Cubs played 162 games and won 97. The vast majority of those games were against RHP. We scored more runs than any other team -- mostly against RHP.
But because we played like shit for three games, suddenly our problem *with the same lineup that won 97 games and scored more runs than any other team* was too many RHB.
OK.
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Yea, I have trouble buying any of this "choking" or whatever argument. We were victimized by a short series. It happens more often than not. It wasn't an issue of being "exposed". Soriano was cold, as he is want to be more often than not. Ramirez is streaky. Fuk was bad all second half. It's the nature of the beast of this team, not an issue of handedness or exposure or whatever.
As I've said, if the DeRo move had to be done for money's sake, fine. I don't know if I buy it as the reason, but I understand why that'd have to be done if it were the reasoning. If it was done just to get Fontenot more at bats because he hits lefty, that was idiotic. It's not like DeRosa was blocking Chase Utley.
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Sorry if I missed this somewhere else.
Stltoday is reporting that the Cards have some interest in Indians Infielder Mark DeRosa. Currently the Cards are waiting for Troy Glaus to come back from injury. If his injury takes longer than expected the Cardinals might be interested in trading for DeRosa
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