Peavy Talk

[coolpoppa]

I see payton!!!!

[Butcher]

<!--quoteo(post=1196:date=Dec 4 2008, 07:50 AM:name=Quinn)-->QUOTE (Quinn @ Dec 4 2008, 07:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I wasn't around for the LA series. Do you guys not think that having no lefties in our lineup killed us? The face we didn't see one LHP during the entire series?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Our pitching and defense killed us. You can't expect to out-slug teams in the postseason. You score 2, 3, or maybe 4 runs a game and you rely on your pitching and defense to keep the other team's offense down.

Dempster shat the bed in game 1 and set the tone. Our defense blew ass in game 2.

Losing the first two games at home in a 5 game series, and it was basically over.

We were the best team in the National League last year. I don't know that we really need to add much, to be honest.

[rok]

Neither Lilly or any of our top 4 SPs is going anywhere.

[Captain]

[quote] The Cubs and Padres "have a basic framework in place" for a Jake Peavy deal built around third baseman Josh Vitters. Things may pick up after the Cubs' ownership situation is resolved. [quote]



From Buster Olney.

[rok]

<!--quoteo(post=1248:date=Dec 4 2008, 11:37 AM:name=Captain)-->QUOTE (Captain @ Dec 4 2008, 11:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <!--quotec--> The Cubs and Padres "have a basic framework in place" for a Jake Peavy deal built around third baseman Josh Vitters. Things may pick up after the Cubs' ownership situation is resolved.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->



From Buster Olney.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So beginning of 2009? Sweet. Now Hendry needs to still focus on a RF in the meantime.

[Runnys]

I know that if Vitters is the main piece in a deal for Peavy you have to do it, however, I think we are going to regret trading Vitters if we do make a deal.

BTW Quinn....be glad you weren't around for the Cubs playoff games, they were terrible. Game 2 was the worst defense I had seen by a MLB club in quite a long time.

[ruby23]

<!--quoteo(post=1257:date=Dec 4 2008, 12:38 PM:name=Runnys)-->QUOTE (Runnys @ Dec 4 2008, 12:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I know that if Vitters is the main piece in a deal for Peavy you have to do it, however, I think we are going to regret trading Vitters if we do make a deal.

BTW Quinn....be glad you weren't around for the Cubs playoff games, they were terrible. Game 2 was the worst defense I had seen by a MLB club in quite a long time.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I still don't follow why the Padres would even want Vitters, they have 2 3B prospects that are MLB ready right now.

[rok]

<!--quoteo(post=1269:date=Dec 4 2008, 02:45 PM:name=ruby23)-->QUOTE (ruby23 @ Dec 4 2008, 02:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=1257:date=Dec 4 2008, 12:38 PM:name=Runnys)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Runnys @ Dec 4 2008, 12:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I know that if Vitters is the main piece in a deal for Peavy you have to do it, however, I think we are going to regret trading Vitters if we do make a deal.

BTW Quinn....be glad you weren't around for the Cubs playoff games, they were terrible. Game 2 was the worst defense I had seen by a MLB club in quite a long time.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I still don't follow why the Padres would even want Vitters, they have 2 3B prospects that are MLB ready right now.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I may be going out on a limb here, but isn't Vitters a pretty below average 3B and wasn't there already talk about moving him to LF at some point? Maybe the Pads don't see him as a 3B long term and just see value in his bat as long as he fits somewhere.

[twitterwoods]

Maybe Vitters pans out maybe he doesnt. You ask anyone here 3 or 4 years ago who'd they trade Pie for and he'd be called untouchable. While he's still got time to pan out, the window is closing on Pie. There are very few "can't miss" type prospects and I hardly call Vitters one. I'd trade a guy who hasn't done shit at the MLB level for a former Cy Young winner in a heartbeat.

[Clapp]

<!--quoteo(post=1242:date=Dec 4 2008, 11:09 AM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Dec 4 2008, 11:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=1196:date=Dec 4 2008, 07:50 AM:name=Quinn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Quinn @ Dec 4 2008, 07:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I wasn't around for the LA series. Do you guys not think that having no lefties in our lineup killed us? The face we didn't see one LHP during the entire series?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Our pitching and defense killed us. You can't expect to out-slug teams in the postseason. You score 2, 3, or maybe 4 runs a game and you rely on your pitching and defense to keep the other team's offense down.

Dempster shat the bed in game 1 and set the tone. Our defense blew ass in game 2.

Losing the first two games at home in a 5 game series, and it was basically over.

We were the best team in the National League last year. I don't know that we really need to add much, to be honest.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're seriously giving our offense a pass? Our offense is absolutely why we lost the series. Ramirez and Soriano are the main reasons for us losing, for the 2nd year in a row.

[Clapp]

<!--quoteo(post=1272:date=Dec 4 2008, 03:08 PM:name=twitterwoods)-->QUOTE (twitterwoods @ Dec 4 2008, 03:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Maybe Vitters pans out maybe he doesnt. You ask anyone here 3 or 4 years ago who'd they trade Pie for and he'd be called untouchable. While he's still got time to pan out, the window is closing on Pie. There are very few "can't miss" type prospects and I hardly call Vitters one. I'd trade a guy who hasn't done shit at the MLB level for a former Cy Young winner in a heartbeat.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Scouts laugh at our system, as do I. I don't want Peavy nearly as much as some do because he's far from a need, but I'd give up Viitters and Pie in a heartbeat. I'd rather give those guys up than guys like Marshall and Fontenot who are a key part of our team right now. I'm not thinking about 3-5 years from now.

[Butcher]

<!--quoteo(post=1273:date=Dec 4 2008, 03:50 PM:name=Clapp)-->QUOTE (Clapp @ Dec 4 2008, 03:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=1242:date=Dec 4 2008, 11:09 AM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Dec 4 2008, 11:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=1196:date=Dec 4 2008, 07:50 AM:name=Quinn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Quinn @ Dec 4 2008, 07:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I wasn't around for the LA series. Do you guys not think that having no lefties in our lineup killed us? The face we didn't see one LHP during the entire series?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Our pitching and defense killed us. You can't expect to out-slug teams in the postseason. You score 2, 3, or maybe 4 runs a game and you rely on your pitching and defense to keep the other team's offense down.

Dempster shat the bed in game 1 and set the tone. Our defense blew ass in game 2.

Losing the first two games at home in a 5 game series, and it was basically over.

We were the best team in the National League last year. I don't know that we really need to add much, to be honest.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're seriously giving our offense a pass? Our offense is absolutely why we lost the series. Ramirez and Soriano are the main reasons for us losing, for the 2nd year in a row.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't know that I'm giving them a pass, but the Dodgers tore apart our pitching and our defense failed us. We weren't going to outscore any team with any offense if we were giving up 10 or more runs a game. That isn't how you win the postseason. You're facing the best pitching in the league. You need to grind out a few runs and hope your pitching holds the other team to 1 or 2 runs.

Our offense blew, but the playoffs are usually low scoring affairs. So that wasn't surprising. What surprised me is that our starting pitching and defense sucked so bad.

[Clapp]

<!--quoteo(post=1279:date=Dec 4 2008, 05:14 PM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Dec 4 2008, 05:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=1273:date=Dec 4 2008, 03:50 PM:name=Clapp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Clapp @ Dec 4 2008, 03:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=1242:date=Dec 4 2008, 11:09 AM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Dec 4 2008, 11:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=1196:date=Dec 4 2008, 07:50 AM:name=Quinn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Quinn @ Dec 4 2008, 07:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I wasn't around for the LA series. Do you guys not think that having no lefties in our lineup killed us? The face we didn't see one LHP during the entire series?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Our pitching and defense killed us. You can't expect to out-slug teams in the postseason. You score 2, 3, or maybe 4 runs a game and you rely on your pitching and defense to keep the other team's offense down.

Dempster shat the bed in game 1 and set the tone. Our defense blew ass in game 2.

Losing the first two games at home in a 5 game series, and it was basically over.

We were the best team in the National League last year. I don't know that we really need to add much, to be honest.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're seriously giving our offense a pass? Our offense is absolutely why we lost the series. Ramirez and Soriano are the main reasons for us losing, for the 2nd year in a row.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't know that I'm giving them a pass, but the Dodgers tore apart our pitching and our defense failed us. We weren't going to outscore any team with any offense if we were giving up 10 or more runs a game. That isn't how you win the postseason. You're facing the best pitching in the league. You need to grind out a few runs and hope your pitching holds the other team to 1 or 2 runs.

Our offense blew, but the playoffs are usually low scoring affairs. So that wasn't surprising. What surprised me is that our starting pitching and defense sucked so bad.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

We scored 6 total runs in 2007, 6 total runs in 2008. We were the only team in these playoffs to not score over 3 runs in a game. This was the best offense in the league the whole year, yet they sucked again in the playoffs. You're not going to win a playoff series averaging 2 runs a game.

Aramis in 07- 0 for 12
Aramis in 08- 2 for 11, no RBI. And I know he was up a bunch with runners on, as Lee was 6 for 11 with 2 doubles and a walk in front of him.

Soriano in 07- 2 for 14
Soriano in 08- 0 for 14


These are the guys we count on, they have to hit. We had so many chances with runners in scoring position each of the last 2 years, and our hitters flat out choked. Game 1 could've been had, but our offense fell asleep aside from the DeRosa homer which was a fluke windblown shot by the way. It was a 4-2 game when Dempster left it, and we still had 5 innings to comeback. In the regular season we certainly do it, but our hitters can't sack up in the playoffs. That's the truth. It's why we need a clutch hitter more than anything.

Peavy's playoff stats:
4.1 IP, 8 H, 8 ER
5.1 IP, 11 H, 5 ER

And he's going to have to throw shutouts or allow 2 runs max to make a difference for our offense that falls asleep when it matters unless we make some changes.

[Butcher]

I hate arguing about this because I'm trying my best to forget that fucking series.

But we would've had to score 8 runs to win game 1 and 11 runs to win game 2.

Sorry, but the best offense in the history of the game couldn't be expected to win playoff games that way. Even if our offense was clicking and scored, say... 6 runs in game 1 and 9 runs in game 2, we still go back to L.A. down 0-2 in the series.

Look -- I fully admit that our offense has blown in the last two postseasons. It's impossible to argue that. All I'm saying is that our pitching sucked *worse* in '08. Not necessarily in '07.

And I agree on Peavy. If we can upgrade our offense AND land Peavy, I'm all for it. If it's one or the other, we need a RFer way more than another SP.

[Clapp]

<!--quoteo(post=1288:date=Dec 4 2008, 05:36 PM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Dec 4 2008, 05:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I hate arguing about this because I'm trying my best to forget that fucking series.

But we would've had to score 8 runs to win game 1 and 11 runs to win game 2.

Sorry, but the best offense in the history of the game couldn't be expected to win playoff games that way. Even if our offense was clicking and scored, say... 6 runs in game 1 and 9 runs in game 2, we still go back to L.A. down 0-2 in the series.

Look -- I fully admit that our offense has blown in the last two postseasons. It's impossible to argue that. All I'm saying is that our pitching sucked *worse* in '08. Not necessarily in '07.

And I agree on Peavy. If we can upgrade our offense AND land Peavy, I'm all for it. If it's one or the other, we need a RFer way more than another SP.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Yeah I hate talking about it too so I'll stop here...

Our pitching sucked and the defense did too, absolutely. Worse than the offense? I don't think so. We do things differently if we score some runs earlier in the game. Game 1 was a 2 or 3 run game until late, but since we can't score any runs, Lou manages the game differently where even Marquis comes in. Game 2, we didn't score until the 7th inning. Game 3, we scored 1 run, didn't come until the 8th.

We sucked in all phases of the game though, no doubt about it.