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<!--quoteo(post=44194:date=Jun 15 2009, 10:41 AM:name=The Dude)-->QUOTE (The Dude @ Jun 15 2009, 10:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Isn't Von Johua the guy Frank Thomas credits his success to?
I think that was poor sentence structure, but I don't care.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He's not that guy who had the Sox using that weird swing in the 90's is it? You know the one handed tomahawk thingy. And yes, that is what the scouts called it. Look it up.
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<!--quoteo(post=44196:date=Jun 15 2009, 09:46 AM:name=vitaminB)-->QUOTE (vitaminB @ Jun 15 2009, 09:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->So what are you saying, that this is some sort of magic bullet? And I\'m sorry, but have 2 winning seasons, 2 losing seasons, and 2 winning seasons with varying degrees of effectiveness by our offense year in and year out is not what I consider to be a consistent product. 14 straight titles? How about finishing .500 or better year in and year out. We\'ve never done that in my lifetime. The pitching has been about the only thing that has been semi-reliable over the past 6+ years.
Well we'd never been to the playoffs in back to back years in my lifetime. But guess what, now we have. I think you forget just how bad this team always was before Hendry came along.
And career years from almost everyone last seasosn? Like who? Font, TheRiot, Soto, DeRosa, etc...
And I wasn't aware that we only replaced one player from last season. Yep, one everyday starter. Lost one: DeRosa. Added one: Bradley.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So I guess the entire bench doesn't count. DeRosa must have had 3 career years in a row then, if what you're saying is true, and 4 if you count this season. And Font wasn't an everyday player last season, so different role. Soto, it remains to be seen.
And don't ever tell me that I've forgotten how bad this team was before Hendry or even 3 years ago. It's a BS thing to say to anyone on this site.
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<!--quoteo(post=44198:date=Jun 15 2009, 10:53 AM:name=rok)-->QUOTE (rok @ Jun 15 2009, 10:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=44196:date=Jun 15 2009, 09:46 AM:name=vitaminB)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (vitaminB @ Jun 15 2009, 09:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->So what are you saying, that this is some sort of magic bullet? And I\'m sorry, but have 2 winning seasons, 2 losing seasons, and 2 winning seasons with varying degrees of effectiveness by our offense year in and year out is not what I consider to be a consistent product. 14 straight titles? How about finishing .500 or better year in and year out. We\'ve never done that in my lifetime. The pitching has been about the only thing that has been semi-reliable over the past 6+ years.
Well we'd never been to the playoffs in back to back years in my lifetime. But guess what, now we have. I think you forget just how bad this team always was before Hendry came along.
And career years from almost everyone last seasosn? Like who? Font, TheRiot, Soto, DeRosa, etc...
And I wasn't aware that we only replaced one player from last season. Yep, one everyday starter. Lost one: DeRosa. Added one: Bradley.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So I guess the entire bench doesn't count. DeRosa must have had 3 career years in a row then, if what you're saying is true, and 4 if you count this season. And Font wasn't an everyday player last season, so different role. Soto, it remains to be seen.
And don't ever tell me that I've forgotten how bad this team was before Hendry or even 3 years ago. It's a BS thing to say to anyone on this site.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So your theory is that this team cant hit because we have a different backup middle infielder? Or is it cause Hank White is gone?
And if you think that in back to back central titles isnt consistent given the recent history of cubdom then i dont know how to convince you, man.
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<!--quoteo(post=44200:date=Jun 15 2009, 10:02 AM:name=vitaminB)-->QUOTE (vitaminB @ Jun 15 2009, 10:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=44198:date=Jun 15 2009, 10:53 AM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ Jun 15 2009, 10:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=44196:date=Jun 15 2009, 09:46 AM:name=vitaminB)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (vitaminB @ Jun 15 2009, 09:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->So what are you saying, that this is some sort of magic bullet? And I\'m sorry, but have 2 winning seasons, 2 losing seasons, and 2 winning seasons with varying degrees of effectiveness by our offense year in and year out is not what I consider to be a consistent product. 14 straight titles? How about finishing .500 or better year in and year out. We\'ve never done that in my lifetime. The pitching has been about the only thing that has been semi-reliable over the past 6+ years.
Well we'd never been to the playoffs in back to back years in my lifetime. But guess what, now we have. I think you forget just how bad this team always was before Hendry came along.
And career years from almost everyone last seasosn? Like who? Font, TheRiot, Soto, DeRosa, etc...
And I wasn't aware that we only replaced one player from last season. Yep, one everyday starter. Lost one: DeRosa. Added one: Bradley.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So I guess the entire bench doesn't count. DeRosa must have had 3 career years in a row then, if what you're saying is true, and 4 if you count this season. And Font wasn't an everyday player last season, so different role. Soto, it remains to be seen.
And don't ever tell me that I've forgotten how bad this team was before Hendry or even 3 years ago. It's a BS thing to say to anyone on this site.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So your theory is that this team cant hit because we have a different backup middle infielder? Or is it cause Hank White is gone?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Clearly it's all Gerald Perry's fault.
And this organization will be consistent only when they are competitive year in and year out. 2 years is not consistency. 4 out of 6 isn't consistent. If they can be competitive for 5 years in a row, then I'll change my tune.
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Rok, I'm not convinced consistency is possible unless our minor league system produces quality players on a frequent basis. Especially with the future financial commitments of the team. I hope Ricketts places a large emphasis on scouting. I think the obvious model to look at would be the Red Sox. They developed some top talent the last several years. In some cases they traded it to obtain top talent (Hanley) and in others they've developed them into great players (Youkilis, Ellsbury, Pedroia, Lester, Papelbon) They have a large payroll and a significant amount of home grown talent.
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I covet the Red Sox like no other team. They are what we should be and it makes me want to weep whenever I think about it.
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<!--quoteo(post=44092:date=Jun 14 2009, 01:23 PM:name=Clapp)-->QUOTE (Clapp @ Jun 14 2009, 01:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->He's not the problem. Egos are. Perry changed the plate approach of this team. He turned us from a free swinging group into the best on-base percentage team in the league. We've got a bunch of hot headed assfucks that try to hit home runs every bat, namely Theriot and Soriano. They're the problem. Everything is on the players. Disagree with personnel and managing decisions all you want, but the reason we're playing like a bunch of Sallys is because of our richass players not playing like they always have.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Is it not the responsibility of the coaching staff to keep those egos in check? If the players don't have enough respect for the coaches to take their advice, then perhaps a change is warranted. I'm not saying this is all on Perry, because obviously, Lou shares some of that responsibility, but I see this as Hendry sending a message to Lou to get his clubhouse in order. Lou's been way too passive this season.
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<!--quoteo(post=44218:date=Jun 15 2009, 01:06 PM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Jun 15 2009, 01:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I covet the Red Sox like no other team. They are what we should be and it makes me want to weep whenever I think about it.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Instead of weeping lets hire all of their scouts, front office employees, and copy what they do. Pay them a fortune and bring them all over.
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I'm about to feel dirtier than usual.
I find is odd/amusing that people used to love Ryan Theriot. Absolutely love him. And now, he is on pace to improve on every one of his counting stats from last year, save walks (hits, homeruns, doubles, triples...and yes, Ks, though that doesn't push my point) and actually finish the year as a statistically average hitter...and he's now a 'problem'.
Just because he's not hitting groundballs past second base anymore doesn't make him a problem now. I think quite the opposite.
/dirtiness over
As for Gerald Perry, I think tom said it and I couldn't agree more: Hendry can't fire the players. You can make a strong case that in every coaching move ever made, the fired coach is taking a disproportionate amount of the blame. In a completely fair world, it'd have been Milton Bradley getting the ax. That makes no sense in baseball.
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The complacency of Lou, Perry, et. al. is the major problem with this team. Of that, I'm 100% convinced.
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<!--quoteo(post=44225:date=Jun 15 2009, 01:13 PM:name=ruby23)-->QUOTE (ruby23 @ Jun 15 2009, 01:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->The complacency of Lou, Perry, et. al. is the major problem with this team. Of that, I'm 100% convinced.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can't disagree with that.
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<!--quoteo(post=44224:date=Jun 15 2009, 12:12 PM:name=FlyAtTheThigh)-->QUOTE (FlyAtTheThigh @ Jun 15 2009, 12:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I'm about to feel dirtier than usual.
I find is odd/amusing that people used to love Ryan Theriot. Absolutely love him. And now, he is on pace to improve on every one of his counting stats from last year, save walks (hits, homeruns, doubles, triples...and yes, Ks, though that doesn't push my point) and actually finish the year as a statistically average hitter...and he's now a 'problem'.
Just because he's not hitting groundballs past second base anymore doesn't make him a problem now. I think quite the opposite.
/dirtiness over<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He's actually on pace for a couple fewer hits than last year, while on pace to strike out almost 50 more times than last season, and on pace to walk 24 times fewer. His OBP is 40 points lower than last season. That's supposed to be his game, he needs to get on base so the middle of the order can drive him in. If he was the player he was last year, Derrek Lee would have had someone to drive in over the last month and a half.
I suppose you could make an argument that what he's doing now is better. But the other side has a very good argument that he has digressed as a player, too.
The thing you need to remember is that all Cardinals fans and all White Sox fans are very bad people. It's a fact that has been scientifically proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. Being a Cubs fan is the only path to rightousness and piousness. Cardinal and White Sox fans exist to be the dark, diabolical forces that oppose us. They are the yin to our yang, the Joker to our Batman, the demon to our angel, the insurgence to our freedom, the oil to our water, the club to our baby seal. Their happiness occurs only in direct conflict with everything that is pure and good in this world.
-Dirk
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Yeah, Theriot is awful right now. He may be having a better statistical year overall because of his 2 great weeks in early May, but right now he is not good at all.
He isn't walking, he is striking out a ton more, he isn't hitting extra base hits anymore and his average and OBP are down.
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<!--quoteo(post=44226:date=Jun 15 2009, 12:14 PM:name=Coldneck)-->QUOTE (Coldneck @ Jun 15 2009, 12:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=44225:date=Jun 15 2009, 01:13 PM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ Jun 15 2009, 01:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->The complacency of Lou, Perry, et. al. is the major problem with this team. Of that, I'm 100% convinced.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can't disagree with that.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, it is a bizarre coincidence that as Lou and his staff have taken a more passive approach and have lost that aura of urgency, so have the players. It's hard to explain.
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I think they keep seeing that we're only a couple game out as a sign that "we have so much time, let's not panic." But think about it, even though we're that close, there's 5 other teams in the division and the last place team is only 4 games out. We're not chasing just the Brewers like we were in '07, we're going to have to hold off a couple of others for a while at least.
I hate my pretentious sounding username too.
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