Next years Hall of Fame

[Clapp]

I'd vote all 4 of those guys in.

[veryzer]

didn't juan marichal club a dodger catcher with a bat? didn't he get in on the first ballot? alomar is a first ballot hall of famer.

[kbwsb]

Based on his play on the ballfield, Alomar is more than a HOFer, he's an inner-circle HOFer.
However, there are a lot of dumbshits who get HOF ballots, and Alomar is exactly the kind of guy who pisses them off: no big milestones like 3,000 hits, a relatively short career, an ugly incident that sticks out in many people's memory, and a basic ignorance of the fact that 2nd base is one of the hardest positions to play on the diamond. I mean, <i>Ryne Fucking Sandberg</i> had to wait 3 go-arounds before they let him in, and even then it was only by 6 measly votes.

Alomar will eventually get in, but I would bet that Jeff Kent becomes a victim of these biases.

[Captain]

<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->there are a lot of dumbshits who get HOF ballots,<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Thats an understatement.

[cigar]

I think all of those guys get in at some point. I don't think any of them do on the first ballot though.

[bz]

I want to see what happens when Ken Griffey Jr., Frank Thomas and Maddux are eligible. I don't see how ANYONE can not vote them in. Perhaps someone could make a really crappy argument for Thomas or Griffey as to not not voting them in, but it wouldn't be close to reasonable or sane. Maddux, however, should be unanimous...but he won't be, and that is fucking stupid.

[bz]

There can literally be no argument what so ever made about not voting for Maddux.

4 Cy Youngs, 355 wins (8th all time), 3.16 ERA (1 full point below career league average,) 3371 Ks (10th) while having less than 1000 walks (only Fergie Jenkins has done that), 5008 IP (13th), 740 games started (4th), 109 complete games (1st "active"), 35 shutouts (2nd active, 71st all time), 3.37 SO/BB (16th all time), 8.49 hits/9IP (21st all times), 1.143 WHIP (53rd all time), 18 Gold Gloves, 180 sac hits (3rd active), youngest player at the time and 4th oldest at that time, World Series ring, and he even has 11 stolen bases while being caught only 3 times.

No argument. If he isn't unanimous than some voters need to be stripped of their vote.

[Runnys]

The argument against Thomas is going to be that he was a DH for a lot of his career and he was a supposed bad clubhouse guy. I don't see any argument against Griffey or Maddux. If Griffey doesn't start having injury problems he is your HR king right now.

[Andy]

If Sandberg didn't get in on the first ballot does Alomar? And if so, why?

[veryzer]

<!--quoteo(post=14699:date=Jan 29 2009, 03:17 PM:name=Andy)-->QUOTE (Andy @ Jan 29 2009, 03:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->If Sandberg didn't get in on the first ballot does Alomar? And if so, why?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


i'll probably get crucified for this, but alomar was better than sandberg.

[Andy]

<!--quoteo(post=14803:date=Jan 30 2009, 07:31 AM:name=veryzer)-->QUOTE (veryzer @ Jan 30 2009, 07:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=14699:date=Jan 29 2009, 03:17 PM:name=Andy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Andy @ Jan 29 2009, 03:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->If Sandberg didn't get in on the first ballot does Alomar? And if so, why?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


i'll probably get crucified for this, but alomar was better than sandberg.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Actually, they were pretty similar. Alomar had the higher ba & obp (and was on better teams), but Sandberg had the better slugging. They both had about the same number of SB and both were awesome with the glove. I guess I would put them at about the same (had Sandberg not walked away once, he'd probably be better).

[johnr42]

I am going to agree with Veryzer in that I think Alomar was better then Sandberg. I'm not sure he was Sandbergs equal with the glove, but if he isn't he was the closest thing I have seen. As far as the stolen base comparison brought up in this thread earlier I think 38 percent more steals by Alomar is significant. I also think the percentage at which Alomar stole successfully (81%) compared to Sandberg (76%) is significant. Most analysis done on the subject says that 76 percent barely causes steals to have a positive outcome on runs scored.

I have to be honest in saying i'm not sure how much better 81 percent is. I am sure it has to do with how many bags were stolen, and in what situation....however, I can safely say that Alomar was better at stealing bases then Sandberg. Alomar also played in an era where the stolen base became less commonplace because of the development of better pickoff moves (at least IMO).

Sandberg's laurels in this situation are based on his ability to hit for power and extra bases. However, if you look over their lifetime statistics, Alomar actually had more EXBH then Sandberg did (794 vs. 761). Granted Alomar played the later stages of his career in what is known as an offensive explosion, it should be noted he put up similar seasons earlier in his career. Alomar did have more games played then Sandberg though. For those big on RBI numbers, Sandberg and Alomar both put up two 100 rbi seasons. I think Sandberg wins this categorie based on the era his prime years fell into (80's and early 90's).

As far as getting on base, I don't think it can argued that Ryno was as good at this as Alomar. Alomar got on base 3756 times in 2379 games (or 1.57 times per game), compared to Sandberg who got on base 3145 times in 2164 games (or 1.45 times per game). Doesn't seem like a huge difference, but when you take into account how many games are played in each of their career it is a massive difference.

Overall as I said earlier I think Alomar was better. I do not think Sandberg's lone tool that was considerably better then Alomars (home run power) is able to make up for the difference in speed and the ability to get on base. Mainly because Alomar made up for his lack of home run power with doubles and triples.