DeRosa Traded to Indians

[Butcher]

<!--quoteo(post=40794:date=May 28 2009, 01:08 PM:name=vitaminB)-->QUOTE (vitaminB @ May 28 2009, 01:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=40789:date=May 28 2009, 01:58 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ May 28 2009, 01:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->DeRosa was moved to make Fontenot the everyday 2B. Sort of.

I still think the DeRosa trade was a precursor to the botched Peavy deal. But I haven't decided which is worse; that scenario or the "handedness" scenario.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

For my money the lefty thing had to be addressed. I mean we were horrible against the Dodgers. People have been saying we need to get a more balanced lineup around here for years. Fontenot was hitting great at the end of the year last year, and miles gave us a need for a utility guy after Dero was moved. I get that. I do think however, if the Peavy deal had gotten done we'd all have been happy to let DeRosa go.

I think if Harden stays on the DL for any length of time Hendry will figure out a way to get Peavy. Then all we need is Alan Trammels blessing to put Fox at third and we'll be just fine.
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We won 97 games last year -- our lineup was fine. Losing 3 games to the Dodgers had very little to do with our lack of left-handed hitters.

[rok]

<!--quoteo(post=40797:date=May 28 2009, 01:13 PM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ May 28 2009, 01:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=40794:date=May 28 2009, 01:08 PM:name=vitaminB)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (vitaminB @ May 28 2009, 01:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=40789:date=May 28 2009, 01:58 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ May 28 2009, 01:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->DeRosa was moved to make Fontenot the everyday 2B. Sort of.

I still think the DeRosa trade was a precursor to the botched Peavy deal. But I haven't decided which is worse; that scenario or the "handedness" scenario.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

For my money the lefty thing had to be addressed. I mean we were horrible against the Dodgers. People have been saying we need to get a more balanced lineup around here for years. Fontenot was hitting great at the end of the year last year, and miles gave us a need for a utility guy after Dero was moved. I get that. I do think however, if the Peavy deal had gotten done we'd all have been happy to let DeRosa go.

I think if Harden stays on the DL for any length of time Hendry will figure out a way to get Peavy. Then all we need is Alan Trammels blessing to put Fox at third and we'll be just fine.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We won 97 games last year -- our lineup was fine. Losing 3 games to the Dodgers had very little to do with our lack of left-handed hitters.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's the thing. Hendry's M.O. during the offseason was to fix our roster to get us deeper into the playoffs. Well, we may never get that opportunity.

I still believe this team needed some minor tinkering, not an overhaul to improve. If Hendry believed that throwing away our most versatile player and replacing him with one-dimensional lesser players, somehow made us more playoff ready, then I don't know what planet he's on.

[vitaminB]

<!--quoteo(post=40797:date=May 28 2009, 02:13 PM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ May 28 2009, 02:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=40794:date=May 28 2009, 01:08 PM:name=vitaminB)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (vitaminB @ May 28 2009, 01:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=40789:date=May 28 2009, 01:58 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ May 28 2009, 01:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->DeRosa was moved to make Fontenot the everyday 2B. Sort of.

I still think the DeRosa trade was a precursor to the botched Peavy deal. But I haven't decided which is worse; that scenario or the "handedness" scenario.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

For my money the lefty thing had to be addressed. I mean we were horrible against the Dodgers. People have been saying we need to get a more balanced lineup around here for years. Fontenot was hitting great at the end of the year last year, and miles gave us a need for a utility guy after Dero was moved. I get that. I do think however, if the Peavy deal had gotten done we'd all have been happy to let DeRosa go.

I think if Harden stays on the DL for any length of time Hendry will figure out a way to get Peavy. Then all we need is Alan Trammels blessing to put Fox at third and we'll be just fine.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We won 97 games last year -- our lineup was fine. Losing 3 games to the Dodgers had very little to do with our lack of left-handed hitters.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I understand that we had a great regular season last year, but we are 0-6 in the playoffs the last couple of years with that right-handed lineup. Just saying.

[Butcher]

<!--quoteo(post=40799:date=May 28 2009, 01:17 PM:name=rok)-->QUOTE (rok @ May 28 2009, 01:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=40797:date=May 28 2009, 01:13 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ May 28 2009, 01:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=40794:date=May 28 2009, 01:08 PM:name=vitaminB)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (vitaminB @ May 28 2009, 01:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=40789:date=May 28 2009, 01:58 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ May 28 2009, 01:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->DeRosa was moved to make Fontenot the everyday 2B. Sort of.

I still think the DeRosa trade was a precursor to the botched Peavy deal. But I haven't decided which is worse; that scenario or the "handedness" scenario.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

For my money the lefty thing had to be addressed. I mean we were horrible against the Dodgers. People have been saying we need to get a more balanced lineup around here for years. Fontenot was hitting great at the end of the year last year, and miles gave us a need for a utility guy after Dero was moved. I get that. I do think however, if the Peavy deal had gotten done we'd all have been happy to let DeRosa go.

I think if Harden stays on the DL for any length of time Hendry will figure out a way to get Peavy. Then all we need is Alan Trammels blessing to put Fox at third and we'll be just fine.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We won 97 games last year -- our lineup was fine. Losing 3 games to the Dodgers had very little to do with our lack of left-handed hitters.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's the thing. Hendry's M.O. during the offseason was to fix our roster to get us deeper into the playoffs. Well, we may never get that opportunity.

I still believe this team needed some minor tinkering, not an overhaul to improve. If Hendry believed that throwing away our most versatile player and replacing him with one-dimensional lesser players, somehow made us more playoff ready, then I don't know what planet he's on.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think beyond building the best team you possibly can, "building a team to go deep into the playoffs" is sort of a myth. Is there some magical formula that makes a great playoff team (that is different from a great regular season team)? Did the '06 Cardinals (a great playoff team and a thoroughly mediocre regular season team) have some element that made them win in October that we're lacking?

The only thing I can think of that comes close is a legitimate ace. Someone who starts game 1, shuts the other team down and then starts game 5 (if necessary) and shuts the other team down again. It's what Wood did in '03. That 2003 Cubs team wasn't great, offensively. But we had two amazing starting pitchers -- and that nearly took us to the promised land.

We are lacking in that department and have been the last few years. Overall, we have a solid staff, 1-5. But there isn't a Schilling-Johnson 1-2 punch. Not even close.

[Fella]

People also seem to completely ignore we had 2 or 3 lefties in the lineup every game against the Dodgers, it wasn't a completely right handed lineup that allowed the pitcher to settle in and do the same thing to every hitter, like I keep hearing. We had Edmonds, we had Fuk, Fontenot started one game, Z started one game, Fontenot was also available to start more if we wanted, Hoffpauir could have been on the roster if we wanted.

And what if we faced the Phillies or Mets who had a left handed ace? Its a cop out excuse, we were fine with our lineup in the regular season and it was fine in the postseason, we were 20 games over .500 against right handers in the regular season, so why was it all of the sudden a problem for those 3 games? We got a bad match up and our players panicked and shit the bed from the moment Loney's grand slam cleared the wall.

[Butcher]

<!--quoteo(post=40804:date=May 28 2009, 01:26 PM:name=Fella)-->QUOTE (Fella @ May 28 2009, 01:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->People also seem to completely ignore we had 2 or 3 lefties in the lineup every game against the Dodgers, it wasn't a completely right handed lineup that allowed the pitcher to settle in and do the same thing to every hitter, like I keep hearing. We had Edmonds, we had Fuk, Fontenot started one game, Z started one game, Fontenot was also available to start more if we wanted, Hoffpauir could have been on the roster if we wanted.

And what if we faced the Phillies or Mets who had a left handed ace? Its a cop out excuse, we were fine with our lineup in the regular season and it was fine in the postseason, we were 20 games over .500 against right handers in the regular season, so why was it all of the sudden a problem for those 3 games? We got a bad match up and our players panicked and shit the bed from the moment Loney's grand slam cleared the wall.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Fella speaks truth.

[ColoradoCub]

<!--quoteo(post=40794:date=May 28 2009, 12:08 PM:name=vitaminB)-->QUOTE (vitaminB @ May 28 2009, 12:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=40789:date=May 28 2009, 01:58 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ May 28 2009, 01:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->DeRosa was moved to make Fontenot the everyday 2B. Sort of.

I still think the DeRosa trade was a precursor to the botched Peavy deal. But I haven't decided which is worse; that scenario or the "handedness" scenario.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

For my money the lefty thing had to be addressed. I mean we were horrible against the Dodgers. People have been saying we need to get a more balanced lineup around here for years. Fontenot was hitting great at the end of the year last year, and miles gave us a need for a utility guy after Dero was moved. I get that. I do think however, if the Peavy deal had gotten done we'd all have been happy to let DeRosa go.

I think if Harden stays on the DL for any length of time Hendry will figure out a way to get Peavy. Then all we need is Alan Trammels blessing to put Fox at third and we'll be just fine.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Would you rather make the playoffs with a lineup that's all right handed, or not make the playoffs with a 'balanced' lineup?

[ColoradoCub]

<!--quoteo(post=40804:date=May 28 2009, 12:26 PM:name=Fella)-->QUOTE (Fella @ May 28 2009, 12:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->People also seem to completely ignore we had 2 or 3 lefties in the lineup every game against the Dodgers, it wasn't a completely right handed lineup that allowed the pitcher to settle in and do the same thing to every hitter, like I keep hearing. We had Edmonds, we had Fuk, Fontenot started one game, Z started one game, Fontenot was also available to start more if we wanted, Hoffpauir could have been on the roster if we wanted.

And what if we faced the Phillies or Mets who had a left handed ace? Its a cop out excuse, we were fine with our lineup in the regular season and it was fine in the postseason, we were 20 games over .500 against right handers in the regular season, so why was it all of the sudden a problem for those 3 games? We got a bad match up and our players panicked and shit the bed from the moment Loney's grand slam cleared the wall.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Fuckin' A right

[rok]

<!--quoteo(post=40807:date=May 28 2009, 01:31 PM:name=ColoradoCub)-->QUOTE (ColoradoCub @ May 28 2009, 01:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=40804:date=May 28 2009, 12:26 PM:name=Fella)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fella @ May 28 2009, 12:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->People also seem to completely ignore we had 2 or 3 lefties in the lineup every game against the Dodgers, it wasn't a completely right handed lineup that allowed the pitcher to settle in and do the same thing to every hitter, like I keep hearing. We had Edmonds, we had Fuk, Fontenot started one game, Z started one game, Fontenot was also available to start more if we wanted, Hoffpauir could have been on the roster if we wanted.

And what if we faced the Phillies or Mets who had a left handed ace? Its a cop out excuse, we were fine with our lineup in the regular season and it was fine in the postseason, we were 20 games over .500 against right handers in the regular season, so why was it all of the sudden a problem for those 3 games? We got a bad match up and our players panicked and shit the bed from the moment Loney's grand slam cleared the wall.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Fuckin' A right
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Darn tootin.

[veryzer]

the dodgers never once used a lefthanded pitcher the entire series. not once. every pitcher the cubs faced was able to get in a groove because they never had to adjust to a lefthanded hitter. never. three games, all righties, game set match. how can this be dismissed?

and contrary to the way the cubs played this year, this is still a team designed to get to the playoffs. if it doesn't happen, it's not because we traded derosa.

[Butcher]

<!--quoteo(post=40812:date=May 28 2009, 01:58 PM:name=veryzer)-->QUOTE (veryzer @ May 28 2009, 01:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->the dodgers never once used a lefthanded pitcher the entire series. not once. every pitcher the cubs faced was able to get in a groove because they never had to adjust to a lefthanded hitter. never. three games, all righties, game set match. how can this be dismissed?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's because all of their best pitchers were right handed, so those were the ones they used. They had one good left handed pitcher on their roster -- Joe Beimel. Is it your contention that if they were forced to use Beimel in some sort of lefty-lefty matchup situation, we would've won the series?

And, like Fella said, we had left handed batters on our roster and in our lineup. So there's that.

[vitaminB]

<!--quoteo(post=40804:date=May 28 2009, 02:26 PM:name=Fella)-->QUOTE (Fella @ May 28 2009, 02:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->People also seem to completely ignore we had 2 or 3 lefties in the lineup every game against the Dodgers, it wasn't a completely right handed lineup that allowed the pitcher to settle in and do the same thing to every hitter, like I keep hearing. We had Edmonds, we had Fuk, Fontenot started one game, Z started one game, Fontenot was also available to start more if we wanted, Hoffpauir could have been on the roster if we wanted.

And what if we faced the Phillies or Mets who had a left handed ace? Its a cop out excuse, we were fine with our lineup in the regular season and it was fine in the postseason, we were 20 games over .500 against right handers in the regular season, so why was it all of the sudden a problem for those 3 games? We got a bad match up and our players panicked and shit the bed from the moment Loney's grand slam cleared the wall.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Yeah, that's right, Fuk (the way he was playing at the end of last year), Jim Edmonds, and a switch hitting starting pitcher is balance. What was I thinking?

[phan]

it was all gad's fault

[Butcher]

having the most talented hitters in your lineup as possible >>> having the most balanced lineup as possible

The reason we lost to the Dodgers in '08 is because we played like shit for 3 games and they played really well for 3 games. It's the same reason we just came off an 8-game losing streak -- we played like shit for 8 games and the teams we faced played better than us for 8 games. It had nothing to do with how left-handed (or right-handed) we are.

[jeffy]

<!--quoteo(post=40812:date=May 28 2009, 01:58 PM:name=veryzer)-->QUOTE (veryzer @ May 28 2009, 01:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->and contrary to the way the cubs played this year, this is still a team designed to get to the playoffs. if it doesn't happen, it's not because we traded derosa.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

True dat.