DeRosa Traded to Indians

[Butcher]

Then you keep Fontenot as the backup. It doesn't really matter who is named the "official" starter and the "official" backup. I've already outlined how they both could've had plenty of ABs between them. Looking at Fontenot so far this season, maybe there's a reason he's never been a full-time player before.

[Clapp]

<!--quoteo(post=40855:date=May 28 2009, 04:10 PM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ May 28 2009, 04:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Remember the 2006 Cardinals? One LH hitter (Edmonds) and one switch hitter (Miles). Their lack of lefties didn't slow them down in the playoffs.

The 2005 White Sox? Two lefties (AJP -- who sucked that year, and Podsednik, who was OK) and one switch hitter (Carl Everett, who sucked). They were just as right-handed as we were the last two seasons, and they breezed through the playoffs.

You don't need balance. You need good hitting and pitching. Sure, it's nice to have a couple of lefties in there, but our "lack of balance" wasn't why the Dodgers destroyed us in the playoffs.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It was exposed on our team the last 2 seasons. All of those right-handed pitchers got in a groove against us. They were pitching to the same thing about every at bat. Throwing in a left-handed hitter can mess with the comfort level of a pitcher and force them to use pitches they haven't been throughout the game. Something had to be done with this team, the last 2 years were not working, and anybody that watched the team on a daily basis knows the those 2 playoff series were not just bad slumps.

Is it possible to win a World Series lineup that is completely right-handed? Of course, but it's not a recipe for success and anybody involved in baseball will tell you that. With the huge contracts on this team all over the diamond, there weren't many ways to change this team. Getting more left-handed was in fact a need, and thisct was a way to address that.

It's not like we're talking about a special talent here. He's a very good player, but Milton Bradley, Mike Fontenot, and Micah Hoffpauir are all at least as good of a hitter or better than he is. The versatility is not an issue anymore. The loss of Mark DeRosas will have zero impact on this season. I'll be much more upset if Gaudin and Vizcaino do well than if DeRosa does, because that's something we could use right about now.

The lineup is built better to hit a Brandon Webb or Derek Lowe now, as well as Santana and Hamels. I like the way this team is built much more heading into October if guys start performing how they're capable of, <i>that's</i> the real problem here, not the trades or cuts we've made.

[Clapp]

<!--quoteo(post=40857:date=May 28 2009, 04:23 PM:name=savant)-->QUOTE (savant @ May 28 2009, 04:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Anyone that thinks that DeRosa was just going to gladly accept being a backup needs to step away from the crack pipe. Anyone that thinks that being accessible to the media, and saying what fans want to hear makes a player a team leader also needs to step away from the crack pipe. Right or wrong Hendry felt that Fontenot deserved to get the majority of the AB's at second with a pretty good righthanded platoon partner, he was also comfortable with Micah being the primary backup at the corners in the outfield.

The problem I have with the roster so far has been that we have been playing shorthanded all season because of the nagging injuries with people missing games, and not being dl'ed. Carrying pitchers in Patton and Cotts that are never being used in real game situations making an already weak bench non-existent. Lous handling of the bullpen has been laughable at best.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Bingo.

[veryzer]

<!--quoteo(post=40857:date=May 28 2009, 05:23 PM:name=savant)-->QUOTE (savant @ May 28 2009, 05:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Anyone that thinks that DeRosa was just going to gladly accept being a backup needs to step away from the crack pipe. Anyone that thinks that being accessible to the media, and saying what fans want to hear makes a player a team leader also needs to step away from the crack pipe. Right or wrong Hendry felt that Fontenot deserved to get the majority of the AB's at second with a pretty good righthanded platoon partner, he was also comfortable with Micah being the primary backup at the corners in the outfield.

The problem I have with the roster so far has been that we have been playing shorthanded all season because of the nagging injuries with people missing games, and not being dl'ed. Carrying pitchers in Patton and Cotts that are never being used in real game situations making an already weak bench non-existent. Lous handling of the bullpen has been laughable at best.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


you betchum.

[veryzer]

<!--quoteo(post=40860:date=May 28 2009, 05:29 PM:name=Clapp)-->QUOTE (Clapp @ May 28 2009, 05:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=40855:date=May 28 2009, 04:10 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ May 28 2009, 04:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Remember the 2006 Cardinals? One LH hitter (Edmonds) and one switch hitter (Miles). Their lack of lefties didn't slow them down in the playoffs.

The 2005 White Sox? Two lefties (AJP -- who sucked that year, and Podsednik, who was OK) and one switch hitter (Carl Everett, who sucked). They were just as right-handed as we were the last two seasons, and they breezed through the playoffs.

You don't need balance. You need good hitting and pitching. Sure, it's nice to have a couple of lefties in there, but our "lack of balance" wasn't why the Dodgers destroyed us in the playoffs.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It was exposed on our team the last 2 seasons. All of those right-handed pitchers got in a groove against us. They were pitching to the same thing about every at bat. Throwing in a left-handed hitter can mess with the comfort level of a pitcher and force them to use pitches they haven't been throughout the game. Something had to be done with this team, the last 2 years were not working, and anybody that watched the team on a daily basis knows the those 2 playoff series were not just bad slumps.

Is it possible to win a World Series lineup that is completely right-handed? Of course, but it's not a recipe for success and anybody involved in baseball will tell you that. With the huge contracts on this team all over the diamond, there weren't many ways to change this team. Getting more left-handed was in fact a need, and thisct was a way to address that.

It's not like we're talking about a special talent here. He's a very good player, but Milton Bradley, Mike Fontenot, and Micah Hoffpauir are all at least as good of a hitter or better than he is. The versatility is not an issue anymore. The loss of Mark DeRosas will have zero impact on this season. I'll be much more upset if Gaudin and Vizcaino do well than if DeRosa does, because that's something we could use right about now.

The lineup is built better to hit a Brandon Webb or Derek Lowe now, as well as Santana and Hamels. I like the way this team is built much more heading into October if guys start performing how they're capable of, <i>that's</i> the real problem here, not the trades or cuts we've made.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


on the real.

[Butcher]

-We were 20 games over .500 against RHP last season. All of our good hitters fared well against RHP for 162 games. Did we get magically "exposed" on the 163rd game?

-Our lack of balance didn't make Dempster shit the bed in game 1 and our defense shit the bed in game 2.

-I watched and/or listened to 95% of the games over the last two years, Clapp, so I'm not sure what that comment meant.

I liked your "no balls" theory a lot more than the lack of LHB theory. I could buy our players crumbling under the pressure. But I don't see anything that supports the handedness theory.

[Clapp]

<!--quoteo(post=40864:date=May 28 2009, 04:55 PM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ May 28 2009, 04:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->-We were 20 games over .500 against RHP last season. All of our good hitters fared well against RHP for 162 games. Did we get magically "exposed" on the 163rd game?

-<b>Our lack of balance didn't make Dempster shit the bed in game 1 and our defense shit the bed in game 2.
</b>
-I watched and/or listened to 95% of the games over the last two years, Clapp, so I'm not sure what that comment meant.

I liked your "no balls" theory a lot more than the lack of LHB theory. I could buy our players crumbling under the pressure. But I don't see anything that supports the handedness theory.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Dude, we didn't score enough runs to win the games. 6 runs in 3 games, both years, it's not going to work. You can keep blaming Dempster all you want but the series was completely on the offense, just like the year before.

And the 2nd comment wasn't meant to mean anything or directed at you, I was just saying. You really believe they just had a couple bad slumps? They choked and they were exposed. Wasn't just an off few days, especially with last year's team.

[Butcher]

The offense sucked ass. I'm not giving our offense a pass.

We got outscored by a huge margin in that series. I feel comfortable saying that an extra LHB in the lineup wasn't going to even up the runs scored to runs allowed ratio enough to make a bit of difference.

[Clapp]

<!--quoteo(post=40866:date=May 28 2009, 05:17 PM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ May 28 2009, 05:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->The offense sucked ass. I'm not giving our offense a pass.

We got outscored by a huge margin in that series. I feel comfortable saying that an extra LHB in the lineup wasn't going to even up the runs scored to runs allowed ratio enough to make a bit of difference.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Probably not. I don't think we're ever winning another playoff game, but I like how this team is built for it more at least.

[Fella]

FWIW my argument really had nothing to do with DeRosa, it was a horrible trade, but we still have good hitters (if they were actually hitting). My biggest problem is blaming 6 shitty games on handedness, I don't buy it and never will, its bullshit. It was not a completely right handed lineup and saying Zambrano and Fuk don't count because they sucked and were pitcher respectively is ridiculous. Z is hands down the best hitting pitcher in the entire league not to mention he has double and walked in the playoffs. And Fuk last season was playing just as well as Fontenot has this this year, you can't have it both ways.

Bottom line, if it was that big of a problem, Lou should have played Fontenot every game and carried Hofpauir on the roster. Edomonds was a .900 OPS lefty in every game, Fontenot was a .900 OPS lefty that easily could have played every game, Fuk should have at least made the pitcher do something different like we all keep hearing they didn't have to.

Even after these moves this off-season we only added a total of one left handed bat to our 'A' lineup, when everyone is healthy. Its not gonna matter, we lost because we played awful and shit our pants after the Loney grand slam. It showed up in our defense, it showed up in our offense and it showed up in our baserunning.

[rok]

<!--quoteo(post=40985:date=May 28 2009, 10:22 PM:name=Fella)-->QUOTE (Fella @ May 28 2009, 10:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->FWIW my argument really had nothing to do with DeRosa, it was a horrible trade, but we still have good hitters (if they were actually hitting). My biggest problem is blaming 6 shitty games on handedness, I don't buy it and never will, its bullshit. It was not a completely right handed lineup and saying Zambrano and Fuk don't count because they sucked and were pitcher respectively is ridiculous. Z is hands down the best hitting pitcher in the entire league not to mention he has double and walked in the playoffs. And Fuk last season was playing just as well as Fontenot has this this year, you can't have it both ways.

Bottom line, if it was that big of a problem, Lou should have played Fontenot every game and carried Hofpauir on the roster. Edomonds was a .900 OPS lefty in every game, Fontenot was a .900 OPS lefty that easily could have played every game, Fuk should have at least made the pitcher do something different like we all keep hearing they didn't have to.

Even after these moves this off-season we only added a total of one left handed bat to our 'A' lineup, when everyone is healthy. Its not gonna matter, we lost because we played awful and shit our pants after the Loney grand slam. It showed up in our defense, it showed up in our offense and it showed up in our baserunning.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
End of argument.

[Clapp]

<!--quoteo(post=40985:date=May 28 2009, 09:22 PM:name=Fella)-->QUOTE (Fella @ May 28 2009, 09:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->FWIW my argument really had nothing to do with DeRosa, it was a horrible trade, but we still have good hitters (if they were actually hitting). My biggest problem is blaming 6 shitty games on handedness, I don't buy it and never will, its bullshit. It was not a completely right handed lineup and saying Zambrano and Fuk don't count because they sucked and were pitcher respectively is ridiculous. Z is hands down the best hitting pitcher in the entire league not to mention he has double and walked in the playoffs. And Fuk last season was playing just as well as Fontenot has this this year, you can't have it both ways.

Bottom line, if it was that big of a problem, Lou should have played Fontenot every game and carried Hofpauir on the roster. Edomonds was a .900 OPS lefty in every game, Fontenot was a .900 OPS lefty that easily could have played every game, Fuk should have at least made the pitcher do something different like we all keep hearing they didn't have to.

Even after these moves this off-season we only added a total of one left handed bat to our 'A' lineup, when everyone is healthy. <b>Its not gonna matter, we lost because we played awful and shit our pants after the Loney grand slam.</b> It showed up in our defense, it showed up in our offense and it showed up in our baserunning.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Please, they shit their pants when they walked on the field, the last 2 seasons.

[Butcher]

<!--quoteo(post=40992:date=May 28 2009, 10:38 PM:name=Clapp)-->QUOTE (Clapp @ May 28 2009, 10:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=40985:date=May 28 2009, 09:22 PM:name=Fella)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fella @ May 28 2009, 09:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->FWIW my argument really had nothing to do with DeRosa, it was a horrible trade, but we still have good hitters (if they were actually hitting). My biggest problem is blaming 6 shitty games on handedness, I don't buy it and never will, its bullshit. It was not a completely right handed lineup and saying Zambrano and Fuk don't count because they sucked and were pitcher respectively is ridiculous. Z is hands down the best hitting pitcher in the entire league not to mention he has double and walked in the playoffs. And Fuk last season was playing just as well as Fontenot has this this year, you can't have it both ways.

Bottom line, if it was that big of a problem, Lou should have played Fontenot every game and carried Hofpauir on the roster. Edomonds was a .900 OPS lefty in every game, Fontenot was a .900 OPS lefty that easily could have played every game, Fuk should have at least made the pitcher do something different like we all keep hearing they didn't have to.

Even after these moves this off-season we only added a total of one left handed bat to our 'A' lineup, when everyone is healthy. <b>Its not gonna matter, we lost because we played awful and shit our pants after the Loney grand slam.</b> It showed up in our defense, it showed up in our offense and it showed up in our baserunning.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Please, they shit their pants when they walked on the field, the last 2 seasons.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If that's truly the case, then we need to gut this team from top to bottom because adding a couple of players isn't going to fix it.

[Fella]

<!--quoteo(post=40992:date=May 28 2009, 09:38 PM:name=Clapp)-->QUOTE (Clapp @ May 28 2009, 09:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=40985:date=May 28 2009, 09:22 PM:name=Fella)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fella @ May 28 2009, 09:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->FWIW my argument really had nothing to do with DeRosa, it was a horrible trade, but we still have good hitters (if they were actually hitting). My biggest problem is blaming 6 shitty games on handedness, I don't buy it and never will, its bullshit. It was not a completely right handed lineup and saying Zambrano and Fuk don't count because they sucked and were pitcher respectively is ridiculous. Z is hands down the best hitting pitcher in the entire league not to mention he has double and walked in the playoffs. And Fuk last season was playing just as well as Fontenot has this this year, you can't have it both ways.

Bottom line, if it was that big of a problem, Lou should have played Fontenot every game and carried Hofpauir on the roster. Edomonds was a .900 OPS lefty in every game, Fontenot was a .900 OPS lefty that easily could have played every game, Fuk should have at least made the pitcher do something different like we all keep hearing they didn't have to.

Even after these moves this off-season we only added a total of one left handed bat to our 'A' lineup, when everyone is healthy. <b>Its not gonna matter, we lost because we played awful and shit our pants after the Loney grand slam.</b> It showed up in our defense, it showed up in our offense and it showed up in our baserunning.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Please, they shit their pants when they walked on the field, the last 2 seasons.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif[/img] Can't argue with that

The Loney HR just seemed to be event last year that made everyone give up.

[Clapp]

<!--quoteo(post=40994:date=May 28 2009, 09:41 PM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ May 28 2009, 09:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=40992:date=May 28 2009, 10:38 PM:name=Clapp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Clapp @ May 28 2009, 10:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=40985:date=May 28 2009, 09:22 PM:name=Fella)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fella @ May 28 2009, 09:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->FWIW my argument really had nothing to do with DeRosa, it was a horrible trade, but we still have good hitters (if they were actually hitting). My biggest problem is blaming 6 shitty games on handedness, I don't buy it and never will, its bullshit. It was not a completely right handed lineup and saying Zambrano and Fuk don't count because they sucked and were pitcher respectively is ridiculous. Z is hands down the best hitting pitcher in the entire league not to mention he has double and walked in the playoffs. And Fuk last season was playing just as well as Fontenot has this this year, you can't have it both ways.

Bottom line, if it was that big of a problem, Lou should have played Fontenot every game and carried Hofpauir on the roster. Edomonds was a .900 OPS lefty in every game, Fontenot was a .900 OPS lefty that easily could have played every game, Fuk should have at least made the pitcher do something different like we all keep hearing they didn't have to.

Even after these moves this off-season we only added a total of one left handed bat to our 'A' lineup, when everyone is healthy. <b>Its not gonna matter, we lost because we played awful and shit our pants after the Loney grand slam.</b> It showed up in our defense, it showed up in our offense and it showed up in our baserunning.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Please, they shit their pants when they walked on the field, the last 2 seasons.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If that's truly the case, then we need to gut this team from top to bottom because adding a couple of players isn't going to fix it.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But it's impossible to do that, and when you have this much talent on a team, I wouldn't be in favor of it, even if I have zero trust in them to win a title. I don't expect it to change, it's something about putting that uniform on, walking into that stadium. I want to be buried at Wrigley Field, I love it. But it would probably be better for the franchise to blow that up rather than having a firesale.

And about that, Soriano and Fukudome cannot be traded. Lee probably can't either, and he'd only allow a deal to like 2 teams it appears at this moment. We have too many long term contracts, and some pricey ones. Our core is going to be here for awhile, like it or not.