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<!--quoteo(post=56969:date=Aug 11 2009, 08:39 AM:name=veryzer)-->QUOTE (veryzer @ Aug 11 2009, 08:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=56910:date=Aug 10 2009, 09:03 PM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ Aug 10 2009, 09:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Cub's payroll: $143 million
DeRo's salary over Miles: $3 million
Yeah, it was a fucking stupid decision.
And once and for all, please just admit that Miles was brought in to replace DeRo. He was signed the SAME DAY that DeRo was inexplicably traded. His role on the Cardinals the year before was <i>exactly</i> like DeRo's with the Cubs: super utility guy who can fill in at a plethora of positions.
Last year, DeRo played 65 games in the outfield for us, 22 at 3B, as well as 1B and SS, so don't tell me he was our fucking 2nd baseman.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
derosa was our fucking 2nd baseman and had he not been traded would have played mostly 2nd base this year. MILES DID NOT REPLACE DEROSA. FONTENOT REPLACED DEROSA.
follow along: DEROSA WAS NOT TRADED TO MAKE ROOM FOR MILES. to think that is absolutely retarded. drosa was traded to make room for bradley. fontenot was given the 2nd base job. miles was brought in to be a backup. it's so simple.
hendry never once thought that miles was going to bring to the table what derosa did. he thought fontenot might, but not miles.
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[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ruby.gif[/img] [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ruby.gif[/img] [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ruby.gif[/img] [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ruby.gif[/img] [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ruby.gif[/img] [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ruby.gif[/img] [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ruby.gif[/img] [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ruby.gif[/img] [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ruby.gif[/img] [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ruby.gif[/img] [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ruby.gif[/img] [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ruby.gif[/img] [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ruby.gif[/img]
There's nothing better than to realize that the good things about youth don't end with youth itself. It's a matter of realizing that life can be renewed every day you get out of bed without baggage. It's tough to get there, but it's better than the dark thoughts. -Lance
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<!--quoteo(post=57046:date=Aug 11 2009, 03:48 PM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ Aug 11 2009, 03:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=56969:date=Aug 11 2009, 08:39 AM:name=veryzer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (veryzer @ Aug 11 2009, 08:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=56910:date=Aug 10 2009, 09:03 PM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ Aug 10 2009, 09:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Cub's payroll: $143 million
DeRo's salary over Miles: $3 million
Yeah, it was a fucking stupid decision.
And once and for all, please just admit that Miles was brought in to replace DeRo. He was signed the SAME DAY that DeRo was inexplicably traded. His role on the Cardinals the year before was <i>exactly</i> like DeRo's with the Cubs: super utility guy who can fill in at a plethora of positions.
Last year, DeRo played 65 games in the outfield for us, 22 at 3B, as well as 1B and SS, so don't tell me he was our fucking 2nd baseman.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
derosa was our fucking 2nd baseman and had he not been traded would have played mostly 2nd base this year. MILES DID NOT REPLACE DEROSA. FONTENOT REPLACED DEROSA.
follow along: DEROSA WAS NOT TRADED TO MAKE ROOM FOR MILES. to think that is absolutely retarded. drosa was traded to make room for bradley. fontenot was given the 2nd base job. miles was brought in to be a backup. it's so simple.
hendry never once thought that miles was going to bring to the table what derosa did. he thought fontenot might, but not miles.
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Hi. Instead of just saying wrong, how about ... you know ... disproving it.
I know you won't be able to, since it's right on the money, so I'll wait for more [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ruby.gif[/img]
This is not some silly theory that's unsupported and deserves being mocked by photos of Xena. ![[Image: ITgoyeg.png]](http://i.imgur.com/ITgoyeg.png)
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Because to imply that "DeRosa was the Cub's 2nd Baseman in 2008," and to deny that he played <b>89 games</b> at 5 other positions is so <i>preposterous</i> that it doesn't need explaining.
Last year, Cedeno and Fontenot played more games, and more innings at 2nd base than DeRosa did.
There's nothing better than to realize that the good things about youth don't end with youth itself. It's a matter of realizing that life can be renewed every day you get out of bed without baggage. It's tough to get there, but it's better than the dark thoughts. -Lance
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<!--quoteo(post=57189:date=Aug 11 2009, 09:25 PM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ Aug 11 2009, 09:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Because to imply that "DeRosa was the Cub's 2nd Baseman in 2008," and to deny that he played <b>89 games</b> at 5 other positions is so preposterous that it doesn't need explaining.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It goes both ways though KB, if he wasn't a 2B/IF then why was he replaced (your words) with a guy who only plays IF?
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Baron, that's exactly what I'm asking. Who in their right mind would think that Miles = DeRosa? And yet, that's obviously what Jim thought.
(or do you see zero connection with us dishing out $5 million bucks to Miles on the same day that we shitcanned DeRo?)
There's nothing better than to realize that the good things about youth don't end with youth itself. It's a matter of realizing that life can be renewed every day you get out of bed without baggage. It's tough to get there, but it's better than the dark thoughts. -Lance
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<!--quoteo(post=57228:date=Aug 11 2009, 10:44 PM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ Aug 11 2009, 10:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Baron, that's exactly what I'm asking. Who in their right mind would think that Miles = DeRosa? And yet, that's obviously what Jim thought.
(or do you see zero connection with us dishing out $5 million bucks to Miles on the same day that we shitcanned DeRo?)<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This might be your most maddening argument ever.
"I don't need to prove X, because nobody in their right mind would believe X, but clearly X."
This is not some silly theory that's unsupported and deserves being mocked by photos of Xena.
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Kid, I'm confused. Are you saying:
a-you think the Miles signing was a good move?
b-you think signing Miles was a poor move?
Let me guess...hmm...you'll say "neither," despite this being a yes-no question.
(Not that I would necessarily blame you; I honestly don't even remember what the whole argument is even <i>about</i>. But to me, it's about the above question.)
There's nothing better than to realize that the good things about youth don't end with youth itself. It's a matter of realizing that life can be renewed every day you get out of bed without baggage. It's tough to get there, but it's better than the dark thoughts. -Lance
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I didn't and don't like the Miles signing, but that's not the point.
The point is you're making a giant leap (Miles was brought in to replace DeRosa) in the face of direct media reports that that wasn't the case and incontrovertible evidence that it's not the case (Fontenot got DeRosa's playing time, not Miles; DeRosa was primarily a 2B/OF, while Miles is a utility infielder; DeRosa started the vast majority of the time, Miles doesn't).
This is not some silly theory that's unsupported and deserves being mocked by photos of Xena.
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<!--quoteo(post=57242:date=Aug 11 2009, 10:01 PM:name=Kid)-->QUOTE (Kid @ Aug 11 2009, 10:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I didn't and don't like the Miles signing, but that's not the point.
The point is you're making a giant leap (Miles was brought in to replace DeRosa) in the face of direct media reports that that wasn't the case and incontrovertible evidence that it's not the case (Fontenot got DeRosa's playing time, not Miles; DeRosa was primarily a 2B/OF, while Miles is a utility infielder; DeRosa started the vast majority of the time, Miles doesn't).<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Media reports? I think we all know how close to the truth what a ball team's front office "says" is to the actual truth.
I'm basing my view on the fact that in 2008, we had a utility guy who was heavily needed. Many thought that his versatility made him the team MVP of a team that won 97 games.
On the same exact day that he was traded, we signed Miles, a utility player, to a $5 million dollar deal, which is HUGE money for a utility player. Yet we did it.
If you want to buy the company line that these two events are totally and completely unrelated, and have nothing whatsoever to do with each other, fine. But I don't think I'm making a "giant leap" by connecting the dots.
There's nothing better than to realize that the good things about youth don't end with youth itself. It's a matter of realizing that life can be renewed every day you get out of bed without baggage. It's tough to get there, but it's better than the dark thoughts. -Lance
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<!--quoteo(post=57252:date=Aug 11 2009, 10:15 PM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ Aug 11 2009, 10:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=57242:date=Aug 11 2009, 10:01 PM:name=Kid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid @ Aug 11 2009, 10:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I didn't and don't like the Miles signing, but that's not the point.
The point is you're making a giant leap (Miles was brought in to replace DeRosa) in the face of direct media reports that that wasn't the case and incontrovertible evidence that it's not the case (Fontenot got DeRosa's playing time, not Miles; DeRosa was primarily a 2B/OF, while Miles is a utility infielder; DeRosa started the vast majority of the time, Miles doesn't).<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Media reports? I think we all know how close to the truth what a ball team's front office "says" is to the actual truth.
I'm basing my view on the fact that in 2008, we had a utility guy who was heavily needed. Many thought that his versatility made him the team MVP of a team that won 97 games.
On the same exact day that he was traded, we signed Miles, a utility player, to a $5 million dollar deal, which is HUGE money for a utility player. Yet we did it.
If you want to buy the company line that these two events are totally and completely unrelated, and have nothing whatsoever to do with each other, fine. But I don't think I'm making a "giant leap" by connecting the dots.
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*Sigh* but Miles isn't a utility player in the sense DeRosa was. He DOES NOT play the OF. He was signed to back up the IF spots and compete for playing time with Fontenot at second base.
![[Image: 2hz4sk2.jpg]](http://i35.tinypic.com/2hz4sk2.jpg)
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Sigh.
Then what was the reason for trading DeRosa? To rebuild through the farm with 3 young pitchers?
Please don't say "to save money for Bradley/Peavy/Pujols, whomever." Because that SAME day we wasted $5 million on Miles.
There's nothing better than to realize that the good things about youth don't end with youth itself. It's a matter of realizing that life can be renewed every day you get out of bed without baggage. It's tough to get there, but it's better than the dark thoughts. -Lance
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<!--quoteo(post=57259:date=Aug 11 2009, 10:21 PM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ Aug 11 2009, 10:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Sigh.
Then what was the reason for trading DeRosa? To rebuild through the farm with 3 young pitchers.
Please don't say "to save money for Bradley/Peavy/Pujols, whomever." Because that SAME day we wasted $5 million on Miles.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Partially to save money, partially to get Fontenot some ABs, partially to "get more left handed" or some nonsense like that.
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<!--quoteo(post=57262:date=Aug 11 2009, 10:23 PM:name=Baron)-->QUOTE (Baron @ Aug 11 2009, 10:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=57259:date=Aug 11 2009, 10:21 PM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ Aug 11 2009, 10:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Sigh.
Then what was the reason for trading DeRosa? To rebuild through the farm with 3 young pitchers.
Please don't say "to save money for Bradley/Peavy/Pujols, whomever." Because that SAME day we wasted $5 million on Miles.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Partially to save money, partially to get Fontenot some ABs, partially to "get more left handed" or some nonsense like that.
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Yeah, that makes sense. I agree, it's nonsense, but it's probably true.
I have to change my thinking on this. I keep thinking Jim made one colossally bad decision (replace DeRosa with Miles). In actuality, it appears, he made two <i>different</i> bad decisions: trading the team MVP for 3 minor-leaguers, then vastly overpaying for the pitiful Miles.
There's nothing better than to realize that the good things about youth don't end with youth itself. It's a matter of realizing that life can be renewed every day you get out of bed without baggage. It's tough to get there, but it's better than the dark thoughts. -Lance
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I think we all clearly agree Hendry was a dumbass, we just differ as to how. And in the end, does it even matter?
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<!--quoteo(post=57268:date=Aug 11 2009, 10:37 PM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ Aug 11 2009, 10:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=57262:date=Aug 11 2009, 10:23 PM:name=Baron)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Baron @ Aug 11 2009, 10:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=57259:date=Aug 11 2009, 10:21 PM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ Aug 11 2009, 10:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Sigh.
Then what was the reason for trading DeRosa? To rebuild through the farm with 3 young pitchers.
Please don't say "to save money for Bradley/Peavy/Pujols, whomever." Because that SAME day we wasted $5 million on Miles.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Partially to save money, partially to get Fontenot some ABs, partially to "get more left handed" or some nonsense like that.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, that makes sense. I agree, it's nonsense, but it's probably true.
I have to change my thinking on this. I keep thinking Jim made one colossally bad decision (replace DeRosa with Miles). In actuality, it appears, he made two <i>different</i> bad decisions: trading the team MVP for 3 minor-leaguers, then vastly overpaying for the pitiful Miles.
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<!--quoteo(post=57326:date=Aug 12 2009, 09:50 AM:name=The Dude)-->QUOTE (The Dude @ Aug 12 2009, 09:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I think we all clearly agree Hendry was a dumbass, we just differ as to how. And in the end, does it even matter?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Do we all agree and will we always do so? History is in revision constantly. Already this explanation soft-pedals the whole freeing up payroll to sign Bradley thing. Marquis and DeRosa are gone to pay for Bradley and that's now down to "partially to save money."
Bradley is performing NOW but when he wasn't this was a completely different conversation. NOW the Bradley signing isn't the big Hendry fuckup...and I hope it never is again...but it could be and may well be before his contract is up.
Lou wanted a bat. Hendry decided it was Bradley to the exclusion of anyone else. Valuable assets were leveraged to acquire Bradley. For a long time that signing looked like a total train wreck. At the moment it doesn't.
Regardless of who was supposed to take who's spot on the field, DeRosa wasn't let go to get Miles...or to get Font more ABs...or to get "more left-handed"...or to save money. It was part of an equation to specifically get Bradley.
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