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<!--quoteo(post=14578:date=Jan 28 2009, 10:12 PM:name=Clapp)-->QUOTE (Clapp @ Jan 28 2009, 10:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I really don't see Miles as DeRosa's "replacement". I think Fontenot's going to end up playing more there, and anybody that watched the Cubs on a daily basis last year knows he really can hit. Maybe he doesn't keep slugging at that rate, but that guy hit the ball hard in just about every single game he played in. People are unwilling to believe in him because of his size and the fact that he was a little bit of a late bloomer, but he sure as hell looked like a legitimate major league hitter to me the last 2 years.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I like Fontenot a lot but I can easily see a big drop off in his production this season. I'm not real sold on his defensive abilities either, Fielding Bible be damned.
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Clappie, please don't assume I don't dig Fonty. I love that little bastard. I was actually hoping he would get more playing time.
It's Miles I'm not fond of. You seem to have seen DeRo as the Cub "2nd Baseman," but I saw him as the super-utility guy. Thus, Miles is taking over that role. And he's just plain not as good as DeRo, any way you slice it.
If Bradley stuns the world, and stays healthy enough to play 150 games, and if Aram and DLee both play 150 games, and if Fontenot kicks ass...yeah, then we won't miss DeRo that much. But that's a lot of ifs.
On a more positive note, last year we found ourselves with a gaping hole in the lineup (CF), and Hendry hit paydirt with Ballgame. No reason that he can't try some mid-season wheelin' and dealin' if we find ourselves in a similar spot.
Go Cubs!
There's nothing better than to realize that the good things about youth don't end with youth itself. It's a matter of realizing that life can be renewed every day you get out of bed without baggage. It's tough to get there, but it's better than the dark thoughts. -Lance
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Yea, sure Ace, try to look at the deal in "isolation". Or as I would call it a "bubble". Doesn't exist, sister. A freakin lawyer of all things should realize that EVERYTHING exists within context. Would we be as pissed if Peavy was never born? Who knows. But the fact of the matter is that we acquired personnel that was perceived by many to be a crux of any deal for Peavy. The deal that got us that personnel is highly polarizing. Now the side polarized on the negative side sees what might have salvaged their optimism of the DeRosa trade traded for some dude we basically have already or someone comparable we could have signed for rather cheap based on the current market. Don't pretend the naysayers are idiots because we disagree. I know I was pissed that we traded DeRosa, but I spared Hendry some leverage because we got what could have been an integral part of a trade for a Cy Young winner. And now we are left with an infield hole that was never necessary to begin with. So please...don't ever go "hey, let's pretend the real world doesn't exist and just look at the trade as it stands." Cause that ain't possible. And KB ain't the one soundin crazy here...you are dear.
If Angelo had picked McClellin, I would have been expecting to hear by training camp that kid has stage 4 cancer, is actually 5'2" 142 lbs, is a chick who played in a 7 - 0 defensive scheme who only rotated in on downs which were 3 and 34 yds + so is not expecting to play a down in the NFL until the sex change is complete and she puts on another 100 lbs. + but this is Emery's first pick so he'll get a pass with a bit of questioning. - 1060Ivy
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The only part of this trade that is unsatisfying, is the talk of Peavy. If there were no talks of Peavy coming to the Cubs, we would all be applauding this deal. Heilman is low risk, as opposed to Olson and Cedeno who haven't proven anything in the bigs and have just continued to disappoint, therefore each being a crap shoot.
Cedeno gave us terrible at bats over the years, and given the likely scenario that we will be signing another bench player or two, it was better to get something for him than risking losing him in waivers.
B+ to Hendry on this one.
I hate my pretentious sounding username too.
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<!--quoteo(post=14593:date=Jan 29 2009, 02:54 AM:name=bz)-->QUOTE (bz @ Jan 29 2009, 02:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Yea, sure Ace, try to look at the deal in "isolation". Or as I would call it a "bubble". Doesn't exist, sister. A freakin lawyer of all things should realize that EVERYTHING exists within context. Would we be as pissed if Peavy was never born? Who knows. But the fact of the matter is that we acquired personnel that was perceived by many to be a crux of any deal for Peavy. The deal that got us that personnel is highly polarizing. Now the side polarized on the negative side sees what might have salvaged their optimism of the DeRosa trade traded for some dude we basically have already or someone comparable we could have signed for rather cheap based on the current market. Don't pretend the naysayers are idiots because we disagree. I know I was pissed that we traded DeRosa, but I spared Hendry some leverage because we got what could have been an integral part of a trade for a Cy Young winner. And now we are left with an infield hole that was never necessary to begin with. So please...don't ever go "hey, let's pretend the real world doesn't exist and just look at the trade as it stands." Cause that ain't possible. And KB ain't the one soundin crazy here...you are dear.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Jesus Christ, dude. Do you think that was a little over the top? You are putting words in my mouth, and getting way out of hand. All I said is that this individual deal makes the Cubs better.
That was way, way too harsh, man.
And as for the substance, all you did was agree with me - the move you're pissed about is the DeRosa trade. Not this one.
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<!--quoteo(post=14604:date=Jan 29 2009, 06:35 AM:name=Ace)-->QUOTE (Ace @ Jan 29 2009, 06:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=14593:date=Jan 29 2009, 02:54 AM:name=bz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bz @ Jan 29 2009, 02:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Yea, sure Ace, try to look at the deal in "isolation". Or as I would call it a "bubble". Doesn't exist, sister. A freakin lawyer of all things should realize that EVERYTHING exists within context. Would we be as pissed if Peavy was never born? Who knows. But the fact of the matter is that we acquired personnel that was perceived by many to be a crux of any deal for Peavy. The deal that got us that personnel is highly polarizing. Now the side polarized on the negative side sees what might have salvaged their optimism of the DeRosa trade traded for some dude we basically have already or someone comparable we could have signed for rather cheap based on the current market. Don't pretend the naysayers are idiots because we disagree. I know I was pissed that we traded DeRosa, but I spared Hendry some leverage because we got what could have been an integral part of a trade for a Cy Young winner. And now we are left with an infield hole that was never necessary to begin with. So please...don't ever go "hey, let's pretend the real world doesn't exist and just look at the trade as it stands." Cause that ain't possible. And KB ain't the one soundin crazy here...you are dear.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Jesus Christ, dude. Do you think that was a little over the top? You are putting words in my mouth, and getting way out of hand. All I said is that this individual deal makes the Cubs better.
That was way, way too harsh, man.
And as for the substance, all you did was agree with me - the move you're pissed about is the DeRosa trade. Not this one.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
*Shrug*
Fuck you, Ace.
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Ace is actually a completely cool cat. Dude, I'm <i>glad</i> I met ya, and even more glad I got to sit next to you for 9 innings and talk baseball.
Hey, we all are going to look at these trades and signings from different angles...it's hard to know how things will actually work out in the real world-162-game season.
I don't think that anyone can deny that's it's been a bizarre head-scratcher of an off-season, but we still have all the main horses from a team that led the league in runs scored, and won 97 games.
As far as big boys go, we're missing DeRo, but we picked up Bradley.
I think we win the division.
There's nothing better than to realize that the good things about youth don't end with youth itself. It's a matter of realizing that life can be renewed every day you get out of bed without baggage. It's tough to get there, but it's better than the dark thoughts. -Lance
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<!--quoteo(post=14616:date=Jan 29 2009, 07:52 AM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ Jan 29 2009, 07:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Ace is actually a completely cool cat. Dude, I'm <i>glad</i> I met ya, and even more glad I got to sit next to you for 9 innings and talk baseball.
Hey, we all are going to look at these trades and signings from different angles...it's hard to know how things will actually work out in the real world-162-game season.
I don't think that anyone can deny that's it's been a bizarre head-scratcher of an off-season, but we still have all the main horses from a team that led the league in runs scored, and won 97 games.
As far as big boys go, we're missing DeRo, but we picked up Bradley.
I think we win the division.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Fuck you, too, Kabes...
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From Baseball America: http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/major...009/267504.html
<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->The Mets' first-round pick in 2001, Heilman joins righthanders Grant Johnson and Jeff Samardzija as players with Notre Dame ties targeted by Cubs general manager Jim Hendry, a long-time friend of former Irish coach Paul Mainieri. The club used its top pick in 2004 (second-round) to select Johnson and spent lavishly on Samardzija, a 2006 fifth-rounder, buying him out of football for a five-year, $10 million big league deal.
Lefthanded batters owned Heilman, 30, in 2008, battering him for a line of .308/.425/.567 with eight home runs in 149 plate appearances. At his best, though, Heilman's changeup is an equalizer against lefties, <b>but tendinitis in his left knee hampered his ability to get extension on his pitches last season.</b><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I didn't know he was hurt last year.....
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<!--quoteo(post=14491:date=Jan 28 2009, 06:24 PM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Jan 28 2009, 06:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Relief pitchers from Indiana who grew up Cubs fans have worked out well for us in the past.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
dude? seriously?
Wang.
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<!--quoteo(post=14578:date=Jan 28 2009, 10:12 PM:name=Clapp)-->QUOTE (Clapp @ Jan 28 2009, 10:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I really don't see Miles as DeRosa's "replacement". I think Fontenot's going to end up playing more there, and anybody that watched the Cubs on a daily basis last year knows he really can hit. Maybe he doesn't keep slugging at that rate, but that guy hit the ball hard in just about every single game he played in. People are unwilling to believe in him because of his size and the fact that he was a little bit of a late bloomer, but he sure as hell looked like a legitimate major league hitter to me the last 2 years.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
dude, totally. there's no way hendry trades derosa if fontenot isn't on the team. they wanted to get more lefthanded, and with fontenot and bradley, they accomplish that. miles becomes the supersub.
to me bradley/fontenot/miles > derosa/fontenot/cedeno
Wang.
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<!--quoteo(post=14626:date=Jan 29 2009, 09:36 AM:name=veryzer)-->QUOTE (veryzer @ Jan 29 2009, 09:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=14578:date=Jan 28 2009, 10:12 PM:name=Clapp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Clapp @ Jan 28 2009, 10:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I really don't see Miles as DeRosa's "replacement". I think Fontenot's going to end up playing more there, and anybody that watched the Cubs on a daily basis last year knows he really can hit. Maybe he doesn't keep slugging at that rate, but that guy hit the ball hard in just about every single game he played in. People are unwilling to believe in him because of his size and the fact that he was a little bit of a late bloomer, but he sure as hell looked like a legitimate major league hitter to me the last 2 years.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
dude, totally. there's no way hendry trades derosa if fontenot isn't on the team. they wanted to get more lefthanded, and with fontenot and bradley, they accomplish that. miles becomes the supersub.
to me bradley/fontenot/miles > derosa/fontenot/cedeno
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I hope Fontenot works out -- I really do. But he has never had more than 240 ABs in a single year. This Fontenot/Miles platoon smells vaguely of the Hollandsworth/Dubois platoon.
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<!--quoteo(post=14624:date=Jan 29 2009, 09:30 AM:name=veryzer)-->QUOTE (veryzer @ Jan 29 2009, 09:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=14491:date=Jan 28 2009, 06:24 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Jan 28 2009, 06:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Relief pitchers from Indiana who grew up Cubs fans have worked out well for us in the past.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
dude? seriously?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No. I wasn't being serious.
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<!--quoteo(post=14588:date=Jan 29 2009, 01:01 AM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ Jan 29 2009, 01:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->If Bradley stuns the world, and stays healthy enough to play 150 games, and if Aram and DLee both play 150 games, and if Fontenot kicks ass...yeah, then we won't miss DeRo that much. But that's a lot of ifs.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And if Derosa, at age 34, regresses from a career best year then we might miss him a little less. That's not a very big if.
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I don't understand why we wanted to get more left-handed. Especially if it's that desire that was the factor that caused Derosa to be traded.
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