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BT, you said...
"the players (and this is important) don't "share" the bulk of the blame. They shoulder pretty much the entire fucking load."
"Hendry has put this team in a position to win."
"But the 2009 Cubs failures are NOT his fault."
... which sounded to me like you place no blame on Hendry at all. I guess I misunderstood.
For me, all these assholes are to blame - players, manager, and the GM. Sure you can try to quantify it if you want (80% on the players, 10% on the manager, 10% on the GM) but what the hell is the point of that? We suck and there is plenty of blame to go around.
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BT, let me be clear, I agree with you for the most part. Under normal circumstances, I couldn't disagree with any of your points. This is a special case though, since we came off of such a great year in 08. I do think most managers are overrated. My point was that this offseason, and actually for the past few, it appears to me that Lou is the one calling the shots and guiding Hendry as to how to construct this team. You can't really separate Lou from Hendry at this point. So if Hendry shoulders a ton of the blame for putting this team together with a lot less depth and this convoluted idea of balanced handedness, then so does Lou. His in game decision making doesn't even bother me as much as the decision making in the front office. Firing someone may or may not do anything, but you can't fire the entire team.
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I think it's pretty commonplace today to just assume that the media has an axe to grind. If Lou doesn't sit Bradley down, he's tolerating negative and disruptive behavior, if he sends him home, he's taking away from the team in another manner.
I've read quite a bit lately about firing Lou, and problems all over the team. No one can argue that the buck stops ultimately with Lou (and Hendry) but in my opinion the culture of the team and it's fan base has changed so significantly since the hiring of Dusty Baker and the let down in 2003. Speaking from my personal experience, I too no longer am satisfied with simply having a great regular season and then tinkering around in the playoffs, BUT, one must review the overall ability to bring a plan together and ask themsevles if they believe leadership is capable of delivering that plan to fruition and if not, if there is anyone else on the market who you believe is BETTER than what you have.
It is furhtermore my belief that when you look at teams with long standing degrees of winning and success you see a long standing manager in their place who did not have immediate success but brought about an attitude of professionalism (see "The Bradley adjustment") and winning as an expectation. I'll point to the Yankees in recent memory with Torre and Atlanta. Sports over the last 20 years has been under the idology of 'change is better' (I won't even get into the political aspects related to that statement) but in my view, once a leader has proven their ability to win consistantly it is a matter of bringing together the right peices to the puzzle in order to complete the ultimate goal.
My point is, it's easy to point fingers and assign blame due to frustration but the reality is all Lou has done since he's gotten here is win. Is it enough, no, absolutely not but I believe in the grand scheme of things simply changing managers isn't the answer to this question. We thought that when Dusty got here and everyone jumped on him as things imploded, we switched to Lou and everyone praised his name. Lou brought about quite a bit of consistancy and an expectation that the division, if not a wild card spot was ours, and Hendry has done a great job (a few twists and turns aside) bringing in the talent that was available to attempt to win.
The harsh reality is that winning it all is promised to no one. Success is not gaurenteed, nor do I personally see any magical formula in leadership changes that will somehow magically loft us into the World Series. What I do see is over a century of frustration and a culture in which frustration comes quickly, and jubilation is short lived. We have tried every single nitpicking, pissed off attempt to "fix" the situation and the feeling that I am left with at this point is that the resources are there, the people are in place, and it's up to the players and coaching staff to perform to their highest level (which I don't think anyone here thinks the Cubs are currently playing at) and give it their all. Personally, that's all I really can ask out of anyone. There is not a shred of belief in me that Lou does not want to win at, and focus on obtaining the highest level of success.
We've sent messages, we've made huge trades, we've increased payroll to astronomical levels, we've changed broadcasters, and in the end we continue to point fingers at what's wrong but never seem to implement the final solution. Perhaps chasing our tails is what we truly want to do...because none of the common place adjustments that we have made over the last 10 years has seemed to work.
Or perhaps we should stop blaming, bitching, whining and moaning and buckle down, ask that the players work harder, keep their heads up, support the team to the best of our ability, and stop thinking that the grass is greener on the other side....
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Any manager who pens in Soriano at the top of the line-up every fricken day, is not wise in my book.
This team maybe has won with Lou, but definitely not because of him. I don't think I've ever seen a scenario where he out-managed someone. His lineups are hardly inspiring and until yesterday, he never sent a direct message to a player.
Building on that, he's let people like Bradley bitch all year. Remember when Bradley blamed the umps for his hitting woes? That reaks of the Dusty Baker years when Kent Merker wanted to fight Stone and Carray for being too critical in the booth.
If I'm the manager and one of my players makes a pussy excuse like that, he can grab some fuckin' bench right away.
I'm sorry, but in order for this team to get to the next level, a managerial change is due.
"Last year, I was sort of a kid and I was a little scared, I ain't scared any more."
Quote:- Hank Aaron
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I just love how fucking fickle everyone is. Nobody likes the way Lou manages? WHERE THE FUCK WHERE YOU LAST YEAR?
Lou is not the cause of this year's shit. It's a collective effort, and for those that think showing him the door is the answer to our problems, you are sorely mistaken.
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<!--quoteo(post=46669:date=Jun 27 2009, 02:57 PM:name=Scarey)-->QUOTE (Scarey @ Jun 27 2009, 02:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I just love how fucking fickle everyone is. Nobody likes the way Lou manages? WHERE THE FUCK WHERE YOU LAST YEAR?
Lou is not the cause of this year's shit. It's a collective effort, and for those that think showing him the door is the answer to our problems, you are sorely mistaken.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was right here questioning his in game decisions from day one and calling him Dusty 2.0 long before he even got here.
Also, if you don't think the general lethergy, lack of fundamentals, misguided tantrums, and passive attitude of this team can't be directly correlated to their leader, I don't know what to tell you.
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I would have been here last year...
...but the gates weren't open.
"Last year, I was sort of a kid and I was a little scared, I ain't scared any more."
Quote:- Hank Aaron
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<!--quoteo(post=46672:date=Jun 27 2009, 03:31 PM:name=ruby23)-->QUOTE (ruby23 @ Jun 27 2009, 03:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=46669:date=Jun 27 2009, 02:57 PM:name=Scarey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Jun 27 2009, 02:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I just love how fucking fickle everyone is. Nobody likes the way Lou manages? WHERE THE FUCK WHERE YOU LAST YEAR?
Lou is not the cause of this year's shit. It's a collective effort, and for those that think showing him the door is the answer to our problems, you are sorely mistaken.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was right here questioning his in game decisions from day one and calling him Dusty 2.0 long before he even got here.
Also, if you don't think the general lethergy, lack of fundamentals, misguided tantrums, and passive attitude of this team can't be directly correlated to their leader, I don't know what to tell you.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's also unfair to say that a manager is above criticism just because his team had success for a few seasons. It's a new season, not 2008 and not 2007. People do make mistakes, and they should be called out on them. Piniella is not beyond reproach. It still seems to me that he had no idea what he was getting himself into by coming to Chicago.
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ESPN Story
Did anyone see this?
What a puss!
<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->"I apologized for the last comment I made, told him he knows in the context I meant it," Piniella said.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What did he say?
"Last year, I was sort of a kid and I was a little scared, I ain't scared any more."
Quote:- Hank Aaron
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<!--quoteo(post=46736:date=Jun 27 2009, 05:47 PM:name=BackyardLegend)-->QUOTE (BackyardLegend @ Jun 27 2009, 05:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--> ESPN Story
Did anyone see this?
What a puss!
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <!--quotec-->"I apologized for the last comment I made, told him he knows in the context I meant it," Piniella said.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What did he say?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lou said he was a piece of shit
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This is pure speculation, but I'm guessing that Milton has been telling Lou that he's fine and healthy and Lou has kept sending him out there to lay an egg every game.
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If anyone should be canned, it's Hendry. Lou is mediocre, but I don't think it really matters that much.
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Wojciechowsk blasted Lou in an article this evening, its on the front page of ESPN
Link
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<!--quoteo(post=46797:date=Jun 28 2009, 12:28 AM:name=Fella)-->QUOTE (Fella @ Jun 28 2009, 12:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Wojciechowsk blasted Lou in an article this evening, its on the front page of ESPN
Link<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Pretty good article actually. Like most articles, I agree and disagree with various points. Comparing Bradley's tirades to those of Zambrano, Lilly and Dempster is wrong. Z may blow up every 3-4 starts, Lilly's blown up, what, once? Dempster, the same. Seems as if Bradley's blown up every other game since the first homestand and it gets old. Is Lou actually defending his actions by saying that other players in the dugout could get injured by his tirades? Never heard that one before.
I do LOVE the comparison of Bradley vs. Soriano though. Soriano has been a piece of shit more often than Bradley has IMO and I think we were all a bit shocked to hear him speak out regarding Bradley 2 days ago. Just shut up Soriano.
Finally, Z will always be protected on this team and anyone who didn't learn this after the Barrett/Z debacle remains in the dark.
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