Posts: 2,696
Threads: 47
Joined: Nov 2008
Reputation:
0
<!--quoteo(post=65584:date=Oct 6 2009, 02:21 PM:name=Coach)-->QUOTE (Coach @ Oct 6 2009, 02:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Wells' trade value will never be this high.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have no issue at all with trading Wells if we can get a good return for him. But, I think if he sticks around as a Cub, we have a solid back end rotation guy for CHEAP for quite a few years.
Posts: 14,118
Threads: 90
Joined: Nov 2008
Reputation:
0
<!--quoteo(post=65583:date=Oct 6 2009, 02:20 PM:name=Scarey)-->QUOTE (Scarey @ Oct 6 2009, 02:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=65567:date=Oct 6 2009, 01:41 PM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ Oct 6 2009, 01:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I never said I didn't want Wells on the team. What I did say is that if we have Wells (who is still a big question mark regardless of what he did this season) and Shark/Gorzelanny as our #4 and #5, then it could be a long season.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I just have an issue with the fact that nobody wants to give Wells credit just because he doesn't strike people out. The guy does a great job of utilizing his pitches and placing the ball. He may not overwhelm anyone and doesn't strike out a ton, but he doesn't give out many free passes either.
Everyone at the beginning of the year kept saying that batters would start figuring Wells out. Scouting reports would get around and he would start getting hit. Teams would see him a second/third time around and knock him around. He would wear down.
It never happened and September was his second best month on the year.
I'm not trying to say that Wells is a sure fire thing. But the guy needs some credit. You don't have to be a strikeout pitcher in this league to be successful. Just ask Mark Buerhle, Jamie Moyer, and Derek Lowe.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I never said he was worthless, and I never mentioned anything about his stuff. I'm basing my opinions on what I saw from him as the season went on, and on the fact that he hasn't been pitching for very long. He could very well be a decent, cheap option as a starter for a very long time.
Also, I have no problem with Wells being the #5 guy in the rotation. I DO have a problem with Wells as the #4 SP and Gorzelanny or Shark as the #5 SP. That doesn't make me feel good about our chances in 2010. We have no idea what we'll get from these people next season.
Posts: 2,696
Threads: 47
Joined: Nov 2008
Reputation:
0
<!--quoteo(post=65590:date=Oct 6 2009, 03:16 PM:name=rok)-->QUOTE (rok @ Oct 6 2009, 03:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I never said he was worthless, and I never mentioned anything about his stuff. <b>I'm basing my opinions on what I saw from him as the season went on</b>, and on the fact that he hasn't been pitching for very long. He could very well be a decent, cheap option as a starter for a very long time.
Also, I have no problem with Wells being the #5 guy in the rotation. I DO have a problem with Wells as the #4 SP and Gorzelanny or Shark as the #5 SP. That doesn't make me feel good about our chances in 2010. We have no idea what we'll get from these people next season.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I find it hard to believe you are basing your opinion on what you saw this year alone because he's been an excellent pitcher. He's been the most consistent and effective starter on the staff this year, how could that be bad as a #4?
Also, I never said you said he was worthless.
Posts: 14,118
Threads: 90
Joined: Nov 2008
Reputation:
0
<!--quoteo(post=65592:date=Oct 6 2009, 03:25 PM:name=Scarey)-->QUOTE (Scarey @ Oct 6 2009, 03:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=65590:date=Oct 6 2009, 03:16 PM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ Oct 6 2009, 03:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I never said he was worthless, and I never mentioned anything about his stuff. <b>I'm basing my opinions on what I saw from him as the season went on</b>, and on the fact that he hasn't been pitching for very long. He could very well be a decent, cheap option as a starter for a very long time.
Also, I have no problem with Wells being the #5 guy in the rotation. I DO have a problem with Wells as the #4 SP and Gorzelanny or Shark as the #5 SP. That doesn't make me feel good about our chances in 2010. We have no idea what we'll get from these people next season.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I find it hard to believe you are basing your opinion on what you saw this year alone<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--coloro:#0000FF--> <!--/coloro-->I'm basing my opinions on what I saw from him as the season went on, and on the fact that he hasn't been pitching for very long. He could very well be a decent, cheap option as a starter for a very long time.<!--colorc-->
<!--/colorc-->
Posts: 1,792
Threads: 49
Joined: Dec 2008
Reputation:
0
Scarey, you "took exception" when someone stated that he wasn't much of a prospect. Now you think that people being cautious of his one year of success in the majors is based on solely his strikeout rate? He's getting the proper respect he deserves here.
If Angelo had picked McClellin, I would have been expecting to hear by training camp that kid has stage 4 cancer, is actually 5'2" 142 lbs, is a chick who played in a 7 - 0 defensive scheme who only rotated in on downs which were 3 and 34 yds + so is not expecting to play a down in the NFL until the sex change is complete and she puts on another 100 lbs. + but this is Emery's first pick so he'll get a pass with a bit of questioning. - 1060Ivy
Posts: 2,696
Threads: 47
Joined: Nov 2008
Reputation:
0
<!--quoteo(post=65594:date=Oct 6 2009, 03:28 PM:name=rok)-->QUOTE (rok @ Oct 6 2009, 03:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=65592:date=Oct 6 2009, 03:25 PM:name=Scarey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Oct 6 2009, 03:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=65590:date=Oct 6 2009, 03:16 PM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ Oct 6 2009, 03:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I never said he was worthless, and I never mentioned anything about his stuff. <b>I'm basing my opinions on what I saw from him as the season went on</b>, and on the fact that he hasn't been pitching for very long. He could very well be a decent, cheap option as a starter for a very long time.
Also, I have no problem with Wells being the #5 guy in the rotation. I DO have a problem with Wells as the #4 SP and Gorzelanny or Shark as the #5 SP. That doesn't make me feel good about our chances in 2010. We have no idea what we'll get from these people next season.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I find it hard to believe you are basing your opinion on what you saw this year alone<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--coloro:#0000FF--> <!--/coloro-->I'm basing my opinions on what I saw from him as the season went on, and on the fact that he hasn't been pitching for very long. He could very well be a decent, cheap option as a starter for a very long time.<!--colorc-->
<!--/colorc-->
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Randy Wells' ERA by month:
May: 1.80
June: 3.19
July: 3.23
August: 3.69
Sepember: 3.03
I'm not sure what you're getting at here man.
Posts: 2,696
Threads: 47
Joined: Nov 2008
Reputation:
0
<!--quoteo(post=65596:date=Oct 6 2009, 03:37 PM:name=bz)-->QUOTE (bz @ Oct 6 2009, 03:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Scarey, you "took exception" when someone stated that he wasn't much of a prospect. Now you think that people being cautious of his one year of success in the majors is based on solely his strikeout rate? He's getting the proper respect he deserves here.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He throws an ERA of 3.05 over 165 innings in his rookie year and people are afraid of him being our #4? I don't agree that he's getting the proper amount of respect.
Posts: 14,118
Threads: 90
Joined: Nov 2008
Reputation:
0
<!--quoteo(post=65597:date=Oct 6 2009, 03:38 PM:name=Scarey)-->QUOTE (Scarey @ Oct 6 2009, 03:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=65594:date=Oct 6 2009, 03:28 PM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ Oct 6 2009, 03:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=65592:date=Oct 6 2009, 03:25 PM:name=Scarey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Oct 6 2009, 03:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=65590:date=Oct 6 2009, 03:16 PM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ Oct 6 2009, 03:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I never said he was worthless, and I never mentioned anything about his stuff. <b>I'm basing my opinions on what I saw from him as the season went on</b>, and on the fact that he hasn't been pitching for very long. He could very well be a decent, cheap option as a starter for a very long time.
Also, I have no problem with Wells being the #5 guy in the rotation. I DO have a problem with Wells as the #4 SP and Gorzelanny or Shark as the #5 SP. That doesn't make me feel good about our chances in 2010. We have no idea what we'll get from these people next season.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I find it hard to believe you are basing your opinion on what you saw this year alone<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--coloro:#0000FF--> <!--/coloro-->I'm basing my opinions on what I saw from him as the season went on, and on the fact that he hasn't been pitching for very long. He could very well be a decent, cheap option as a starter for a very long time.<!--colorc-->
<!--/colorc-->
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Randy Wells' ERA by month:
May: 1.80
June: 3.19
July: 3.23
August: 3.69
Sepember: 3.03
I'm not sure what you're getting at here man.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Dude, I don't understand why I'm being singled out here for saying anything that I've said. I've been burned too much in the past by the Shawn Boskies and Jim Bullingers of my time to not get overly excited about any Cubs pitching prospect who comes out of nowhere.
All the stats you throw out there are meaningless to me until I see Wells have a decent sophomore season. I don't know what you're getting at either, and I have no desire to argue over an opinion (mine).
Respect is earned over several years, not one year that could very well be a fluke.
Posts: 2,806
Threads: 110
Joined: Nov 2008
Reputation:
0
<!--quoteo(post=65599:date=Oct 6 2009, 03:45 PM:name=rok)-->QUOTE (rok @ Oct 6 2009, 03:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=65597:date=Oct 6 2009, 03:38 PM:name=Scarey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Oct 6 2009, 03:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=65594:date=Oct 6 2009, 03:28 PM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ Oct 6 2009, 03:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=65592:date=Oct 6 2009, 03:25 PM:name=Scarey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Oct 6 2009, 03:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=65590:date=Oct 6 2009, 03:16 PM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ Oct 6 2009, 03:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I never said he was worthless, and I never mentioned anything about his stuff. <b>I'm basing my opinions on what I saw from him as the season went on</b>, and on the fact that he hasn't been pitching for very long. He could very well be a decent, cheap option as a starter for a very long time.
Also, I have no problem with Wells being the #5 guy in the rotation. I DO have a problem with Wells as the #4 SP and Gorzelanny or Shark as the #5 SP. That doesn't make me feel good about our chances in 2010. We have no idea what we'll get from these people next season.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I find it hard to believe you are basing your opinion on what you saw this year alone<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--coloro:#0000FF--> <!--/coloro-->I'm basing my opinions on what I saw from him as the season went on, and on the fact that he hasn't been pitching for very long. He could very well be a decent, cheap option as a starter for a very long time.<!--colorc-->
<!--/colorc-->
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Randy Wells' ERA by month:
May: 1.80
June: 3.19
July: 3.23
August: 3.69
Sepember: 3.03
I'm not sure what you're getting at here man.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Dude, I don't understand why I'm being singled out here for saying anything that I've said. I've been burned too much in the past by the Shawn Boskies and Jim Bullingers of my time to not get overly excited about any Cubs pitching prospect who comes out of nowhere.
All the stats you throw out there are meaningless to me until I see Wells have a decent sophomore season. I don't know what you're getting at either, and I have no desire to argue over an opinion (mine).
Respect is earned over several years, not one year that could very well be a fluke.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
See: Soto, Geo
"I'm not sure I know what ball cheese or crotch rot is, exactly -- or if there is a difference between the two. Don't post photos, please..."
- Butcher
Posts: 1,792
Threads: 49
Joined: Dec 2008
Reputation:
0
<!--quoteo(post=65502:date=Oct 6 2009, 09:12 AM:name=Rappster)-->QUOTE (Rappster @ Oct 6 2009, 09:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I like the idea of moving Theriot to 2B, but finding the kind of SS you guys want, is going to be hard.
I could actually see Bradley coming back with an excellent year...it sounded as though he might finally have put his tail between his legs after the suspension. That said, between his injuries and track record, it would be hard to put our eggs back in his basket. I prefer Burrell to Rowand, but worry about Burrell in RF. And remember...he K's a ton. You reap what you sow...so don't get pissed at him, if you're someone who wants him here.
I am not comfortable with committing to Wells. I do think we need to offer arbitration to Harden, unless there's something we don't know about his shoulder. He's 28...stack up his season against the rest of the league, and he doesn't look half-bad. He waned as the season went on...and we need to know the finite reason before kissing him off.
I want Wells to fight with Samardzija and Gorzelany for the #5.
I like Baker as a supersub, and do agree with the "end regressing to the mean" theory.
I do expect Soto to come back. His track record throughout the minors showed absolute skill and improvement, and I think he just succumbed to a bad start, and injuries. Probably needs some maturity and mental toughness...
I want Reed Johnson back. That's someone you build a bench around. I want Grabow back, and if we can...a real closer. If Marmol returns to form, I'm fine with him in the eighth.
Not sure about Lackey...have never been sure whether or not he's the real thing.
And...for the Alf-killers. He was off to a tremendous start before getting hurt. He is not ready to be kissed off...I'm done with him at lead-off, but fine with him lower down.
We won 83 games. We were decimated by injuries. Lilly, Zambrano, Dempster, Alf, Aramis, Lee...
We're just not that far off...<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I concur, old man.
If Angelo had picked McClellin, I would have been expecting to hear by training camp that kid has stage 4 cancer, is actually 5'2" 142 lbs, is a chick who played in a 7 - 0 defensive scheme who only rotated in on downs which were 3 and 34 yds + so is not expecting to play a down in the NFL until the sex change is complete and she puts on another 100 lbs. + but this is Emery's first pick so he'll get a pass with a bit of questioning. - 1060Ivy
Posts: 1,792
Threads: 49
Joined: Dec 2008
Reputation:
0
<!--quoteo(post=65598:date=Oct 6 2009, 03:40 PM:name=Scarey)-->QUOTE (Scarey @ Oct 6 2009, 03:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=65596:date=Oct 6 2009, 03:37 PM:name=bz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bz @ Oct 6 2009, 03:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Scarey, you "took exception" when someone stated that he wasn't much of a prospect. Now you think that people being cautious of his one year of success in the majors is based on solely his strikeout rate? He's getting the proper respect he deserves here.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He throws an ERA of 3.05 over 165 innings in his rookie year and people are afraid of him being our #4? I don't agree that he's getting the proper amount of respect.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, over one season. ONE season.
If Angelo had picked McClellin, I would have been expecting to hear by training camp that kid has stage 4 cancer, is actually 5'2" 142 lbs, is a chick who played in a 7 - 0 defensive scheme who only rotated in on downs which were 3 and 34 yds + so is not expecting to play a down in the NFL until the sex change is complete and she puts on another 100 lbs. + but this is Emery's first pick so he'll get a pass with a bit of questioning. - 1060Ivy
Posts: 2,696
Threads: 47
Joined: Nov 2008
Reputation:
0
<!--quoteo(post=65599:date=Oct 6 2009, 03:45 PM:name=rok)-->QUOTE (rok @ Oct 6 2009, 03:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Dude, I don't understand why I'm being singled out here for saying anything that I've said. I've been burned too much in the past by the Shawn Boskies and Jim Bullingers of my time to not get overly excited about any Cubs pitching prospect who comes out of nowhere.
All the stats you throw out there are meaningless to me until I see Wells have a decent sophomore season. I don't know what you're getting at either, and I have no desire to argue over an opinion (mine).
Respect is earned over several years, not one year that could very well be a fluke.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Come on dude, you're not being singled out. Everyone has had gauged expectations about Wells since he started pitching in Chicago. I understand why to stat out with, it's not uncommon for a pitcher to have a few good games and then get beat on. But he's shown he knows how to pitch and has sustained his production throughout the whole year, what's wrong with getting a little bit excited here?
I don't expect anyone to think Wells is going to have a 3.00 ERA next year, but a number 4 can be successful by going out every 5th day and throwing a sub 4.20 ERA. Is that an impossible task for Wells?
I just don't know why we have to walk on broken glass about Wells. I am excited about the production we've gotten out of him and am looking forward to what he can do for the Cubs going forward (whether that's in a trade or in the rotation). That's not a bad thing.
Posts: 2,806
Threads: 110
Joined: Nov 2008
Reputation:
0
"I'm not sure I know what ball cheese or crotch rot is, exactly -- or if there is a difference between the two. Don't post photos, please..."
- Butcher
Posts: 2,696
Threads: 47
Joined: Nov 2008
Reputation:
0
<!--quoteo(post=65600:date=Oct 6 2009, 03:47 PM:name=PcB)-->QUOTE (PcB @ Oct 6 2009, 03:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->See: Soto, Geo<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If I remember correctly, people were doing backflips because of what Soto did with us. Why not the same reaction for Wells?
Posts: 2,806
Threads: 110
Joined: Nov 2008
Reputation:
0
<!--quoteo(post=65609:date=Oct 6 2009, 03:56 PM:name=Scarey)-->QUOTE (Scarey @ Oct 6 2009, 03:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=65600:date=Oct 6 2009, 03:47 PM:name=PcB)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PcB @ Oct 6 2009, 03:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->See: Soto, Geo<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If I remember correctly, people were doing backflips because of what Soto did with us. Why not the same reaction for Wells?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1) He was an elite player last year. Randy Wells is not that.
2) It was the first time, in a long time that we had a catcher that could hit the ball. It was exciting.
3) I think most people were doing very cautious backflips.
"I'm not sure I know what ball cheese or crotch rot is, exactly -- or if there is a difference between the two. Don't post photos, please..."
- Butcher
|
