Minor League Roundup

[Runnys]

No matter whether we think he is ML caliber or not, can we really ignore the numbers he is putting up right now? We are going to need to make some roster moves. We are down two position players and a reliever right now. Bradley needs to be DL'ed, someone needs to come up when and if that happens. How can anyone make a legitimate case that that shouldn't be Fox?

[Runnys]

BTW, Kyler Burke batting almost .300 [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif[/img]

[Kid]

<!--quoteo(post=33201:date=Apr 26 2009, 12:10 AM:name=Runnys)-->QUOTE (Runnys @ Apr 26 2009, 12:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->No matter whether we think he is ML caliber or not, can we really ignore the numbers he is putting up right now? We are going to need to make some roster moves. We are down two position players and a reliever right now. Bradley needs to be DL'ed, someone needs to come up when and if that happens. How can anyone make a legitimate case that that shouldn't be Fox?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How can you make that case? Easy. We're down a 3rd baseman, a right fielder, and a relief pitcher. Where does a first baseman fit in there, especially when we've already got Hoffpauir?

[Runnys]

<!--quoteo(post=33203:date=Apr 25 2009, 11:14 PM:name=Kid)-->QUOTE (Kid @ Apr 25 2009, 11:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=33201:date=Apr 26 2009, 12:10 AM:name=Runnys)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Runnys @ Apr 26 2009, 12:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->No matter whether we think he is ML caliber or not, can we really ignore the numbers he is putting up right now? We are going to need to make some roster moves. We are down two position players and a reliever right now. Bradley needs to be DL'ed, someone needs to come up when and if that happens. How can anyone make a legitimate case that that shouldn't be Fox?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How can you make that case? Easy. We're down a 3rd baseman, a right fielder, and a relief pitcher. Where does a first baseman fit in there, especially when we've already got Hoffpauir?
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IIRC, Fox has taken balls in the OF. It isn't ideal, but the kid is raking right now. Lee looks terrible right now...give him a day off. Put Hoff in right and Fox at first for a game just to change things up. Also, I sure would like having Fox come off the bench as our right handed bat until we get healthy.

[kbwsb]

Geovany Soto-7 years in the minors
(and 6 of them were <i>real</i> mediocre)

[Ace]

<!--quoteo(post=33196:date=Apr 25 2009, 10:27 PM:name=Kid)-->QUOTE (Kid @ Apr 25 2009, 10:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=33195:date=Apr 25 2009, 10:25 PM:name=Ace)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ace @ Apr 25 2009, 10:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=33194:date=Apr 25 2009, 10:21 PM:name=Kid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid @ Apr 25 2009, 10:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=33192:date=Apr 25 2009, 10:14 PM:name=Ace)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ace @ Apr 25 2009, 10:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=33188:date=Apr 25 2009, 09:59 PM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ Apr 25 2009, 09:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=33184:date=Apr 25 2009, 08:48 PM:name=Ace)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ace @ Apr 25 2009, 08:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=33183:date=Apr 25 2009, 09:47 PM:name=Kid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid @ Apr 25 2009, 09:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->This is Jake Fox's 7th minor league season. He has appeared in 7 major league games. If that's not a career minor leaguer, I don't know what is.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Do you really think there aren't dozens of current Major Leaguers who spent 6+ seasons in the minor leagues? Because that's kind of the point you're making right there.
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7 years in the minors, after a college career, that went on to be good MLB players? I'd bet that number is extremely low.
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And by the way, it's currently 6 minor league years, not 7.

And if the question is find a starting-calibre major leaguer on a contender that spent the majority of 6 seasons in the minors after a college career... you don't have to look any further than both members of the starting middle infield for your very own team.

It happens.
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You're glossing over distinctions and you know it. This is Fox's 7th minor league season. If you're going to say it's been "6 years," then you can't say "well, it was 6 seasons for Theriot and Fontenot." That's being intellectually dishonest. Either it was 6 seasons for them & 7 seasons (and counting) for Fox or 5 years for them & 6 years (and counting) for Fox. Not 6 seasons for them & 6 years for Fox.

Second of all, it was in that 5th year/6th season that both became established major leaguers. That ship has sailed for Fox.
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Oh COME ON, dude. I bust out a ridiculous double-example that is right in all of our faces, and you're going to split hairs and say the ship has sailed on Fox because of ONE SEASON? Give me a break.
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Um yes. We're not talking about 100 years here. 1 year is a big difference.
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No, we're not talking about 100 years. What a bizarre and unnecessary exaggeration.

But we are talking about a total pre-MLB of almost 10. And we're talking about the entire population of MLB, and you are now indicating that a 10% difference in pre-MLB experience somehow *BOOM* magically makes a guy unable to become an adequate Major Leaguer. Be careful what star you hitch your wagon to, because in your effort to make your argument (one that I suspect you don't even passionately agree with - you're just good at making arguments), you're going down an absurd road.

I guess the Cubs should just release Fox now. I mean, once he crossed over from 6 years minor league experience to 7 years, he went from possible Major League starter a la Theriot and Fontenot, and instantly became a "career" minor leaguer who will never amount to squat.

[Kid]

<!--quoteo(post=33208:date=Apr 26 2009, 02:29 AM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ Apr 26 2009, 02:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Geovany Soto-7 years in the minors
(and 6 of them were <i>real</i> mediocre)<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Geovany Soto didn't play 3 years of college ball upon turning 18. He turned pro.

You will find plenty of examples of minor leaguers who played 7 seasons in the minors before becoming full time major leaguers. They just either turned pro straight out of high school or are foreign-born and might have been as young as 16.

You will find virtually no examples of players who played 3 seasons of college and then 7 seasons of minor league ball. That's 9 or 10 seasons of post-high school ball (depending on whether you count the year which includes the last season of college, which is played in full, and the first season of pro ball, which is usually spent in a short season league, meaning it is also played in full or close to it, as 1 or 2 seasons).

[Kid]

<!--quoteo(post=33205:date=Apr 26 2009, 12:18 AM:name=Runnys)-->QUOTE (Runnys @ Apr 26 2009, 12:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=33203:date=Apr 25 2009, 11:14 PM:name=Kid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid @ Apr 25 2009, 11:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=33201:date=Apr 26 2009, 12:10 AM:name=Runnys)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Runnys @ Apr 26 2009, 12:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->No matter whether we think he is ML caliber or not, can we really ignore the numbers he is putting up right now? We are going to need to make some roster moves. We are down two position players and a reliever right now. Bradley needs to be DL'ed, someone needs to come up when and if that happens. How can anyone make a legitimate case that that shouldn't be Fox?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How can you make that case? Easy. We're down a 3rd baseman, a right fielder, and a relief pitcher. Where does a first baseman fit in there, especially when we've already got Hoffpauir?
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IIRC, Fox has taken balls in the OF. It isn't ideal, but the kid is raking right now. Lee looks terrible right now...give him a day off. Put Hoff in right and Fox at first for a game just to change things up. Also, I sure would like having Fox come off the bench as our right handed bat until we get healthy.
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That's all well and good, but the problem is that, until Ramirez gets back, our backup options in the infield are to put Soriano at 2B or Koyie Hill at 3B.

I think if we're going to call somebody up, it should probably somebody that can play a middle IF position.

[Ace]

<!--quoteo(post=33214:date=Apr 26 2009, 09:21 AM:name=Kid)-->QUOTE (Kid @ Apr 26 2009, 09:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=33205:date=Apr 26 2009, 12:18 AM:name=Runnys)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Runnys @ Apr 26 2009, 12:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=33203:date=Apr 25 2009, 11:14 PM:name=Kid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid @ Apr 25 2009, 11:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=33201:date=Apr 26 2009, 12:10 AM:name=Runnys)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Runnys @ Apr 26 2009, 12:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->No matter whether we think he is ML caliber or not, can we really ignore the numbers he is putting up right now? We are going to need to make some roster moves. We are down two position players and a reliever right now. Bradley needs to be DL'ed, someone needs to come up when and if that happens. How can anyone make a legitimate case that that shouldn't be Fox?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How can you make that case? Easy. We're down a 3rd baseman, a right fielder, and a relief pitcher. Where does a first baseman fit in there, especially when we've already got Hoffpauir?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


IIRC, Fox has taken balls in the OF. It isn't ideal, but the kid is raking right now. Lee looks terrible right now...give him a day off. Put Hoff in right and Fox at first for a game just to change things up. Also, I sure would like having Fox come off the bench as our right handed bat until we get healthy.
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That's all well and good, but the problem is that, until Ramirez gets back, our backup options in the infield are to put Soriano at 2B or Koyie Hill at 3B.

I think if we're going to call somebody up, it should probably somebody that can play a middle IF position.
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Or as Ruby often points out - we have like 5 or 6 open spots on the 40-man. There's got to be someone outside the organization who is still unsigned that could be a backup.

[Scarey]

I'm not sure if it's a good idea or not to throw my thoughts into this conversation, but isn't it fair to say that Fox has been a minor leaguer for so long for his defense? They tried for so long to fit him in at several defensive positions and he has struggled. Ace has repeatedly mentioned that Fox's defense would be a major flaw. He is strictly in favor of his offense and for that I don't think you guys can merely write off the idea of Fox playing with the big league club because he's going into his 7th MiLB season.

[ruby23]

<!--quoteo(post=33218:date=Apr 26 2009, 09:38 AM:name=Scarey)-->QUOTE (Scarey @ Apr 26 2009, 09:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I'm not sure if it's a good idea or not to throw my thoughts into this conversation, but isn't it fair to say that Fox has been a minor leaguer for so long for his defense? They tried for so long to fit him in at several defensive positions and he has struggled. Ace has repeatedly mentioned that Fox's defense would be a major flaw. He is strictly in favor of his offense and for that I don't think you guys can merely write off the idea of Fox playing with the big league club because he's going into his 7th MiLB season.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
When you play in the NL, hiding a guy with the defensive skills that Fox has is almost impossible. He's also taken steps backwards in his minor league career, going from AA to AAA and then sent back to AA due to poor offensive performance. Maybe he's figured it out offensively, that's certainly possible. However, in the NL and on the Cubs in particular, having a guy that's only real skill would be as a right handed pinch hitter, is pretty much useless.

[Scarey]

<!--quoteo(post=33219:date=Apr 26 2009, 09:51 AM:name=ruby23)-->QUOTE (ruby23 @ Apr 26 2009, 09:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->He's also taken steps backwards in his minor league career, going from AA to AAA and then <b>sent back to AA due to poor offensive performance. </b><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Are you making the assumption that he was demoted due to poor offensive performance because of his poor numbers in AAA last year? Because I'm fairly certain I remember him being demoted to work on his outfield defense at AA. There was such a huge contingent of outfielders at AAA (Pie, Murton, Patterson, Kroeger, Torres) that he needed to go down to AA to get regular reps in the outfield.

[ruby23]

<!--quoteo(post=33222:date=Apr 26 2009, 09:59 AM:name=Scarey)-->QUOTE (Scarey @ Apr 26 2009, 09:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=33219:date=Apr 26 2009, 09:51 AM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ Apr 26 2009, 09:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->He's also taken steps backwards in his minor league career, going from AA to AAA and then <b>sent back to AA due to poor offensive performance. </b><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Are you making the assumption that he was demoted due to poor offensive performance because of his poor numbers in AAA last year? Because I'm fairly certain I remember him being demoted to work on his defense at AA.
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That's not what happened, it was due to poor performance.

[ruby23]

If that list of players is holding you back, what makes you think you can be a productive MLBer?

[ruby23]

He was a 1b last year.