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No, you give up on the 32 year old (Fuk), not the <i>23</i> year-old (Pie).
Pie is a kid who's never been given a proper shot. Guys who hit .365 in AAA, with power, should be given at least a shot in MLB.
There's nothing better than to realize that the good things about youth don't end with youth itself. It's a matter of realizing that life can be renewed every day you get out of bed without baggage. It's tough to get there, but it's better than the dark thoughts. -Lance
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<!--quoteo(post=6480:date=Dec 22 2008, 09:06 PM:name=Ace)-->QUOTE (Ace @ Dec 22 2008, 09:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I think if we gave Pie about 250-300 at bats against righties, he'd do all right (and provide GG-calibre defense).<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He was really bad in CF last year, really. He doesn't take charge like your'e supposed to in CF. Maybe that changes with growing up and getting experience out there, but he's really not the CF defensively people make him out to be. There were plenty of plays he should've had that he didn't, and he's notorious for missing the cutoff man. He can gun guys down for sure, but sometimes it's better off to just play it safe, especially when there's a runner behind the base he's throwing to.
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<!--quoteo(post=6481:date=Dec 22 2008, 09:08 PM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ Dec 22 2008, 09:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->No, you give up on the 32 year old, not the 23 year-old.
Pie is a kid who's never been given a proper shot. Guys who hit .365 in AAA, with power, should be given at least a shot in MLB.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Pie has legitimate holes that he hasn't showed he can fix. History's shown that guys coming over from Japan can get a bit better in their 2nd year, and Fuk gets it, I'd expect him to make improvements. At worst, he's better defensively than Pie, he gets on base at a high clip, and is a terrific baserunner. He still has plenty of value. Really, Pie has little aside from speed right now.
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Well, I originally brought up this topic to discuss out CF platoon, not to try to defend Pie.
S here's the question: are you happy going into the season with a CF combo of Johnson (including hitting, is a below average CFer) and Fuk (WAY below avg CFer)?
As you said, we're trying to win, right?
There's nothing better than to realize that the good things about youth don't end with youth itself. It's a matter of realizing that life can be renewed every day you get out of bed without baggage. It's tough to get there, but it's better than the dark thoughts. -Lance
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<!--quoteo(post=6484:date=Dec 22 2008, 09:12 PM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ Dec 22 2008, 09:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Well, I originally brought up this topic to discuss out CF platoon, not to try to defend Pie.
S here's the question: are you happy going into the season with a CF combo of Johnson (including hitting, is a below average CFer) and Fuk (WAY below avg CFer)?
As you said, we're trying to win, right?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think Fuk against righties and Reed against lefties will be fine, yes. Fuk is not WAY below average out there, and Reed's a better hitter, especially against lefties than you're giving him credit for. We don't need every hitter in the lineup to be home run guys, that's been part of our problem in October. It's nice to have a Theriot and Reed in there.
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<!--quoteo(post=6484:date=Dec 22 2008, 07:12 PM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ Dec 22 2008, 07:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Well, I originally brought up this topic to discuss out CF platoon, not to try to defend Pie.
S here's the question: are you happy going into the season with a CF combo of Johnson (including hitting, is a below average CFer) and Fuk (WAY below avg CFer)?
As you said, we're trying to win, right?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Reed hit over .300 with a .778 OPS and solid defense, that's really not below average. In fact that would place him 12th among all CFers in OPS.
Fuk was really bad in the 2nd half, but his OPS was over .800 for the first 3 months, so you can't just give up on him after a rough stretch.
If we sign a good RF we will be strong at nearly every position. If we have to take a .750 OPS in CF then I don't have any problem with that, but I think it would end up even higher with that platoon.
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<!--quoteo(post=6482:date=Dec 22 2008, 09:08 PM:name=Clapp)-->QUOTE (Clapp @ Dec 22 2008, 09:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=6480:date=Dec 22 2008, 09:06 PM:name=Ace)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ace @ Dec 22 2008, 09:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I think if we gave Pie about 250-300 at bats against righties, he'd do all right (and provide GG-calibre defense).<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He was really bad in CF last year, really. He doesn't take charge like your'e supposed to in CF. Maybe that changes with growing up and getting experience out there, but he's really not the CF defensively people make him out to be. There were plenty of plays he should've had that he didn't, and he's notorious for missing the cutoff man. He can gun guys down for sure, but sometimes it's better off to just play it safe, especially when there's a runner behind the base he's throwing to.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's not my memory (though my memory could be flawed). He was a little too deferential out there, but I loved his routes and his arm. He's always been considered a plus, plus defender in the minors.
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I'm not sure he was quite as bad as Clapp is saying, but he definitely made several dumb mistakes and let some balls fall because he didn't take charge and go after them. Might just have been because he is young and didn't have the confidence. He does have a strong but not so accurate arm. I think he does have all the skills needed to be a plus defender but he hasn't played that way so far.
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<!--quoteo(post=6492:date=Dec 22 2008, 09:29 PM:name=Fella)-->QUOTE (Fella @ Dec 22 2008, 09:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I'm not sure he was quite as bad as Clapp is saying, but he definitely made several dumb mistakes and let some balls fall because he didn't take charge and go after them. Might just have been because he is young and didn't have the confidence. He does have a strong but not so accurate arm. I think he does have all the skills needed to be a plus defender but he hasn't played that way so far.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's pretty much everything I said. He's not awful by any means but he's not the GG guy people make him out to be, so far anyway.
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<!--quoteo(post=6493:date=Dec 22 2008, 07:30 PM:name=Clapp)-->QUOTE (Clapp @ Dec 22 2008, 07:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=6492:date=Dec 22 2008, 09:29 PM:name=Fella)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fella @ Dec 22 2008, 09:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I'm not sure he was quite as bad as Clapp is saying, but he definitely made several dumb mistakes and let some balls fall because he didn't take charge and go after them. Might just have been because he is young and didn't have the confidence. He does have a strong but not so accurate arm. I think he does have all the skills needed to be a plus defender but he hasn't played that way so far.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's pretty much everything I said. He's not awful by any means but he's not the GG guy people make him out to be, so far anyway.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah it was just the "he was really bad" part I didn't agree with I guess. I agree with everything else.
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<!--quoteo(post=6495:date=Dec 22 2008, 09:31 PM:name=Fella)-->QUOTE (Fella @ Dec 22 2008, 09:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=6493:date=Dec 22 2008, 07:30 PM:name=Clapp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Clapp @ Dec 22 2008, 07:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=6492:date=Dec 22 2008, 09:29 PM:name=Fella)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fella @ Dec 22 2008, 09:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I'm not sure he was quite as bad as Clapp is saying, but he definitely made several dumb mistakes and let some balls fall because he didn't take charge and go after them. Might just have been because he is young and didn't have the confidence. He does have a strong but not so accurate arm. I think he does have all the skills needed to be a plus defender but he hasn't played that way so far.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's pretty much everything I said. He's not awful by any means but he's not the GG guy people make him out to be, so far anyway.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah it was just the "he was really bad" part I didn't agree with I guess. I agree with everything else.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Are Fuk or Reed really bad out there? If they are, so is Pie. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif[/img]
Pie's got the speed, arm, etc. to be an elite CF, no doubt, but he's not yet. And since he hasn't adjusted at the plate, I'm not too faithful he'll do the same out there.
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I find it odd that i haven't heard one syllable about Jim Edmonds this entire winter. His agent basically said he was gonna play next year.
Considering how he hit last summer, it's weird to not have ANY teams looking at him.
There's nothing better than to realize that the good things about youth don't end with youth itself. It's a matter of realizing that life can be renewed every day you get out of bed without baggage. It's tough to get there, but it's better than the dark thoughts. -Lance
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<!--quoteo(post=6503:date=Dec 22 2008, 09:59 PM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ Dec 22 2008, 09:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I find it odd that i haven't heard one syllable about Jim Edmonds this entire winter. His agent basically said he was gonna play next year.
Considering how he hit last summer, it's weird to not have ANY teams looking at him.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If not for Fukudome, I think they'd be very interested.
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<!--quoteo(post=6503:date=Dec 22 2008, 08:59 PM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ Dec 22 2008, 08:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I find it odd that i haven't heard one syllable about Jim Edmonds this entire winter. His agent basically said he was gonna play next year.
Considering how he hit last summer, it's weird to not have ANY teams looking at him.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Are any teams looking at anyone? We've only seen about 5 FAs signed so far. There's about 150 more FA signings to come.
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Also, Pie is hands down the best fielding OFer we have on the team.
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