Soriano is awful

[jstraw]

How many managers have been hall of fame players?

[Destined]

<!--quoteo(post=59842:date=Aug 24 2009, 07:47 PM:name=jstraw)-->QUOTE (jstraw @ Aug 24 2009, 07:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->How many managers have been hall of fame players?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Just going through the all-time list of managers, this is what I got:

Luke Appling
Dave Bancroft
Yogi Berra
Jim Bottomly
<b>Lou Boudreau</b>
Roger Bresnahan
<b>Mordacai Brown</b>
Max Carey
<b>Frank Chance</b>
Ty Cobb
Mickey Cochrane
Eddie Collins
Jimmy Collins
Roger Conner
George Davis
Bill Dickey
Larry Doby
<b>Johnny Evers</b>
Buck Ewing
Pud Galvin
Joe Gordon
Burleigh Grimes
<b>Gabby Hartnett</b>
Billy Herman
<b>Roger Hornsby</b>
Walter Johnson
Joe Kelley
King Kelly
Nap Lajoie
Bob Lemon
Ted Lyons
Rabbitt Maranville
Bid McPhee
Kid Nichols
Jim O'Rourke
Mel Ott
Tony Perez
Frank Robinson
Ray Schalk
George Sisler
<b>Al Spalding</b>
Tris Speaker
<b>Joe Tinker</b>
Pie Traynor
Ted Williams
George Wright
Cy Young



Ok, that list includes some player-managers. But there's tons of big names there.

[Kid]

That's also a really old list of players. Looks like the vast majority are from the 1960s or earlier.

[Destined]

<!--quoteo(post=59851:date=Aug 24 2009, 09:38 PM:name=Kid)-->QUOTE (Kid @ Aug 24 2009, 09:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->That's also a really old list of players. Looks like the vast majority are from the 1960s or earlier.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, Frank Robinson was the only one that came to mind at first.

[Destined]

2x Posts suck

[jstraw]

I wonder if it's because that since free-agency money came into the game, HOF level players have mostly retired too rich to want to work that hard after they hang 'em up.

[wcplummer]

<!--quoteo(post=59776:date=Aug 24 2009, 04:26 PM:name=Scarey)-->QUOTE (Scarey @ Aug 24 2009, 04:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->It's not really relevant, but on that Theriot play you were talking about I'm pretty sure the infield fly rule was (or should have been) called, so there actually wouldn't be any forceout anywhere, so it makes sense to throw home there.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

No it was runners on 1st and 3rd. Because the play before he didn't cut down the lead runner.

[Coldneck]

<!--quoteo(post=59837:date=Aug 24 2009, 10:38 PM:name=stevestonescigar)-->QUOTE (stevestonescigar @ Aug 24 2009, 10:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Everything I have read about Ryno suggest that he is a old school type manger. Juts throwing that out there.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Yeah, I thought that would be the case because Ryno is kind of a do the little things, throwback type manager. I don't know if that is good or bad. If Sandberg were successful it would be a great story, but if he was not it could get ugly and tarnish a legacy.

[ruby23]

<!--quoteo(post=59887:date=Aug 25 2009, 07:45 AM:name=Coldneck)-->QUOTE (Coldneck @ Aug 25 2009, 07:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=59837:date=Aug 24 2009, 10:38 PM:name=stevestonescigar)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (stevestonescigar @ Aug 24 2009, 10:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Everything I have read about Ryno suggest that he is a old school type manger. Juts throwing that out there.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Yeah, I thought that would be the case because Ryno is kind of a do the little things, throwback type manager. I don't know if that is good or bad. If Sandberg were successful it would be a great story, but if he was not it could get ugly and tarnish a legacy.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not sure how losing with a team that's basically never won would tarnish anything. Williams and Jenkins have both coached on the MLB level with the Cubs and they've survived just fine, I wouldn't expect any different from Sandberg.

That being said, I'm not really interested in handing the team over to him. I'd rather see him transition to an MLB coaching position prior to handing him the entire MLB team as the manager. Trammell would be my choice to take over for Lou currently, but I'm not sure how much different the team would actually be ran with him as opposed to Lou.

[rok]

If we're gonna make a change, the entire coaching staff needs to go, including Trammell. I have no interest in seeing the same people in the dugout next season, and I don't want any disgruntled former Lou guys still hanging around perpetuating the same crap as since last October.

[ColoradoCub]

<!--QuoteBegin-Twitter+-->QUOTE (Twitter)<!--QuoteEBegin-->cst_cubs: Soriano to go for MRI on ailing left knee. Possible surgery?about 1 hour ago from txt<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Awesome. Put yourself before the team all season, then finally decide to do something about your knee in August once things fall apart. Way to go asshole.

[Clapp]

<!--quoteo(post=60056:date=Aug 25 2009, 10:22 PM:name=ColoradoCub)-->QUOTE (ColoradoCub @ Aug 25 2009, 10:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--QuoteBegin-Twitter+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Twitter)<!--QuoteEBegin-->cst_cubs: Soriano to go for MRI on ailing left knee. Possible surgery?about 1 hour ago from txt<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Awesome. Put yourself before the team all season, then finally decide to do something about your knee in August once things fall apart. Way to go asshole.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well it was try to play through it or be done for the season, I can't be mad at him for choosing to play if he could. But it's clearly bothered him all year. He moves around gingerly and just doesn't seem to be taking the same powerful swings. It's not just him missing at the sliders, he's just not driving the ball at all either on pitches he usually would hit a mile.

And no way he just fell off the face of the earth. We saw in two months this year what he's capable of doing. His batting average is 28 points lower than it's ever been as a regular player, his on-base percentage is the lowest it's been as a regular player, and so is his slugging percentage. His slugging percentage is down 109 points from last year.

It's very possible he's declining, but not THAT much. He's definitely not right. If surgery could help at all, I really hope he gets it. No sense in him playing this last month regardless.

[Ace]

<!--quoteo(post=60057:date=Aug 26 2009, 12:31 AM:name=Clapp)-->QUOTE (Clapp @ Aug 26 2009, 12:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=60056:date=Aug 25 2009, 10:22 PM:name=ColoradoCub)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ColoradoCub @ Aug 25 2009, 10:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--QuoteBegin-Twitter+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Twitter)<!--QuoteEBegin-->cst_cubs: Soriano to go for MRI on ailing left knee. Possible surgery?about 1 hour ago from txt<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Awesome. Put yourself before the team all season, then finally decide to do something about your knee in August once things fall apart. Way to go asshole.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well it was try to play through it or be done for the season, I can't be mad at him for choosing to play if he could. But it's clearly bothered him all year. He moves around gingerly and just doesn't seem to be taking the same powerful swings. It's not just him missing at the sliders, he's just not driving the ball at all either on pitches he usually would hit a mile.

And no way he just fell off the face of the earth. We saw in two months this year what he's capable of doing. His batting average is 28 points lower than it's ever been as a regular player, his on-base percentage is the lowest it's been as a regular player, and so is his slugging percentage. His slugging percentage is down 109 points from last year.

It's very possible he's declining, but not THAT much. He's definitely not right. If surgery could help at all, I really hope he gets it. No sense in him playing this last month regardless.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

All year he said how great he felt. I'm not angry with him, like Prior, because Soriano wasn't playing for a contract. But still - don't bullshit me that you feel great, when we could have been playing Jake Fox more.

[Coldneck]

I honestly hope the bum knee is responsibile for Soriano's suck. I hate the guy because he seems to take his talen for granted and looks like he's going through the motions. But if this team is going to be successful they need Soriano to be primo. The Soriano we saw this season was a joke. Get the surgery and turn it around.

It also will give us a chance to see what Jake Fox can do in a full time OF role. That alone makes me happy.

[vitaminB]

<!--quoteo(post=60056:date=Aug 26 2009, 12:22 AM:name=ColoradoCub)-->QUOTE (ColoradoCub @ Aug 26 2009, 12:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--QuoteBegin-Twitter+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Twitter)<!--QuoteEBegin-->cst_cubs: Soriano to go for MRI on ailing left knee. Possible surgery?about 1 hour ago from txt<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Awesome. Put yourself before the team all season, then finally decide to do something about your knee in August once things fall apart. Way to go asshole.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I don't see how you're faulting the guy at all for this. We expect him to play through pain when we have a chance, and then after we're out of it, shut it down and make sure you're ready for spring training. It feels like to me you're just looking for a reason to rag on him. I