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Coldneck · 08-24-2009, 08:02 AM

Lou will ride out to the cow pasture after next season. His contract will be up after all and we'll be a year closer to some financial flexibility.

ruby23 · 08-24-2009, 08:03 AM

QUOTE (Scarey @ Aug 24 2009, 03:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Destined @ Aug 23 2009, 10:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ Aug 23 2009, 08:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Coldneck @ Aug 23 2009, 07:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Coach @ Aug 23 2009, 08:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Im beginning to think that our only choice next year will be to bring everyone back and hope this year was a fluke.
That is the most likely choice. Either Marshall of Gorzelanny will need to replace Harden.
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That and adding a decent SS and maybe 1 setup man is all I am honestly expecting from out front office. I'd like to see drastic changes to our team up the middle, but that isn't realistic.
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Getting rid of Lou wouldn't hurt too.
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What exactly has Lou done wrong here? I never hear an actual reason for everyone wanting to fire him. I will occasionally hear about how he wanted to have the extra left handed bat, but that's not what fucked the Cubs this season.

More simply put, what would a different manager provide to this team that Lou doesn't? Or what would said manager do better?

I feel like people want change for the sake of change. Anyone else think it's crazy?
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I want Lou gone because I never wanted him in the first place. He is basically Dusty Baker. He gets a free pass because he won a WS 2 decades ago. He's part of the problem.

Coldneck · 08-24-2009, 08:06 AM

by all means, I am not a Lou guy. I criticize him quite often. But this team's problem is not Lou Pineilla. They'd blow no matter who the manager is.

***jstraw*** · 08-24-2009, 08:25 AM

Lou has made a half-dozen or so really weird in-game moves this season...total wtf head-scratchers...and it took him forever to lead off Fuk...and then when that's demonstrably working great...he stops.

So on the one side, there's that.

On the other hand, he patched together a lineup with the injuries he's been confronted with that had us in first place in August. That's called giving us an opportunity to get healthy and win this. It's not working out that way but that's not Lou's fault. That were were tied for first less than three weeks ago was a miracle and he gets all kinds of credit for that from me.

I think Hendry's had his run and I can't imagine Ricketts not having an idea about who his new guy in the front office will be...and that's like a University getting a new AD. New ADs have idea about who their new head football and basketball coaches are going to be.

Lou may be gone after next year but I'm sure not calling for his head.

ruby23 · 08-24-2009, 09:11 AM

QUOTE (Coldneck @ Aug 24 2009, 07:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>by all means, I am not a Lou guy. I criticize him quite often. But this team's problem is not Lou Pineilla. They'd blow no matter who the manager is.
The team's not Lou's problem? It's his team, built the way he wanted it, with the players he wanted, in the roles he wanted. Hendry gave Lou the exact thing he wanted and it's blown up in both their faces. It's as much Lou's fault for the way this team was constructed as it is Hendry's.

Scarey · 08-24-2009, 09:18 AM

QUOTE (jstraw @ Aug 24 2009, 07:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Lou may be gone after next year but I'm sure not calling for his head.

I understand that you're not one of the people looking for a new manager, but I think you put up solid arguments that Lou detractors would so I'm going to use your answers.

QUOTE Lou has made a half-dozen or so really weird in-game moves this season...total wtf head-scratchers...

This may be a cop-out but... what manager does NOT make a those questionable in game moves through out the course of an MLB season? Is it really a certainty that a Brenly or a Trammel or who ever will not make questionable moves?

QUOTE and it took him forever to lead off Fuk...and then when that's demonstrably working great...he stops.

I understand why people are upset about Kosuke not hitting leadoff, but the guy has the third highest slugging percentage on the team of our regulars. I certainly understand why he would want to use him lower in the order. I also understand this line of thought contradicts the fact that Alf has been a fixture at the leadoff position for most of his tenure as a Cub, but in the same way why didn't anyone criticize him for having his (at the time Fukudome was leading off) second highest slugging % player batting leadoff?

I still feel like the people complaining about Lou want change for the sake of change, but this team isn't going to get tremendously better or disgustingly worse by switching managers.

Oh, and Ruby... I'm really upset that we didn't have the Lou = Dusty argument at SOITOW.

Scarey · 08-24-2009, 09:24 AM

QUOTE (ruby23 @ Aug 24 2009, 08:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Coldneck @ Aug 24 2009, 07:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>by all means, I am not a Lou guy. I criticize him quite often. But this team's problem is not Lou Pineilla. They'd blow no matter who the manager is.
The team's not Lou's problem? It's his team, built the way he wanted it, with the players he wanted, in the roles he wanted. Hendry gave Lou the exact thing he wanted and it's blown up in both their faces. It's as much Lou's fault for the way this team was constructed as it is Hendry's.
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[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ruby.gif[/img]

This team is bad because Bradley struggled early on, second base has been an offensive black hole, Soriano has been horse shit, Soto has been unlucky, injured, and just not good, Aramis was injured for quite some time, and the bullpen has been inconsistent.

I'll give you Fontenot and Bradley, but did Lou ask for Soriano when Hendry signed him? Do you blame Lou for feeling secure with Soto as his catcher? Did Lou make a request specifically for Hielman and Gregg?

This is not all Lou's fault. A lot of this can be chalked up to players not performing plain and simple. I concede that Lou has been a contributing factor, he's the manager after all. But, this team would not be any better without Lou.

Coldneck · 08-24-2009, 10:14 AM

Scarey just nailed it. Knocked it out of the park.

ruby23 · 08-24-2009, 10:20 AM

QUOTE (Coldneck @ Aug 24 2009, 09:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Scarey just nailed it. Knocked it out of the park.
No he didn't, he made a bunch of excuses. A lot of this can be chalked up to players not performing? Who's job is it to get them to perform? If you get a team, constructed the way you wanted it and the players don't perform, where does the blame go? Lou is as much, if not more to blame, for this team's shitastical performance than anyone else.

Scarey · 08-24-2009, 10:45 AM

QUOTE (ruby23 @ Aug 24 2009, 09:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Who's job is it to get them to perform?

What is he supposed to do to improve their performance? He can tinker with the lineup, which he did. He can personally instruct players like Bradley which he did. He can give them the big motivation speech before every game. Who knows if he did or not, but I would think he did. Even if he didn't give the Knute Rockne speeches, is that really an excuse to let the players have a free pass?

The guy is a baseball manager, not a miracle worker.

***Butcher*** · 08-24-2009, 10:51 AM

You know what I really love about Lou? He manages a pitching staff pretty well. He almost never leaves starters in for too long and he doesn't tolerate pitchers who don't throw strikes. My only complaint is Gregg...and I'm not really sure that's Lou's fault.

I think he tends to over-manage every so often, but every manager does.

I don't have much beef with Lou, to be honest. But I'd like everyone gone. From Hendry all the way down. So that includes Lou.

***rok*** · 08-24-2009, 11:06 AM

I've softened a little on Lou after watching this team crumble over the past month or so. At first, when the team was healthier early in the season, I blamed him for being behind the drastic roster transformation, and wanting so many pointless changes made to a 97 win team that I felt didn't need much tinkering. The problem is that we'll never know how good this team could have been because they were simply never healthy. Maybe we relied on too many physically and mentally fragile players, or maybe we were just unlucky. Whatever. I'm done with this season. I'd like to see big changes for next season, but I think this time we'll just see tinkering. Maybe Hendry is the bigger problem and he needs to grow a pair and not let the manager influence so many of his decisions. I have no idea, but I also am not so sure that a) this current team will ever be healthy for an entire season, and if so b ) they would be good enough to beat the Cardinals at full strength? Our bench blows and our pen is a disaster. The only parts of this team I feel good about are 3B, 1B and the rotation. Theriot needs to be playing 2B, and Fuk can be ok as our CF, but the rest of our team is filled with question marks. I can't blame it all on Lou, but he hasn't helped either. He just looks as though he wants out. He's exasperated, and probably not the right guy for this team when the new owner comes in. I can't separate Lou from Hendry either, so I think overall it's time to go in a different direction with new leadership. This team has the feeling of a sinking ship.

dk123 · 08-24-2009, 11:42 AM

Well, I am repeating myself at this point, but to me, the problem is Hendry more than Lou, although I think Lou hasn't utilized his players that well either. I believe that Hendry is really good when it comes to building a pitching staff. He obviously has an eye for pitching talent, and his reclamation projects have generally worked well. Even this season or offseason, I can't fault any of the pitching moves he made, and the Pittsburgh guys were good pickups. The problem with him is that he just can't build an offense. It's easy to say that guys are under performing, and injured, and that's part of the issue, but at the same time, maybe his moves just haven't been that smart. I mean, are the offensive problems really so shocking?

If you look at the lineup, a case can be made that nothing that surprising is happening. Soriano is well below his career averages, but I'm not that surprised. The guy has never been a model of consistency, and has never been disciplined, and as he gets older and has injury problems, it doesn't surprise me that the hot streaks have gotten smaller and the cold streaks bigger. Bradley was never great as a LH batter anyway, and he is more of an OBP guy than a run producer, although it seems it took Lou like 2/3 of the season to realize that. Fontenot? Is anyone that surprised? Theriot is fine offensively, but he shouldn't be the SS. Soto, I think, we can expect to do better next year, but really, I don't equate any of the other problems to luck.

The point I am trying to make is that while you cant expect a GM to see into the future, it's also not unreasonable to expect them to see certain trends and make adaptations. Hendry has consistently made questionable choices when it has come to both signing FAs, as well as making decisions about which players to keep around. And it might be nice to have a manager that can make adjustments more quickly, and not fuck with things when they are working. And as an aside, I have to wonder....the Cubs have had no problem paying pitchers to play for someone else, why can't they do the same for offensive players. There is no reason that Aaron Miles should be getting playing time, much less pinch hitting in important spots. Why can't they just accept that he was and a mistake and move on? I just think that any one of the particular Lou/Hendry shortcomings or mistakes is perfectly forgivable and understandable. The problem is that when you add everything together, little problems become big ones.

Vine · 08-24-2009, 12:46 PM

Sometimes it seems that the players are going through the motions. How much time does each batter take to "study" an opposing pitcher before each game or even series? Are they basically briefed of tendencies right before the game or merely an hour prior? Situational hitting is pretty darn bad this year and I think Lou should take 50% of the blame. Are scouting reports really that difficult to understand? I wonder if they're written in spanish as well, because Soriano and Soto look like a couple of idiots this year.

In all seriousness, I don't think you can blame Hendry for a lot of this at all. How many times has someone said, "on paper, this team should be kicking ass"? I agree, it should be. Injuries? Sure. Lack of motivation by our manager? Probably. In game managing? Pretty much a joke imo.

***jstraw*** · 08-24-2009, 12:55 PM

QUOTE (Scarey @ Aug 24 2009, 08:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ Aug 24 2009, 07:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Lou may be gone after next year but I'm sure not calling for his head.

I understand that you're not one of the people looking for a new manager, but I think you put up solid arguments that Lou detractors would so I'm going to use your answers.

QUOTE Lou has made a half-dozen or so really weird in-game moves this season...total wtf head-scratchers...

This may be a cop-out but... what manager does NOT make a those questionable in game moves through out the course of an MLB season? Is it really a certainty that a Brenly or a Trammel or who ever will not make questionable moves?</div>

That's my point. The number of head-scratchers is very, very low.

QUOTE (Scarey @ Aug 24 2009, 08:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE and it took him forever to lead off Fuk...and then when that's demonstrably working great...he stops.

I understand why people are upset about Kosuke not hitting leadoff, but the guy has the third highest slugging percentage on the team of our regulars. I certainly understand why he would want to use him lower in the order. I also understand this line of thought contradicts the fact that Alf has been a fixture at the leadoff position for most of his tenure as a Cub, but in the same way why didn't anyone criticize him for having his (at the time Fukudome was leading off) second highest slugging % player batting leadoff?

I still feel like the people complaining about Lou want change for the sake of change, but this team isn't going to get tremendously better or disgustingly worse by switching managers.

Oh, and Ruby... I'm really upset that we didn't have the Lou = Dusty argument at SOITOW.
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No one complained about Fuk leading off because it was working. Worrying about him coming up with all that slugging and no one on base matters once per game. Having a guy with OBP leading off also matters once per game. I still think leading with Bradley and leaving Fuk lower might have worked even better but Fuk leading off worked.

Theriot forgetting about the fence would work too...if he wasn't helpless once he got on base. What's his OBP this year v. last year?

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