Cubs-Sox Week

[hPOD]

<!--quoteo(post=46930:date=Jun 29 2009, 08:55 AM:name=vitaminB)-->QUOTE (vitaminB @ Jun 29 2009, 08:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I have no problems with Ozzie. He just doesn't filter himself like other professionals in sports do. I find it refreshing.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

That's how I feel.

[vitaminB]

<!--quoteo(post=46931:date=Jun 29 2009, 09:58 AM:name=hPOD)-->QUOTE (hPOD @ Jun 29 2009, 09:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=46930:date=Jun 29 2009, 08:55 AM:name=vitaminB)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (vitaminB @ Jun 29 2009, 08:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I have no problems with Ozzie. He just doesn't filter himself like other professionals in sports do. I find it refreshing.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

That's how I feel.
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Oh, I still think you're a douche, though.

[hPOD]

<!--quoteo(post=46932:date=Jun 29 2009, 08:59 AM:name=vitaminB)-->QUOTE (vitaminB @ Jun 29 2009, 08:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=46931:date=Jun 29 2009, 09:58 AM:name=hPOD)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (hPOD @ Jun 29 2009, 09:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=46930:date=Jun 29 2009, 08:55 AM:name=vitaminB)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (vitaminB @ Jun 29 2009, 08:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I have no problems with Ozzie. He just doesn't filter himself like other professionals in sports do. I find it refreshing.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

That's how I feel.
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Oh, I still think you're a douche, though.
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That's fair, because I think you're a douche, too.

[Butcher]

Do Cubs fans care more about the White Sox since 2005? Sure. Want to know why? Every Sox fan on the planet has gone out of their way to rub it in Cubs fans faces at every given opportunity.

It isn't remotely the same, hPod, and I think you know it.

Here's where the basic difference lies. The Sox:
- owner
- GM
- manager
- TV play-by-play guy
- players (Buehrle, Danks, AJ, Rowand, Swisher)
- ad campaigns

have all, unprovoked, talked shit about the Cubs. Does it go the other way? Absolutely not. Think that a large part of Sox culture is Cubs-hating? Absolutely. If you think otherwise, you're fooling yourself. You may very well be one of the noble and true ones, hPod, but you're part of the minority.

[hPOD]

<!--quoteo(post=46934:date=Jun 29 2009, 09:07 AM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Jun 29 2009, 09:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Do Cubs fans care more about the White Sox since 2005? Sure. Want to know why? Every Sox fan on the planet has gone out of their way to rub it in Cubs fans faces at every given opportunity.

It isn't remotely the same, hPod, and I think you know it.

Here's where the basic difference lies. The Sox:
- owner
- GM
- manager
- TV play-by-play guy
- players (Buehrle, Danks, AJ, Rowand, Swisher)
- ad campaigns

have all, unprovoked, talked shit about the Cubs. Does it go the other way? Absolutely not. Think that a large part of Sox culture is Cubs-hating? Absolutely. If you think otherwise, you're fooling yourself. You may very well be one of the noble and true ones, hPod, but you're part of the minority.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I think to some degree, you're absolutely correct. I won't act as if it's not a known part of White Sox culture, as it's embraced by the team. What I'm saying is that Cubs fans are becoming increasingly like this, too, I've witnessed it first hand on quite a few occasions. I was the a rooftop game last week, the game where the White Sox lost in the 8th/9th innings, and believe me, I got my fair share. Now a few of them were only ribbing me in good fun, I get that, but there was a few that were just taking it to the douche level, but I don't say all Cubs fans are like this, as I know they aren't.

When it comes to the players, keep in mind Buehrle grew up a Cardinals fan, so you'd expect that from him. Ozzie played with the Sox for almost his entire career and hates the fact that the Cubs overshadow the Sox. I don't recall Rowand ever saying much or being disrespectful of the Cubs. Swisher was a clown who does this sort of thing no matter where he goes, and Danks only said he thinks the facility is a pile of shit, and he isn't wrong, if he said more than that I'm not aware of it...and I'd venture to guess he's doing it because he thinks he's going to be on the Sox for a long, long time and wants to play to the fans.

The point I was trying to make wasn't that I'm in denial that the Sox are like this -- I know they are, and I think it's retarded -- the point I'm making is, that as the years go on, the Cubs fanbase is becoming more and more like this, too.

[rok]

I find this entire discussion tiresome. I'm to the point now where arguing is futile. Most Sox fans, even the best of them, will never admit that they hate us more than they like their own team, though it's painfully obvious. And hPOD, don't waste your time defending the small minority of Sox fans who may think or act like you say. It doesn't wash here, and you aren't going to convince anyone otherwise.

[hPOD]

<!--quoteo(post=46937:date=Jun 29 2009, 09:19 AM:name=rok)-->QUOTE (rok @ Jun 29 2009, 09:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I find this entire discussion tiresome. I'm to the point now where arguing is futile. Most Sox fans, even the best of them, will never admit that they hate us more than they like their own team, though it's painfully obvious. And hPOD, don't waste your time defending the small minority of Sox fans who may think or act like you say. It doesn't wash here, and you aren't going to convince anyone otherwise.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

See, rok, I'm not trying to do that.

I'm outright saying I KNOW that Sox fans are like this -- I find it annoying, and I don't get it. I cited the example earlier of losing to the Twins, but then chanting 'Cubs Suck'...I just don't understand it, I never will. But, what I've noticed is that there is a growing sector of Cubs fans that are beginning to act like this, too, and this sector is growing by the year.

That's all I'm saying. Let's not continue to act like this is still a one sided affair, it was...but it's not anymore.

[rok]

<!--quoteo(post=46938:date=Jun 29 2009, 09:23 AM:name=hPOD)-->QUOTE (hPOD @ Jun 29 2009, 09:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=46937:date=Jun 29 2009, 09:19 AM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ Jun 29 2009, 09:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I find this entire discussion tiresome. I'm to the point now where arguing is futile. Most Sox fans, even the best of them, will never admit that they hate us more than they like their own team, though it's painfully obvious. And hPOD, don't waste your time defending the small minority of Sox fans who may think or act like you say. It doesn't wash here, and you aren't going to convince anyone otherwise.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

See, rok, I'm not trying to do that.

I'm outright saying I KNOW that Sox fans are like this -- I find it annoying, and I don't get it. I cited the example earlier of losing to the Twins, but then chanting 'Cubs Suck'...I just don't understand it, I never will. But, what I've noticed is that there is a growing sector of Cubs fans that are beginning to act like this, too, and this sector is growing by the year.

That's all I'm saying. Let's not continue to act like this is still a one sided affair, it was...but it's not anymore.
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Ever since 2005 it isn't one-sided anymore, that I will admit, but let's not pretend that one side doesn't instigate things more than the other. Just listen to people in the Sox organization try to stir the pot over and over again. I don't hear anyone from the Cubs organization ever do that. And the fans eat it up.

This discussion is not going to resolve that.

[Butcher]

<!--quoteo(post=46938:date=Jun 29 2009, 09:23 AM:name=hPOD)-->QUOTE (hPOD @ Jun 29 2009, 09:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=46937:date=Jun 29 2009, 09:19 AM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ Jun 29 2009, 09:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I find this entire discussion tiresome. I'm to the point now where arguing is futile. Most Sox fans, even the best of them, will never admit that they hate us more than they like their own team, though it's painfully obvious. And hPOD, don't waste your time defending the small minority of Sox fans who may think or act like you say. It doesn't wash here, and you aren't going to convince anyone otherwise.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

See, rok, I'm not trying to do that.

I'm outright saying I KNOW that Sox fans are like this -- I find it annoying, and I don't get it. I cited the example earlier of losing to the Twins, but then chanting 'Cubs Suck'...I just don't understand it, I never will. But, what I've noticed is that there is a growing sector of Cubs fans that are beginning to act like this, too, and this sector is growing by the year.

That's all I'm saying. Let's not continue to act like this is still a one sided affair, it was...but it's not anymore.
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When your owner, GM, manager, etc., etc., etc., all attack the team and fanbase you love, do you expect Cubs fans not to respond? I'm not excusing douchey behavior -- I'd love it if all Cubs fans (including myself) would just rise above the fray. But it's hard when the team on the other side of town constantly has you in their crosshairs.

Yes, Cubs fans have become increasingly more douchey. It started in 2003. It got worse in 2005. It has reached fever pitch this season. But don't pretend that it isn't lopsided, hPod. It is absolutely lopsided.

The day Ricketts, Hendry, Piniella, Zambrano (name some other random players), Len Kasper, and the Cubs marketing machine all start trashing the Sox, come talk to me. Until that day, you don't have a leg to stand on in this discussion.

[hPOD]

I'm not acting like it's not a lopsided affair, I know it is. I don't excuse Sox fans for being idiots, and I'm not going to excuse Cubs fans, either. I just find it ridiculous on both sides of the fence, all I'm saying is that I've noticed this contingent of Cubs fans growing by the year.\

Oh, and edit: I'm not really trying to "resolve" anything via this discussion, but that doesn't mean it cannot be discussed in an interesting/fun way. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif[/img]

I find discussions rarely change opinions or sway people one way or the other, but that doesn't mean hearing from the other side doesn't add something to it.

[BT]

But hPOD, don't you see the difference between the examples we are providing, and yours? In our example, the manager of a team, the guy who is supposed to represent the team in a professional fashion, ripping the fans of another team. In your example, guys are making fun of fans of the team that they are playing THAT DAY. The ribbing you encountered happens in every park, every day. The manager mocking fans from another team pretty much doesn't EVER happen.

[cherp]

<!--quoteo(post=46913:date=Jun 29 2009, 08:08 AM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Jun 29 2009, 08:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Not to mention, the whole "Wrigley is the reason the Cubs draw so well" argument falls apart when you see Cubs fans fill all of the opposing teams' stadiums.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Chicagoans are all over the country. It's not a surprise that we put a lot of people in seats in other parks.

I don't know for sure Butch...Do you think this team would draw 3mm+ if the park were in Schaumburg or Arlington Heights? Would we still see people come without the neighborhood/bars?

The first few years would sell every ticket and then some. The die hards would always come for sure. But how long would that hold? I just don't know.

[Butcher]

<!--quoteo(post=46946:date=Jun 29 2009, 09:47 AM:name=cherp)-->QUOTE (cherp @ Jun 29 2009, 09:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=46913:date=Jun 29 2009, 08:08 AM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Jun 29 2009, 08:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Not to mention, the whole "Wrigley is the reason the Cubs draw so well" argument falls apart when you see Cubs fans fill all of the opposing teams' stadiums.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Chicagoans are all over the country. It's not a surprise that we put a lot of people in seats in other parks.

I don't know for sure Butch...Do you think this team would draw 3mm+ if the park were in Schaumburg or Arlington Heights? Would we still see people come without the neighborhood/bars?

The first few years would sell every ticket and then some. The die hards would always come for sure. But how long would that hold? I just don't know.
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It isn't a fair question, though. Because there would be a HUGE backlash if the Cubs were moved to some random suburb outside of Chicago. It would piss off a whole lot of die-hard Cubs fans, including myself.

The fair question would be is, "If Wrigley was torn down and a new stadium built in its place (or close by), would the Cubs still draw 3mm+ every season?"

[cherp]

<!--quoteo(post=46944:date=Jun 29 2009, 09:42 AM:name=BT)-->QUOTE (BT @ Jun 29 2009, 09:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->But hPOD, don't you see the difference between the examples we are providing, and yours? In our example, the manager of a team, the guy who is supposed to represent the team in a professional fashion, ripping the fans of another team. In your example, guys are making fun of fans of the team that they are playing THAT DAY. The ribbing you encountered happens in every park, every day. The manager mocking fans from another team pretty much doesn't EVER happen.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Ozzie clearly doesn't follow any sort of norms. That's for sure. It seems to me like he enjoys pissing people like you off BT. It seems like he says this for effect. Either that - or he has incurable diaherria of the mouth.

Either way, nobody will muzzle him. He barely toned it down after Reinsdorf and Williams tore into him after the Mariotti/homo issue.

If he were managing the Twins, I'd hate him.

[hPOD]

<!--quoteo(post=46944:date=Jun 29 2009, 09:42 AM:name=BT)-->QUOTE (BT @ Jun 29 2009, 09:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->But hPOD, don't you see the difference between the examples we are providing, and yours? In our example, the manager of a team, the guy who is supposed to represent the team in a professional fashion, ripping the fans of another team. In your example, guys are making fun of fans of the team that they are playing THAT DAY. The ribbing you encountered happens in every park, every day. The manager mocking fans from another team pretty much doesn't EVER happen.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Oh I see the difference, I was only making an observation that slowly but surely this exact type of thing is creeping into the Cubs fan base. My thought is that eventually, if this section of the fan base gets big enough, that the organization will start playing to them. If the Cubs owners realize they can use it to create buzz or what have you during bad times or during times in which they can use the extra press, whether it be positive or negative, they will.

I remember back in the day before the Sox organization jumped onto this bandwagon of headline making garbage that the fans were the culprits of this Cubs hatred -- now it's the organization, too. It's business, so why wouldn't they latch onto it if it makes a stronger connection with their fans? It's just a matter of time for the Cubs, if that contingent of the Cubs fan base continues to grow, that the organization will jump on board, too.