Bradley

[Ace]

<!--quoteo(post=70844:date=Dec 6 2009, 11:21 AM:name=BT)-->QUOTE (BT @ Dec 6 2009, 11:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=70841:date=Dec 6 2009, 07:57 AM:name=Ace)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ace @ Dec 6 2009, 07:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=70833:date=Dec 5 2009, 11:29 PM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Dec 5 2009, 11:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=70817:date=Dec 5 2009, 06:34 PM:name=Ace)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ace @ Dec 5 2009, 06:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=70815:date=Dec 5 2009, 07:24 PM:name=veryzer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (veryzer @ Dec 5 2009, 07:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->It's gonna be Cameron and a middling pitcher and that's it. Next year is gonna be grim.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

And yet we'll have the highest payroll in the NL. It's embarrassing, really.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


and we won 83 games with ARam, Soriano, Soto, Bradley and Zambrano all missing large chunks of the season (for one reason or another). I'm not saying signing Cameron makes us a great team, but some of you guys are acting like we lost 100 games last year.
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What's that, almost $2 million per win? That's embarrassing no matter how injuries play out. The Cubs were snakebit, but other teams were, too.

The idea that we're going to lose Harden and Bradley (and to a lesser extent Gregg, Heilman, and Fox), not add anything of significant productive value, and somehow be better next year is quite optimistic.
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We'd be adding half a season of a healthy ARam, 2/3rds of a season of a healthy Soriano, replacing Bradley with Cameron and Harden with someone probably worse than him. I'm not saying the Yankees should be shitting themselves, but as Clapp said, it's not unreasonable to think we will be better with just the guys on our team being healthy.


Interestingly, it's 1.6 million per win for the Cubs. The team closest to 2 million per win? The Yankees. I'm guessing they aren't too embarrassed.
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Given that the Yankees spend more millions than there are games in a season, that will always be true. And since they just won the World Series, no, they probably aren't too embarrassed. Us? We won 83 games and missed the playoffs. That's embarrassing.

Do you even know what point you're making? That point cuts in favor of spending and adding MORE. Not less.

[vitaminB]

All right. I'm bored so lets go with possible lineups:

RHP

1. Koske
2. The Riot
3. DLee
4. ARam
5. Soriano
6. Castillo
7. Soto
8. Fuld

LHP
1. Castillo
2. The Riot
3. D-Lee
4. ARam
5. Soriano
6. Cameron
7. Soto
8. Koske

SP
1. Zambrano R 2. Dempster R 3. Lilly L 4. Wells R 5. Gorzellany L

That team could win 95 in the central, and allow us to stockpile our farm system. Thoughts?

[Dave]

<!--quoteo(post=70827:date=Dec 5 2009, 09:59 PM:name=Ace)-->QUOTE (Ace @ Dec 5 2009, 09:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=70826:date=Dec 5 2009, 10:05 PM:name=Dave)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dave @ Dec 5 2009, 10:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Wasn't everyone saying Granderson would need a right-handed platoon partner? Hello Mike Cameron.

I can dream, cant I?

And it says something about the sad state of the Cubs that my dream consists of Granderson and Cameron platooning in center.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

If they played up to their statistical pasts, that would be the most productive center fielder in baseball. So... I'd say that's ok to dream of.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My problem is that I'm not too comfortable expecting Mike Cameron to play up to his past as a full-time player, and since he's been an everyday player for a long now, I'm not sure he'd come to the Cubs to warm the bench until they faced a lefty if we picked Granderson up as well.

[BT]

<!--quoteo(post=70845:date=Dec 6 2009, 10:39 AM:name=Ace)-->QUOTE (Ace @ Dec 6 2009, 10:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=70844:date=Dec 6 2009, 11:21 AM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Dec 6 2009, 11:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=70841:date=Dec 6 2009, 07:57 AM:name=Ace)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ace @ Dec 6 2009, 07:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=70833:date=Dec 5 2009, 11:29 PM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Dec 5 2009, 11:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=70817:date=Dec 5 2009, 06:34 PM:name=Ace)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ace @ Dec 5 2009, 06:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=70815:date=Dec 5 2009, 07:24 PM:name=veryzer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (veryzer @ Dec 5 2009, 07:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->It's gonna be Cameron and a middling pitcher and that's it. Next year is gonna be grim.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

And yet we'll have the highest payroll in the NL. It's embarrassing, really.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


and we won 83 games with ARam, Soriano, Soto, Bradley and Zambrano all missing large chunks of the season (for one reason or another). I'm not saying signing Cameron makes us a great team, but some of you guys are acting like we lost 100 games last year.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

What's that, almost $2 million per win? That's embarrassing no matter how injuries play out. The Cubs were snakebit, but other teams were, too.

The idea that we're going to lose Harden and Bradley (and to a lesser extent Gregg, Heilman, and Fox), not add anything of significant productive value, and somehow be better next year is quite optimistic.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


We'd be adding half a season of a healthy ARam, 2/3rds of a season of a healthy Soriano, replacing Bradley with Cameron and Harden with someone probably worse than him. I'm not saying the Yankees should be shitting themselves, but as Clapp said, it's not unreasonable to think we will be better with just the guys on our team being healthy.


Interestingly, it's 1.6 million per win for the Cubs. The team closest to 2 million per win? The Yankees. I'm guessing they aren't too embarrassed.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Given that the Yankees spend more millions than there are games in a season, that will always be true. And since they just won the World Series, no, they probably aren't too embarrassed. Us? We won 83 games and missed the playoffs. That's embarrassing.

Do you even know what point you're making? That point cuts in favor of spending and adding MORE. Not less.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I do know what point I'm making. I'm much more concerned with the 83 wins than I am with how much money it took to get there. The Cubs lost more money to guys on the DL than anyone but 3 teams. And that is not counting the 4 months Sorano played while hurt. That goes a long way toward explaining the dollars per win. Dollars per win isn't useless, but by itself it really doesn't come close to telling the entire story.

[Ace]

<!--quoteo(post=70860:date=Dec 6 2009, 02:27 PM:name=BT)-->QUOTE (BT @ Dec 6 2009, 02:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=70845:date=Dec 6 2009, 10:39 AM:name=Ace)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ace @ Dec 6 2009, 10:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=70844:date=Dec 6 2009, 11:21 AM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Dec 6 2009, 11:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=70841:date=Dec 6 2009, 07:57 AM:name=Ace)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ace @ Dec 6 2009, 07:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=70833:date=Dec 5 2009, 11:29 PM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Dec 5 2009, 11:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=70817:date=Dec 5 2009, 06:34 PM:name=Ace)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ace @ Dec 5 2009, 06:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=70815:date=Dec 5 2009, 07:24 PM:name=veryzer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (veryzer @ Dec 5 2009, 07:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->It's gonna be Cameron and a middling pitcher and that's it. Next year is gonna be grim.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

And yet we'll have the highest payroll in the NL. It's embarrassing, really.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


and we won 83 games with ARam, Soriano, Soto, Bradley and Zambrano all missing large chunks of the season (for one reason or another). I'm not saying signing Cameron makes us a great team, but some of you guys are acting like we lost 100 games last year.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

What's that, almost $2 million per win? That's embarrassing no matter how injuries play out. The Cubs were snakebit, but other teams were, too.

The idea that we're going to lose Harden and Bradley (and to a lesser extent Gregg, Heilman, and Fox), not add anything of significant productive value, and somehow be better next year is quite optimistic.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


We'd be adding half a season of a healthy ARam, 2/3rds of a season of a healthy Soriano, replacing Bradley with Cameron and Harden with someone probably worse than him. I'm not saying the Yankees should be shitting themselves, but as Clapp said, it's not unreasonable to think we will be better with just the guys on our team being healthy.


Interestingly, it's 1.6 million per win for the Cubs. The team closest to 2 million per win? The Yankees. I'm guessing they aren't too embarrassed.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Given that the Yankees spend more millions than there are games in a season, that will always be true. And since they just won the World Series, no, they probably aren't too embarrassed. Us? We won 83 games and missed the playoffs. That's embarrassing.

Do you even know what point you're making? That point cuts in favor of spending and adding MORE. Not less.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I do know what point I'm making. I'm much more concerned with the 83 wins than I am with how much money it took to get there. The Cubs lost more money to guys on the DL than anyone but 3 teams. And that is not counting the 4 months Sorano played while hurt. That goes a long way toward explaining the dollars per win. Dollars per win isn't useless, but by itself it really doesn't come close to telling the entire story.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

And I guess I only buy the injury excuse if injuries were the reason that Soriano and Soto were so god-awful when they actually played. And I'm not convinced it was due to injuries. I think the injuries really hurt the Cubs, but outside of ARam, I don't think there was an injury I can point to and say this is why the team was so shitty. I think there were just a lot of really expensive parts that performed like shit.

We can, of course, <i>hope </i>that next year is different. But wouldn't it be nice to make a move (like adding Curtis Granderson) that takes an affirmative step toward <i>making </i>things different next year?

I think I'm just really pissed off that the Cubs might dump Bradley, not go after a starting pitcher, and not make a serious play for Granderson.

[veryzer]

And that's it. Who's gonna pitch next year? Zambrano is good, Dempster is decent, Lilly is hurt, Wells is a huge ?, and who knows next. Toss in a Cameron and next year is gonna be grim.

[Andy]

I'd love to see a $ per win for the entire league.

I will say it's crazy how negative we are as a message board.

[BT]

<!--quoteo(post=70878:date=Dec 7 2009, 08:49 AM:name=Andy)-->QUOTE (Andy @ Dec 7 2009, 08:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I'd love to see a $ per win for the entire league.

I will say it's crazy how negative we are as a message board.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I don't want to you guys to get the wrong idea. I think we might have our worst team in 3 years, but I just don't think an 85 win team outlook is grim. Disappointing sure.

Here you go Andy. No surprise the Cubs and Mets are bad. What IS surprising is how bad the Sox are and how little shit KW gets for that.

[Dirk]

<!--quoteo(post=70880:date=Dec 7 2009, 10:42 AM:name=BT)-->QUOTE (BT @ Dec 7 2009, 10:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=70878:date=Dec 7 2009, 08:49 AM:name=Andy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Andy @ Dec 7 2009, 08:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I'd love to see a $ per win for the entire league.

I will say it's crazy how negative we are as a message board.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I don't want to you guys to get the wrong idea. I think we might have our worst team in 3 years, but I just don't think an 85 win team outlook is grim. Disappointing sure.

Here you go Andy. No surprise the Cubs and Mets are bad. What IS surprising is how bad the Sox are and how little shit KW gets for that.



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The Cubs had a higher payroll than the Red Sox??? Damn.

[ColoradoCub]

The Muskrat is in on all the hot rumors...

<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->CarrieMuskat: Word in the lobby at Indy Marriott is 3rd team talking with #cubs re: Milton Bradley is #mets. They'd like to move 2B Luis Castillo<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Tell me something I don't know

[The Dude]

I wonder if Sullivan and Muskrat ever bone.

[kbwsb]

I don't want to lose Milt, but I have to admit that having him play in the Big Apple would be high comedy.

[Dirk]

<grain of salt>I guess there's some speculation that the Burrell/Bradly/Castillio trade has already gone down. </grain of salt>
http://www.prosportsdaily.com/comments/bur...ets-304112.html

[Butcher]

<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->ESPN Chicago’s Bruce Levine says sources have told him that reports that the Cubs traded for Tampa Bay’s Pat Burrell then shipped him to the Mets is completely erroneous.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[Butcher]

<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->Also, Levine says the Cubs and Royals have had discussions about finding possible salary matches for Milton Bradley.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->