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<!--quoteo(post=36735:date=May 9 2009, 06:52 AM:name=Ace)-->QUOTE (Ace @ May 9 2009, 06:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->The Cubs have the third highest payroll in baseball. I agree that they have money constraints, I just think it's funny.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I haven't really lamented the loss of DeRosa until Ramirez went down last night. Cleveland is pretty bad though, perhaps they'd like to trade back?
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<!--quoteo(post=36739:date=May 9 2009, 08:49 AM:name=sleepyhead)-->QUOTE (sleepyhead @ May 9 2009, 08:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=36735:date=May 9 2009, 06:52 AM:name=Ace)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ace @ May 9 2009, 06:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->The Cubs have the third highest payroll in baseball. I agree that they have money constraints, I just think it's funny.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I haven't really lamented the loss of DeRosa until Ramirez went down last night. Cleveland is pretty bad though, perhaps they'd like to trade back?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's astounding how no amount of evidence will convince some people.
The Chicago papers should have just printed this headline:
<!--coloro:#0000FF--> <!--/coloro-->Hendry Finally Admits Colossal Blunder...Trades For Inferior DeRosa Clone Freel<!--colorc-->
<!--/colorc-->
There's nothing better than to realize that the good things about youth don't end with youth itself. It's a matter of realizing that life can be renewed every day you get out of bed without baggage. It's tough to get there, but it's better than the dark thoughts. -Lance
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<!--quoteo(post=36742:date=May 9 2009, 11:42 AM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ May 9 2009, 11:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=36739:date=May 9 2009, 08:49 AM:name=sleepyhead)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (sleepyhead @ May 9 2009, 08:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=36735:date=May 9 2009, 06:52 AM:name=Ace)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ace @ May 9 2009, 06:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->The Cubs have the third highest payroll in baseball. I agree that they have money constraints, I just think it's funny.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I haven't really lamented the loss of DeRosa until Ramirez went down last night. Cleveland is pretty bad though, perhaps they'd like to trade back?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's astounding how no amount of evidence will convince some people.
The Chicago papers should have just printed this headline:
<!--coloro:#0000FF--> <!--/coloro-->Hendry Finally Admits Colossal Blunder...Trades For Inferior DeRosa Clone Freel<!--colorc-->
<!--/colorc-->
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, it's amazing that some people are incapable of doing simple math. The fact that the trade had to be league approved because of the amount of $$$ sent to the Cubs by the O's should show that the Cubs aren't working with an unlimited budget.
Also, why would you admit to a blunder when it wasn't a blunder? Money aside, there's 2 other reasons DeRosa was traded: to get Fontenot more PT and to get more left handed.
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FWIW, Bruce Miles on NSBB has said almost the exact same thing I've been saying all along. The DeRosa trade and all of the moves made in the off season were done as money saving moves to help with backloaded contracts and the signing of Bradley, first and foremost.
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<!--quoteo(post=36744:date=May 9 2009, 12:56 PM:name=ruby23)-->QUOTE (ruby23 @ May 9 2009, 12:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->FWIW, Bruce Miles on NSBB has said almost the exact same thing I've been saying all along. The DeRosa trade and all of the moves made in the off season were done as money saving moves to help with backloaded contracts and the signing of Bradley, first and foremost.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I know this is gonna sound like I'm straddling the fence, but I agree with your logic but at the same time I also think KB and Butch make valid points. I think trading DeRo on the same day as we signed Miles just left a bad taste in our mouths, and it's just hard for some of us to get over it.
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<!--quoteo(post=36744:date=May 9 2009, 12:56 PM:name=ruby23)-->QUOTE (ruby23 @ May 9 2009, 12:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->FWIW, Bruce Miles on NSBB has said almost the exact same thing I've been saying all along. The DeRosa trade and all of the moves made in the off season were done as money saving moves to help with backloaded contracts and the signing of Bradley, first and foremost.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yup. That 2 million we saved (and have since pissed away) is going to really help offset Soriano's $136 million contract. Now that I've done the simple math, I totally see what you mean.
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<!--quoteo(post=36745:date=May 9 2009, 01:01 PM:name=rok)-->QUOTE (rok @ May 9 2009, 01:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=36744:date=May 9 2009, 12:56 PM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ May 9 2009, 12:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->FWIW, Bruce Miles on NSBB has said almost the exact same thing I've been saying all along. The DeRosa trade and all of the moves made in the off season were done as money saving moves to help with backloaded contracts and the signing of Bradley, first and foremost.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I know this is gonna sound like I'm straddling the fence, but I agree with your logic but at the same time I also think KB and Butch make valid points. I think trading DeRo on the same day as we signed Miles just left a bad taste in our mouths, and it's just hard for some of us to get over it.
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Rube, I get that we had to play around with the money. But with a $143M base, there's room to absorb an extra 1 or 2 mil, as in DeRo's case.
The thing that pisses me off are the people who are pretending to act astounded that Bradley and Aram <i>are actually getting hurt and missing games</i>! That, to me, was a clear <b>given</b>, long before the season began.
We have one of the oldest teams in the league. Steroids are being tested for and greenies and amphetamines are now illegal. Thus, old guys are gonna miss a lot of games. Fact.
Having a supersub like DeRosa would have been immensely valuable. Fact.
And puh-leeeeeze stop with the total bullshit about "but he was our 2nd baseman."
No. He was a utility guy his entire time with the Cubs. The fact that he was the best utility guy in the majors was why we won 97 games.
I'm happy we are trying to rectify the DeRo mistake by getting Freel, and I hope he contributes.
There's nothing better than to realize that the good things about youth don't end with youth itself. It's a matter of realizing that life can be renewed every day you get out of bed without baggage. It's tough to get there, but it's better than the dark thoughts. -Lance
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I wish we had DeRosa still. Butcher and KB are right.
Ruby, we get the money thing. We get it. But that doesn't mean we like it or accept it. I especially don't since we pissed away all that money we saved.
If Angelo had picked McClellin, I would have been expecting to hear by training camp that kid has stage 4 cancer, is actually 5'2" 142 lbs, is a chick who played in a 7 - 0 defensive scheme who only rotated in on downs which were 3 and 34 yds + so is not expecting to play a down in the NFL until the sex change is complete and she puts on another 100 lbs. + but this is Emery's first pick so he'll get a pass with a bit of questioning. - 1060Ivy
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<!--quoteo(post=36750:date=May 9 2009, 01:12 PM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ May 9 2009, 01:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->The thing that pisses me off are the people who are pretending to act astounded that Bradley and Aram <i>are actually getting hurt and missing games</i>! That, to me, was a clear <b>given</b>, long before the season began.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I dare you to name one person here who is "astounded" Bradley and Ramirez have gotten hurt.
<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->And puh-leeeeeze stop with the total bullshit about "but he was our 2nd baseman."
No. He was a utility guy his entire time with the Cubs. The fact that he was the best utility guy in the majors was why we won 97 games.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Fine, let's break this down a little differently. Mark DeRosa started 80 games at 2B (out of 143 total he started for the season), Fontenot started 49, Cedeno 31, and Eric Patterson started 1. The Cubs wanted Mike Fontenot to be the starting second baseman for the 2009 season. Let's say, for the sake of days off and not starting against most lefties, that means he starts 135 games. So take his 49, give him Cedeno's 31 and Patterson's 1, which gets him to 81 starts. So that means he takes 54 starts from DeRosa, leaving him with 89 starts.
DeRosa also started 21 games in LF. Every single one (I went through and checked) of those 21 starts came while Soriano was on the DL. Since, before he was a Cub, Soriano had never been to the DL, there's no reason to assume he'd be headed to the DL. and Since DeRosa never started in LF while Soriano was on the active roster, it's pretty clear someone else would giving him days off. So let's just say Soriano stays healthy for the season. There goes most (if not all) of those 21 starts in LF (let's say we give him 5 starts out there). He also started 32 games in RF. With Fukudome and Bradley on the roster, it would be incredibly difficult to keep that number that high, so let's say 25 starts in RF for him. This leaves him with 66 starts.
All of the sudden, Lou and Hendry are telling a guy coming of a terrific three-year stretch, in the big contract year of his career, that he's going to lose over half his starts unless numerous guys get hurt? This is unreasonable and a poor use of resources, considering you can trade him to get pieces instead of just wasting him on the bench.
The thing you need to remember is that all Cardinals fans and all White Sox fans are very bad people. It's a fact that has been scientifically proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. Being a Cubs fan is the only path to rightousness and piousness. Cardinal and White Sox fans exist to be the dark, diabolical forces that oppose us. They are the yin to our yang, the Joker to our Batman, the demon to our angel, the insurgence to our freedom, the oil to our water, the club to our baby seal. Their happiness occurs only in direct conflict with everything that is pure and good in this world.
-Dirk
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<!--quoteo(post=36764:date=May 9 2009, 02:39 PM:name=Giff)-->QUOTE (Giff @ May 9 2009, 02:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=36750:date=May 9 2009, 01:12 PM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ May 9 2009, 01:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->The thing that pisses me off are the people who are pretending to act astounded that Bradley and Aram <i>are actually getting hurt and missing games</i>! That, to me, was a clear <b>given</b>, long before the season began.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I dare you to name one person here who is "astounded" Bradley and Ramirez have gotten hurt.
<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->And puh-leeeeeze stop with the total bullshit about "but he was our 2nd baseman."
No. He was a utility guy his entire time with the Cubs. The fact that he was the best utility guy in the majors was why we won 97 games.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Fine, let's break this down a little differently. Mark DeRosa started 80 games at 2B (out of 143 total he started for the season), Fontenot started 49, Cedeno 31, and Eric Patterson started 1. The Cubs wanted Mike Fontenot to be the starting second baseman for the 2009 season. Let's say, for the sake of days off and not starting against most lefties, that means he starts 135 games. So take his 49, give him Cedeno's 31 and Patterson's 1, which gets him to 81 starts. So that means he takes 54 starts from DeRosa, leaving him with 89 starts.
DeRosa also started 21 games in LF. Every single one (I went through and checked) of those 21 starts came while Soriano was on the DL. Since, before he was a Cub, Soriano had never been to the DL, there's no reason to assume he'd be headed to the DL. and Since DeRosa never started in LF while Soriano was on the active roster, it's pretty clear someone else would giving him days off. So let's just say Soriano stays healthy for the season. There goes most (if not all) of those 21 starts in LF (let's say we give him 5 starts out there). He also started 32 games in RF. With Fukudome and Bradley on the roster, it would be incredibly difficult to keep that number that high, so let's say 25 starts in RF for him. This leaves him with 66 starts.
All of the sudden, Lou and Hendry are telling a guy coming of a terrific three-year stretch, in the big contract year of his career, that he's going to lose over half his starts unless numerous guys get hurt? This is unreasonable and a poor use of resources, considering you can trade him to get pieces instead of just wasting him on the bench.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Dude really, what planet are you from? Fuck getting pieces when we're trying to win a god damn World Series. I can give two shits about whatever crappy pitchers we got from DeRosa.
Bottom line, the team would have been better with DeRosa. And I don't believe that we couldn't afford him when we're wasting money on players we've cut.
If Angelo had picked McClellin, I would have been expecting to hear by training camp that kid has stage 4 cancer, is actually 5'2" 142 lbs, is a chick who played in a 7 - 0 defensive scheme who only rotated in on downs which were 3 and 34 yds + so is not expecting to play a down in the NFL until the sex change is complete and she puts on another 100 lbs. + but this is Emery's first pick so he'll get a pass with a bit of questioning. - 1060Ivy
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And why are we so worried about coddling these players? I guarantee you if DeRosa were on the team still and happened to bitch about his role, all of you would be yelling for him to suck it up and quit being a bitch. And none of you would be going "Welp, I empathize with him because it's a contract year blah blah blah"
If Angelo had picked McClellin, I would have been expecting to hear by training camp that kid has stage 4 cancer, is actually 5'2" 142 lbs, is a chick who played in a 7 - 0 defensive scheme who only rotated in on downs which were 3 and 34 yds + so is not expecting to play a down in the NFL until the sex change is complete and she puts on another 100 lbs. + but this is Emery's first pick so he'll get a pass with a bit of questioning. - 1060Ivy
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<!--quoteo(post=36768:date=May 9 2009, 02:47 PM:name=bz)-->QUOTE (bz @ May 9 2009, 02:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->And why are we so worried about coddling these players? I guarantee you if DeRosa were on the team still and happened to bitch about his role, all of you would be yelling for him to suck it up and quit being a bitch. And none of you would be going "Welp, I empathize with him because it's a contract year blah blah blah"<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's not about "coddling" anyone. But it's incredibly important to keep your players happy. And it's playing with fire to turn someone like DeRosa into a bench player after all that he's done the last three seasons. So when you have a situation like that, with an adequate replacement for the job he would've been doing this year (not what he did last season), and you're looking to save money wherever you can, you trade him.
The thing you need to remember is that all Cardinals fans and all White Sox fans are very bad people. It's a fact that has been scientifically proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. Being a Cubs fan is the only path to rightousness and piousness. Cardinal and White Sox fans exist to be the dark, diabolical forces that oppose us. They are the yin to our yang, the Joker to our Batman, the demon to our angel, the insurgence to our freedom, the oil to our water, the club to our baby seal. Their happiness occurs only in direct conflict with everything that is pure and good in this world.
-Dirk
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BUT HE WOULDN'T BE ON THE BENCH!
Jesus, Butch outlined this for you clowns. Plus, he <i>loved</i> being a Cub...something incredibly important to remember as well. He would have played catcher if he was asked to.
If Angelo had picked McClellin, I would have been expecting to hear by training camp that kid has stage 4 cancer, is actually 5'2" 142 lbs, is a chick who played in a 7 - 0 defensive scheme who only rotated in on downs which were 3 and 34 yds + so is not expecting to play a down in the NFL until the sex change is complete and she puts on another 100 lbs. + but this is Emery's first pick so he'll get a pass with a bit of questioning. - 1060Ivy
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<!--quoteo(post=36772:date=May 9 2009, 03:14 PM:name=bz)-->QUOTE (bz @ May 9 2009, 03:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->BUT HE WOULDN'T BE ON THE BENCH!
Jesus, Butch outlined this for you clowns. Plus, he <i>loved</i> being a Cub...something incredibly important to remember as well. He would have played catcher if he was asked to.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So a guy who starts 66 games wouldn't be a bench player? Then I guess we have a different definition of what a bench player is.
The thing you need to remember is that all Cardinals fans and all White Sox fans are very bad people. It's a fact that has been scientifically proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. Being a Cubs fan is the only path to rightousness and piousness. Cardinal and White Sox fans exist to be the dark, diabolical forces that oppose us. They are the yin to our yang, the Joker to our Batman, the demon to our angel, the insurgence to our freedom, the oil to our water, the club to our baby seal. Their happiness occurs only in direct conflict with everything that is pure and good in this world.
-Dirk
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<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->The thing that pisses me off are the people who are pretending to act astounded that Bradley and Aram are actually getting hurt and missing games! That, to me, was a clear given, long before the season began.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
EXACTLY. Anyone but the mentally retarded can obviously see the Ramirez injury coming from a mile away. I mean he missed THIRTEEN games last year!!!!! What a fragile pussy! Then there was that ONE year (out of nine full seasons) where Mr Injury-waiting-to-happen played LESS than 130 games (Glass Joe only made it through 123 in 2005). I mean, he just turned THIRTY ONE! Most guy's careers are over by then, and they are sitting back in their rockers talking about the good old days. The obvious solution to this completely predicable injury would be to have paid 5.5 million dollars to a sprightly youngster, like the 34 year old DeRosa, and plant his ass on the bench to await Ramirez's inevitable breakdown.
Seriously, anyone who didn't see this freak injury resulting in Ramirez's (probable) longest stint on the DL in his career coming from a mile away, is living with blinders on.
I wish that I believed in Fate. I wish I didn't sleep so late. I used to be carried in the arms of cheerleaders.
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