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<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->Regardless of who was supposed to take who's spot on the field, DeRosa wasn't let go to get Miles...or to get Font more ABs...or to get "more left-handed"...or to save money. It was part of an equation to specifically get Bradley.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So trading away DeRo was part of the equation to get Bradley, but money wasn't part of the equation? So in your theory Hendry goes, "I'm thinking of signing Milton Bradley. And then DeRosa goes, "Seriously, Jim I can't play with anyone named Milton Bradley. That goes for Coco Crisp as well. I just can't do it. You'll have to trade me."
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I hate that I'm going to get sucked into this again...
- I see no reason (financially or otherwise) that we couldn't keep DeRosa and Bradley. When you look at how much money we saved by dumping DeRosa, it simply doesn't add up. $3M wasn't going to stand in the way of us signing Bradley. When you look at Bradley's contract (3/30) and total team payroll (over $140M), nobody can tell me with a straight face that $3M was going to prevent Hendry from making that move. If you want to argue the whole "handedness" thing, then fine. "Second base was the only place we could get more left-handed" was a quote I heard from Hendry. Unfortunately, that makes the move even more retarded.
- Signing Bradley (regardless of how healthy he has been this season) made DeRosa MORE valuable to the 2009 Cubs. Not less valuable.
To boil it down to its simplest points:
1. Trading DeRosa for prospects that aren't going to impact the team this year was a bad move.
2. Trading DeRosa for prospects in order to make a Peavy trade, without having that deal in the bag already, was a bad move.
3. Handing a 28-year-old part-time player the starting 2B role because he hits lefty and has had a little success in limited time was a bad move.
4. Signing Aaron Miles to a 2-year, $5M contract was a bad move (regardless of who he was or wasn't replacing).
I thought the Bradley signing was a good risk and I liked the move. But that was contingent on us NOT trading DeRosa. When you're signing an insanely talented, but also incredibly brittle player, it's wise to have a pretty solid backup option. And we had that guy on our roster. And we traded him for horseshit. It was stupid. There's no way around that.
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the bottom line is this: derosa played 150-something games last year, be it 2nd base, outfield, or vendor. miles hasn't, doesn't, and will never play that many games. derosa was a starter, miles is a backup. miles did not replace derosa.
everyone in the universe knows this but kb.
Wang.
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<!--quoteo(post=57338:date=Aug 12 2009, 10:57 AM:name=veryzer)-->QUOTE (veryzer @ Aug 12 2009, 10:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->the bottom line is this: derosa played 150-something games last year, be it 2nd base, outfield, or vendor. miles hasn't, doesn't, and will never play that many games. derosa was a starter, miles is a backup. miles did not replace derosa.
everyone in the universe knows this but kb.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is kind of a separate argument, though. But I'll chime in anyway.
Miles replaced DeRosa only in the sense that DeRosa left the team and Miles joined the team. The largest role Miles was ever going to have was Fontenot's platoon partner. But he made it pretty clear that he blows. And then he got hurt. And now he's the most expensive 25th man in baseball.
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<!--quoteo(post=57337:date=Aug 12 2009, 10:50 AM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Aug 12 2009, 10:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->To boil it down to its simplest points:
1. Trading DeRosa for prospects that aren't going to impact the team this year was a bad move.
2. Trading DeRosa for prospects in order to make a Peavy trade, without having that deal in the bag already, was a bad move.
3. Handing a 28-year-old part-time player the starting 2B role because he hits lefty and has had a little success in limited time was a bad move.
4. Signing Aaron Miles to a 2-year, $5M contract was a bad move (regardless of who he was or wasn't replacing).
I thought the Bradley signing was a good risk and I liked the move. But that was contingent on us NOT trading DeRosa. When you're signing an insanely talented, but also incredibly brittle player, it's wise to have a pretty solid backup option. And we had that guy on our roster. And we traded him for horseshit. It was stupid. There's no way around that.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well said. And basically if we had signed Hudson (who makes all of $3.4M) instead of Miles, I think we would have been OK even with the DeRosa trade
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I picture a pissed-off Amazon bitch; uncontrollable, disobedient, boldly resisting any kind of emotional shackles...angrily begging for more ejaculate. -KB
Showing your teeth is a sign of weakness in primates. Whenever someone smiles at me, all I see is a chimpanzee begging for its life. - Dwight
RIP Sarge
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Weird. That fax machine looks like a horse.
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And, may I daresay, a dead horse?
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." - George Carlin
"That was some of the saddest stuff I've ever read. Fuck cancer and AIDS, ignorance is the scourge of the land." - tom v
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<!--quoteo(post=57342:date=Aug 12 2009, 11:19 AM:name=Jody)-->QUOTE (Jody @ Aug 12 2009, 11:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--> ![[Image: beating_a_dead_horse.jpg]](http://3alleypub.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/beating_a_dead_horse.jpg) <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
OK, let's never talk about the past. Ever again. Because it's just beating a dead horse.
Bad trades? Come on dude, don't worry, be happy.
Last night's tough extra-innings loss? It's over, it happened, it will never be discussed again.
There is nothing to glean or learn from past mistakes. Nothing.
That old adage about "It's good to study history, because history tends to repeat itself?" I guess that's just a load of rubbish.
Hold people accountable for the jobs they do? Why? It's mean.
How can we expect Hendry to lead us to glory when we say mean things about him?
From now on, let's just look to the future. Only. And wear our rose-colored glasses.
After all, to paraphrase the great and wonderful Mark McGuire, "We're not here to talk about the past!"
Well, either go with that philosophy....
or continue to ask why Jim made the stupidest Cub trade since Brock-for-Broglio.
There's nothing better than to realize that the good things about youth don't end with youth itself. It's a matter of realizing that life can be renewed every day you get out of bed without baggage. It's tough to get there, but it's better than the dark thoughts. -Lance
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Oh come on KB, really? It's not that I mind talking about the past but this same tired argument has been going on and on and on. It's not just this thread either as it seems that every thread turns into a DeRosa discussion. If it's just me then I will shut up about it but this DeRosa discussion is played. Just one man's opinion and I don't mean to come off as picking on you KB.
I picture a pissed-off Amazon bitch; uncontrollable, disobedient, boldly resisting any kind of emotional shackles...angrily begging for more ejaculate. -KB
Showing your teeth is a sign of weakness in primates. Whenever someone smiles at me, all I see is a chimpanzee begging for its life. - Dwight
RIP Sarge
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<!--quoteo(post=57335:date=Aug 12 2009, 10:41 AM:name=vitaminB)-->QUOTE (vitaminB @ Aug 12 2009, 10:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <!--quotec-->Regardless of who was supposed to take who's spot on the field, DeRosa wasn't let go to get Miles...or to get Font more ABs...or to get "more left-handed"...or to save money. It was part of an equation to specifically get Bradley.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So trading away DeRo was part of the equation to get Bradley, but money wasn't part of the equation? So in your theory Hendry goes, "I'm thinking of signing Milton Bradley. And then DeRosa goes, "Seriously, Jim I can't play with anyone named Milton Bradley. That goes for Coco Crisp as well. I just can't do it. You'll have to trade me."
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Freeing up money isn't the same thing as saving money. They shed those players so they could afford Bradley. This isn't complicated.
See below: Butch changed my mind.
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<!--quoteo(post=57337:date=Aug 12 2009, 10:50 AM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Aug 12 2009, 10:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I hate that I'm going to get sucked into this again...
- I see no reason (financially or otherwise) that we couldn't keep DeRosa and Bradley. When you look at how much money we saved by dumping DeRosa, it simply doesn't add up. $3M wasn't going to stand in the way of us signing Bradley. When you look at Bradley's contract (3/30) and total team payroll (over $140M), nobody can tell me with a straight face that $3M was going to prevent Hendry from making that move. If you want to argue the whole "handedness" thing, then fine. "Second base was the only place we could get more left-handed" was a quote I heard from Hendry. Unfortunately, that makes the move even more retarded.
- Signing Bradley (regardless of how healthy he has been this season) made DeRosa MORE valuable to the 2009 Cubs. Not less valuable.
To boil it down to its simplest points:
1. Trading DeRosa for prospects that aren't going to impact the team this year was a bad move.
2. Trading DeRosa for prospects in order to make a Peavy trade, without having that deal in the bag already, was a bad move.
3. Handing a 28-year-old part-time player the starting 2B role because he hits lefty and has had a little success in limited time was a bad move.
4. Signing Aaron Miles to a 2-year, $5M contract was a bad move (regardless of who he was or wasn't replacing).
I thought the Bradley signing was a good risk and I liked the move. But that was contingent on us NOT trading DeRosa. When you're signing an insanely talented, but also incredibly brittle player, it's wise to have a pretty solid backup option. And we had that guy on our roster. And we traded him for horseshit. It was stupid. There's no way around that.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You know what. You're absolutely right.
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Jody, you hit the nail on the head. I groan every time I see DeRosa mentioned these days, either here or elsewhere. Does the trade help us this season? Probably not. Would he have been a part of the team after this season? Probably not. Does Aaron Miles sucks and should be making half the league minimum? Definitely.
I'm all for discussion, but I prefer <i>productive</i> discussion. I haven't seen any side convince the other side these past however many months of anything besides the fact that Aaron Miles sucks...which is an entirely separate issue (IMO, as some will claim otherwise).
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." - George Carlin
"That was some of the saddest stuff I've ever read. Fuck cancer and AIDS, ignorance is the scourge of the land." - tom v
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for me, i'm done with the derosa good trade/bad trade argument. what's getting me pissed is the whole "miles for derosa" scenario. it's dumb to think that miles had anything to do with derosa being traded.
Wang.
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Eh, Jody, I suppose you're right. I come off sounding like a deeply bitter man.
(although, guess what? Many Chicago Cub fans are exactly that, and for good reason. Still...)
I can see why some of you would like to forget about Jim's off-season boner. I would too. If DeRosa was quietly having a decent season for the Indians instead of blasting homers for our arch-rivals, I suppose the blunder would be easier to take.
It's kind of unrealistic for people to expect the DeRo talk to cease, however. How long did Red Sox fans talk about the scuttling of Babe Ruth? My dad talked about Lou Brock for <i>decades</i>. As Annie Savoy says in Bull Durham, "...and who can forget about Milt Pappas for Frank Robinson, for God's sake?"
A bad trade never goes away.
But at least for me, I'll try to shut up about it for now.
I'd be remiss, however, to not applaud Butch's recent outstanding post.
There's nothing better than to realize that the good things about youth don't end with youth itself. It's a matter of realizing that life can be renewed every day you get out of bed without baggage. It's tough to get there, but it's better than the dark thoughts. -Lance
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