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<!--quoteo(post=86484:date=Apr 6 2010, 09:23 AM:name=rok)-->QUOTE (rok @ Apr 6 2010, 09:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=86477:date=Apr 6 2010, 07:33 AM:name=Lance)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lance @ Apr 6 2010, 07:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=86472:date=Apr 6 2010, 03:03 AM:name=MrSheps)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MrSheps @ Apr 6 2010, 03:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->It would be an insult to bird shit to line a cage with the Washington Times. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif[/img]<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nobody can say you're not consistent with your liberal views.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You have to admit though, that the Moonies are a wacko bunch. I just can't take that paper seriously for that connection alone.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
?????
Are you sure that your not mixing the New York Times & The Washington Times up with one another? I can see the NY Times having more of a love affair with the Moonies.
Anna
SONS OF IVY
Is this really the FRIENDLY CONFINES?
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<!--quoteo(post=86486:date=Apr 6 2010, 08:42 AM:name=Anna2010)-->QUOTE (Anna2010 @ Apr 6 2010, 08:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=86484:date=Apr 6 2010, 09:23 AM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ Apr 6 2010, 09:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=86477:date=Apr 6 2010, 07:33 AM:name=Lance)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lance @ Apr 6 2010, 07:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=86472:date=Apr 6 2010, 03:03 AM:name=MrSheps)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MrSheps @ Apr 6 2010, 03:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->It would be an insult to bird shit to line a cage with the Washington Times. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif[/img]<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nobody can say you're not consistent with your liberal views.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You have to admit though, that the Moonies are a wacko bunch. I just can't take that paper seriously for that connection alone.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
?????
Are you sure that your not mixing the New York Times & The Washington Times up with one another? I can see the NY Times having more of a love affair with the Moonies.
Anna
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sorry to rain on your parade but I hope that you are aware that News World Communications who publishes the Washington Times was created and is owned by Reverend Sun Myung Moon's Unification Church.
My understanding is that the original purpose of the paper was to "answer" the stories on the Moonie church that the Washington Post ran in the early 80's.
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<!--quoteo(post=86487:date=Apr 6 2010, 09:50 AM:name=1060Ivy)-->QUOTE (1060Ivy @ Apr 6 2010, 09:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=86486:date=Apr 6 2010, 08:42 AM:name=Anna2010)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Anna2010 @ Apr 6 2010, 08:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=86484:date=Apr 6 2010, 09:23 AM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ Apr 6 2010, 09:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=86477:date=Apr 6 2010, 07:33 AM:name=Lance)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lance @ Apr 6 2010, 07:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=86472:date=Apr 6 2010, 03:03 AM:name=MrSheps)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MrSheps @ Apr 6 2010, 03:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->It would be an insult to bird shit to line a cage with the Washington Times. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif[/img]<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nobody can say you're not consistent with your liberal views.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You have to admit though, that the Moonies are a wacko bunch. I just can't take that paper seriously for that connection alone.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
?????
Are you sure that your not mixing the New York Times & The Washington Times up with one another? I can see the NY Times having more of a love affair with the Moonies.
Anna
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sorry to rain on your parade but I hope that you are aware that News World Communications who publishes the Washington Times was created and is owned by Reverend Sun Myung Moon's Unification Church.
My understanding is that the original purpose of the paper was to "answer" the stories on the Moonie church that the Washington Post ran in the early 80's.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I did not know that.
I'm 100% fine with this. I'm just glad there's an actual plan in place that isn't, "Let's load up on retreads and hope we get lucky." I'm a little tired of that plan.
Butcher
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<!--quoteo(post=86488:date=Apr 6 2010, 08:54 AM:name=Lance)-->QUOTE (Lance @ Apr 6 2010, 08:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=86487:date=Apr 6 2010, 09:50 AM:name=1060Ivy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (1060Ivy @ Apr 6 2010, 09:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=86486:date=Apr 6 2010, 08:42 AM:name=Anna2010)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Anna2010 @ Apr 6 2010, 08:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=86484:date=Apr 6 2010, 09:23 AM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ Apr 6 2010, 09:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=86477:date=Apr 6 2010, 07:33 AM:name=Lance)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lance @ Apr 6 2010, 07:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=86472:date=Apr 6 2010, 03:03 AM:name=MrSheps)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MrSheps @ Apr 6 2010, 03:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->It would be an insult to bird shit to line a cage with the Washington Times. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif[/img]<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nobody can say you're not consistent with your liberal views.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You have to admit though, that the Moonies are a wacko bunch. I just can't take that paper seriously for that connection alone.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
?????
Are you sure that your not mixing the New York Times & The Washington Times up with one another? I can see the NY Times having more of a love affair with the Moonies.
Anna
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sorry to rain on your parade but I hope that you are aware that News World Communications who publishes the Washington Times was created and is owned by Reverend Sun Myung Moon's Unification Church.
My understanding is that the original purpose of the paper was to "answer" the stories on the Moonie church that the Washington Post ran in the early 80's.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I did not know that.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And as referenced earlier, Moon owns United Press International too. UPI hasn't been a legitimate wire service for many years now.
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<!--quoteo(post=86490:date=Apr 6 2010, 09:09 AM:name=jstraw)-->QUOTE (jstraw @ Apr 6 2010, 09:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=86488:date=Apr 6 2010, 08:54 AM:name=Lance)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lance @ Apr 6 2010, 08:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=86487:date=Apr 6 2010, 09:50 AM:name=1060Ivy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (1060Ivy @ Apr 6 2010, 09:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=86486:date=Apr 6 2010, 08:42 AM:name=Anna2010)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Anna2010 @ Apr 6 2010, 08:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=86484:date=Apr 6 2010, 09:23 AM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ Apr 6 2010, 09:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=86477:date=Apr 6 2010, 07:33 AM:name=Lance)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lance @ Apr 6 2010, 07:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=86472:date=Apr 6 2010, 03:03 AM:name=MrSheps)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MrSheps @ Apr 6 2010, 03:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->It would be an insult to bird shit to line a cage with the Washington Times. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif[/img]<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nobody can say you're not consistent with your liberal views.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You have to admit though, that the Moonies are a wacko bunch. I just can't take that paper seriously for that connection alone.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
?????
Are you sure that your not mixing the New York Times & The Washington Times up with one another? I can see the NY Times having more of a love affair with the Moonies.
Anna
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sorry to rain on your parade but I hope that you are aware that News World Communications who publishes the Washington Times was created and is owned by Reverend Sun Myung Moon's Unification Church.
My understanding is that the original purpose of the paper was to "answer" the stories on the Moonie church that the Washington Post ran in the early 80's.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I did not know that.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And as referenced earlier, Moon owns United Press International too. UPI hasn't been a legitimate wire service for many years now.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News_World_Communications
Yep, I've known about this for years. I just can't overlook the fact that he owns both of those media operations. In this case, it isn't even about politics, it is about sanity.
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I'm still trying to figure out how baseball salaries have anything to do with the liberal/conservative argument.
Athletes get paid based on the economy of their business. It's a free market—for the most part—where wages are dictated by one's value to the organization.
If you are such a bleeding heart conservative Anna, then you should embrace this idea. And likewise, you should take issue with minimum wage laws that force places like Jewel to pay a 16 year old grocery bagger more than 8.00/hr.
"Last year, I was sort of a kid and I was a little scared, I ain't scared any more."
Quote:- Hank Aaron
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In my lifetime, baseball salaries are the only thing I've seen where the dollar amounts just keep going up, up ,up, year after year, decade after decade. Even Microsoft stock occasionally takes a tumble (specifically, whenever I am heavily invested in it), but baseball's never did.
So, in the middle of a deep recession, and in a world where a backup shortstop hitting .220 can pull down $5 million per annum, a correction seemed somewhat inevitable.
There's nothing better than to realize that the good things about youth don't end with youth itself. It's a matter of realizing that life can be renewed every day you get out of bed without baggage. It's tough to get there, but it's better than the dark thoughts. -Lance
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<!--quoteo(post=86533:date=Apr 6 2010, 01:59 PM:name=BackyardLegend)-->QUOTE (BackyardLegend @ Apr 6 2010, 01:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I'm still trying to figure out how baseball salaries have anything to do with the liberal/conservative argument.
Athletes get paid based on the economy of their business. It's a free market—for the most part—where wages are dictated by one's value to the organization.
If you are such a bleeding heart conservative Anna, then you should embrace this idea. And likewise, you should take issue with minimum wage laws that force places like Jewel to pay a 16 year old grocery bagger more than 8.00/hr.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Liberal/Conservative has absolutely nothing to do with it. This is about a megalomaniacal delusional madman (Moon) controlling a newspaper (Wash Times) and news wire service (UPI) that most Americans are unaware of. Newspapers make mistakes all the time, even the more credible, middle of the road kind, which have become an endangered species these days.
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<!--quoteo(post=86533:date=Apr 6 2010, 02:59 PM:name=BackyardLegend)-->QUOTE (BackyardLegend @ Apr 6 2010, 02:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I'm still trying to figure out how baseball salaries have anything to do with the liberal/conservative argument.
Athletes get paid based on the economy of their business. It's a free market—for the most part—where wages are dictated by one's value to the organization.
If you are such a bleeding heart conservative Anna, then you should embrace this idea. And likewise, you should take issue with minimum wage laws that force places like Jewel to pay a 16 year old grocery bagger more than 8.00/hr.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What the hell does that have to do with anything?
I'm 100% fine with this. I'm just glad there's an actual plan in place that isn't, "Let's load up on retreads and hope we get lucky." I'm a little tired of that plan.
Butcher
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<!--quoteo(post=86597:date=Apr 6 2010, 06:30 PM:name=Lance)-->QUOTE (Lance @ Apr 6 2010, 06:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=86533:date=Apr 6 2010, 02:59 PM:name=BackyardLegend)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BackyardLegend @ Apr 6 2010, 02:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I'm still trying to figure out how baseball salaries have anything to do with the liberal/conservative argument.
Athletes get paid based on the economy of their business. It's a free market—for the most part—where wages are dictated by one's value to the organization.
If you are such a bleeding heart conservative Anna, then you should embrace this idea. And likewise, you should take issue with minimum wage laws that force places like Jewel to pay a 16 year old grocery bagger more than 8.00/hr.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What the hell does that have to do with anything?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think the point was, if someone is a traditional, fiscal, free-market conservative (which frankly, I haven't paid any attention to whether Anna is or not), it's weird to suggest that anyone selling their services for the value that market places upon said services, is overpaid.
This is quite separate from whether we, as a society overvalue the ballplayers compared to say, schoolteachers.
Professional sports shits money. If you think ballplayers (and owners) are overpaid, stop buying tickets and t-shirts and Budweiser and Gillette.
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<!--quoteo(post=86600:date=Apr 6 2010, 06:31 PM:name=jstraw)-->QUOTE (jstraw @ Apr 6 2010, 06:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=86597:date=Apr 6 2010, 06:30 PM:name=Lance)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lance @ Apr 6 2010, 06:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=86533:date=Apr 6 2010, 02:59 PM:name=BackyardLegend)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BackyardLegend @ Apr 6 2010, 02:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I'm still trying to figure out how baseball salaries have anything to do with the liberal/conservative argument.
Athletes get paid based on the economy of their business. It's a free market—for the most part—where wages are dictated by one's value to the organization.
If you are such a bleeding heart conservative Anna, then you should embrace this idea. And likewise, you should take issue with minimum wage laws that force places like Jewel to pay a 16 year old grocery bagger more than 8.00/hr.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What the hell does that have to do with anything?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think the point was, if someone is a traditional, fiscal, free-market conservative (which frankly, I haven't paid any attention to whether Anna is or not), it's weird to suggest that anyone selling their services for the value that market places upon said services, is overpaid.
This is quite separate from whether we, as a society overvalue the ballplayers compared to say, schoolteachers.
Professional sports shits money. If you think ballplayers (and owners) are overpaid, stop buying tickets and t-shirts and Budweiser and Gillette.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The ownership of a news organization, with rare exception, has minimal day-to-day influence over it's copy and its writers. There are glaring exceptions, of course, with MSNBC being leftie-leaning news and FOX being right-wing (often broadcasting these days as a Tea Party commercial). The Moonies owning controlling interest in the Washington Post didn't help or hurt the paper's ability to break open the Watergate Scandal, for example. Anyway, that's all very tangent to the topic at hand, being player salaries.
While I am not a fan of players making ridiculous money as role players or as bullpen filler, I think a quite valid argument can be made for collusion, should the Players' Association chose to go that route. I can't remember in my lifetime players like Jermaine Dye (25+ HR) or Hank Blalock (20+ HR), for 2 examples, not finding a roster spot SOMEWHERE. I can't remember an off-season where a relatively small group of players got FA pay increases, while the majority either took decreases or had to sign minor league deals. I'm not going to argue supply-side economics, just saying that I find it peculiar that 30 teams, without a notable exception, all followed this pattern. Even Boston, who did sign Lackey, Beltre, Cameron, and Scutaro, still did so below the cost of their combined 2009 salaries. If it happens again after this season, I think we'll be seeing a major suit brought up by the Players' Association, and there is clearly grounds for legal investigation (recession or no). The "market corrections" argument may be valid to a point, but if one looks at the Yankees (coming off of a profitable WS title season) replacing Damon with Winn/Gardner and Matsui with Johnson, clearly there is more going on than just market corrections there.
"Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods." Albert Einstein
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<!--quoteo(post=86622:date=Apr 7 2010, 03:36 AM:name=mindbodyspirit)-->QUOTE (mindbodyspirit @ Apr 7 2010, 03:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->The ownership of a news organization, with rare exception, has minimal day-to-day influence over it's copy and its writers. There are glaring exceptions, of course, with MSNBC being leftie-leaning news and FOX being right-wing (often broadcasting these days as a Tea Party commercial).<b> The Moonies owning controlling interest in the Washington Post didn't help or hurt the paper's ability to break open the Watergate Scandal, for example. </b><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The Moonies don't own the Washington Post. They own the Washington Times which wasn't created until the 1980s. Otherwise, The Washington Times didn't break the Watergate Scandal.
Considering the rationale for the paper was to answer stories in the Washington Post, such as Watergate, this ownership group has considerable control over editorial content. You can included them in the Fox News and MSNBC category.
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<!--quoteo(post=86622:date=Apr 7 2010, 04:36 AM:name=mindbodyspirit)-->QUOTE (mindbodyspirit @ Apr 7 2010, 04:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->While I am not a fan of players making ridiculous money as role players or as bullpen filler, I think a quite valid argument can be made for collusion, should the Players' Association chose to go that route. I can't remember in my lifetime players like Jermaine Dye (25+ HR) or Hank Blalock (20+ HR), for 2 examples, not finding a roster spot SOMEWHERE. I can't remember an off-season where a relatively small group of players got FA pay increases, while the majority either took decreases or had to sign minor league deals. I'm not going to argue supply-side economics, just saying that I find it peculiar that 30 teams, without a notable exception, all followed this pattern. Even Boston, who did sign Lackey, Beltre, Cameron, and Scutaro, still did so below the cost of their combined 2009 salaries. If it happens again after this season, I think we'll be seeing a major suit brought up by the Players' Association, and there is clearly grounds for legal investigation (recession or no). The "market corrections" argument may be valid to a point, but if one looks at the Yankees (coming off of a profitable WS title season) replacing Damon with Winn/Gardner and Matsui with Johnson, clearly there is more going on than just market corrections there.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That is quite the conspiracy theory. I don't believe it.
I'm 100% fine with this. I'm just glad there's an actual plan in place that isn't, "Let's load up on retreads and hope we get lucky." I'm a little tired of that plan.
Butcher
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<!--quoteo(post=86622:date=Apr 7 2010, 03:36 AM:name=mindbodyspirit)-->QUOTE (mindbodyspirit @ Apr 7 2010, 03:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->While I am not a fan of players making ridiculous money as role players or as bullpen filler, I think a quite valid argument can be made for collusion, should the Players' Association chose to go that route. I can't remember in my lifetime players like Jermaine Dye (25+ HR) or Hank Blalock (20+ HR), for 2 examples, not finding a roster spot SOMEWHERE. I can't remember an off-season where a relatively small group of players got FA pay increases, while the majority either took decreases or had to sign minor league deals. I'm not going to argue supply-side economics, just saying that I find it peculiar that 30 teams, without a notable exception, all followed this pattern. Even Boston, who did sign Lackey, Beltre, Cameron, and Scutaro, still did so below the cost of their combined 2009 salaries. If it happens again after this season, I think we'll be seeing a major suit brought up by the Players' Association, and there is clearly grounds for legal investigation (recession or no). The "market corrections" argument may be valid to a point, but if one looks at the Yankees (coming off of a profitable WS title season) replacing Damon with Winn/Gardner and Matsui with Johnson, clearly there is more going on than just market corrections there.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My understanding is that collusion is extremely difficult to prove. Look at the Dye example. Dye was supposedly offered a deal but turned it down so it would be difficult to argue that he was "locked out" by the league.
In addition, owners can make the case regarding the increase in value/importance of defensive skills as a counter the collision argument. Could the increase in attention on defensive skills be one rationale as why some players weren't able to get roster sports?
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<!--quoteo(post=86597:date=Apr 6 2010, 06:30 PM:name=Lance)-->QUOTE (Lance @ Apr 6 2010, 06:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=86533:date=Apr 6 2010, 02:59 PM:name=BackyardLegend)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BackyardLegend @ Apr 6 2010, 02:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I'm still trying to figure out how baseball salaries have anything to do with the liberal/conservative argument.
Athletes get paid based on the economy of their business. It's a free market—for the most part—where wages are dictated by one's value to the organization.
If you are such a bleeding heart conservative Anna, then you should embrace this idea. And likewise, you should take issue with minimum wage laws that force places like Jewel to pay a 16 year old grocery bagger more than 8.00/hr.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What the hell does that have to do with anything?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Anna dropped the C-word in her 2nd reply, which to me seemed to imply that this was an argument about libs and cons.
"Last year, I was sort of a kid and I was a little scared, I ain't scared any more."
Quote:- Hank Aaron
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