Harden, Johnson let go???

[dk123]

I think BT takes these discussions a little too seriously. Just a feeling I get.

[1060Ivy]

<!--quoteo(post=68642:date=Nov 10 2009, 10:31 AM:name=veryzer)-->QUOTE (veryzer @ Nov 10 2009, 10:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->i'd like to see harden close.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Would have loved to see Harden close Cubs games late in the year to see if his arm, shoulder could take moving from a starter to closer.

What I am more perplexed by is why the hell the Cubs decided to shut him down in mid-September if they thought they weren't going to resign him or offer arbitration? According to Harden he was still healthy and could still pitch 100 pitchers if summoned. Given Harden's history that might have only been 4 or 5 innings but hell they were already paying for him so he might as well do the work.

Did Cubs management just want to make certain that Harden was healthy when they faced him in 2010?

[BT]

<!--quoteo(post=70338:date=Nov 30 2009, 03:17 PM:name=dk123)-->QUOTE (dk123 @ Nov 30 2009, 03:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I think BT takes these discussions a little too seriously. Just a feeling I get.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


I think DK takes my replies too seriously. Just a feeling I get.

[dk123]

<!--quoteo(post=70343:date=Nov 30 2009, 03:35 PM:name=BT)-->QUOTE (BT @ Nov 30 2009, 03:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=70338:date=Nov 30 2009, 03:17 PM:name=dk123)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dk123 @ Nov 30 2009, 03:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I think BT takes these discussions a little too seriously. Just a feeling I get.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


I think DK takes my replies too seriously. Just a feeling I get.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, my initials are better than your initials, cocksuckah!

[BT]

<!--quoteo(post=70345:date=Nov 30 2009, 03:39 PM:name=dk123)-->QUOTE (dk123 @ Nov 30 2009, 03:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=70343:date=Nov 30 2009, 03:35 PM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Nov 30 2009, 03:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=70338:date=Nov 30 2009, 03:17 PM:name=dk123)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dk123 @ Nov 30 2009, 03:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I think BT takes these discussions a little too seriously. Just a feeling I get.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


I think DK takes my replies too seriously. Just a feeling I get.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, my initials are better than your initials, cocksuckah!
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


yeah, they stand for Dick Knobler.

[Coldneck]

Bitch Tits

[dk123]

<!--quoteo(post=70347:date=Nov 30 2009, 04:00 PM:name=BT)-->QUOTE (BT @ Nov 30 2009, 04:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=70345:date=Nov 30 2009, 03:39 PM:name=dk123)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dk123 @ Nov 30 2009, 03:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=70343:date=Nov 30 2009, 03:35 PM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Nov 30 2009, 03:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=70338:date=Nov 30 2009, 03:17 PM:name=dk123)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dk123 @ Nov 30 2009, 03:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I think BT takes these discussions a little too seriously. Just a feeling I get.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


I think DK takes my replies too seriously. Just a feeling I get.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, my initials are better than your initials, cocksuckah!
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


yeah, they stand for Dick Knobler.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Knoblers isn't even a word, unlike Balls Tiny.

[biggz]

I hope I'm surprised tomorrow. I doubt I will be. Sigh.

[Coldneck]

This is a little off topic but I didn't want to start a whole new thread. I saw today that Halladay will not allow the Jays to trade him after spring training begins. So they now must trade him during the offseason with little leverage. Most likely his new team will get a great deal. I am pretty sure the Cubs don't have the money available to pay him next season much less resign him for the years ahead. The reason is because Hendry blew his wad all over the place signing replacement level players to expensive multi year deals, siging aging stars without a position for outrageous money and years, and handing out 3 years to a powder keg than cannot stay healthy. Opportunities like Halladay are the reasons to spend wisely and maintain financial flexibility. With a top 5 payroll we should be in a position to make a move like this. Unfortunately we are stuck for the next 3-4 years with no flexibility and an aging group of former stars. FML.

[Jody]

Ok so we've got Harden and Johnson in the title of this thread and not even one tiny little joke? I'm disappointed....

[Scarey]

<!--quoteo(post=70374:date=Dec 1 2009, 10:56 AM:name=Coldneck)-->QUOTE (Coldneck @ Dec 1 2009, 10:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->This is a little off topic but I didn't want to start a whole new thread. I saw today that Halladay will not allow the Jays to trade him after spring training begins. So they now must trade him during the offseason with little leverage. Most likely his new team will get a great deal. I am pretty sure the Cubs don't have the money available to pay him next season much less resign him for the years ahead. The reason is because Hendry blew his wad all over the place signing replacement level players to expensive multi year deals, siging aging stars without a position for outrageous money and years, and handing out 3 years to a powder keg than cannot stay healthy. Opportunities like Halladay are the reasons to spend wisely and maintain financial flexibility. With a top 5 payroll we should be in a position to make a move like this. Unfortunately we are stuck for the next 3-4 years with no flexibility and an aging group of former stars. FML.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

You're upset that Hendry signed a 31 year old Soriano to a long term deal and want him to trade <i>and </i>sign a 33 year old Halladay to a long term deal?

[Coldneck]

Scarey, we'll never be on the same page about Hendry so I'm not surprised by your argument. The short answer to your question is yes, but it is much more complicated than that. The Soriano signing is just one of the several major misktakes that JH has made, amongst several other minor ones. But let me examine the Soriano signing in a vacuum since that is what you specificially mentioned. First of all, I think signing ANY player to an 8 year deal is a big mistake. There are too many variables and too many examples of players declining once they reach the 32-35 age range. The decline is especially large for players that rely on speed, which was one of Soriano's major attributes. Soriano also did not have a position that he played adequately. He was a butcher at 2B, and just as bad in LF for the Nationals. He fought tooth and nail when the Astros and then the Nats tried to move him to the OF. Even more absurd is that JH signed Soriano to play CF, which is a premium position, after a full year of Soriano showing he couldn't play LF. So yes, I would advocate trade for Halladay, and signing him to no more than a 4 year extension. Halladay is one of the top 4 best pitchers in the game. There are many more examples of pitchers succeeding late in their 30s than offensive players. To quote Keith Law:
<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->Halladay's frame, mechanics, pitch efficiency and track record all suggest a pitcher who is freakishly durable. He's also never had a major arm injury. If I was going to bet on any starter to throw 800 innings over the next four years, it would probably be Doc.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Instead of arguing about the Soriano signing, why don't you argue my main point which is that Hendry's poor decisions have cost us the flexibility to go after top notch talent for the next few years. This should never be the case if you operate with such a large payroll.

[MW4]

I think that Halladay quote was the same one that was quoted for Prior, just sayin.

[Coldneck]

<!--quoteo(post=70392:date=Dec 1 2009, 12:52 PM:name=MW4)-->QUOTE (MW4 @ Dec 1 2009, 12:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I think that Halladay quote was the same one that was quoted for Prior, just sayin.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Halladay has 10+ years of success. Not even comparable.

And oh shit, I see BT has been typing a response. Here's comes my beating.
Edit - I guess he gave me a pass. His name is no longer in italics below.

[Scarey]

<!--quoteo(post=70388:date=Dec 1 2009, 12:39 PM:name=Coldneck)-->QUOTE (Coldneck @ Dec 1 2009, 12:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Scarey, we'll never be on the same page about Hendry so I'm not surprised by your argument. The short answer to your question is yes, but it is much more complicated than that. The Soriano signing is just one of the several major misktakes that JH has made, amongst several other minor ones. But let me examine the Soriano signing in a vacuum since that is what you specificially mentioned. First of all, I think signing ANY player to an 8 year deal is a big mistake. There are too many variables and too many examples of players declining once they reach the 32-35 age range. The decline is especially large for players that rely on speed, which was one of Soriano's major attributes. Soriano also did not have a position that he played adequately. He was a butcher at 2B, and just as bad in LF for the Nationals. He fought tooth and nail when the Astros and then the Nats tried to move him to the OF. Even more absurd is that JH signed Soriano to play CF, which is a premium position, after a full year of Soriano showing he couldn't play LF. So yes, I would advocate trade for Halladay, and signing him to no more than a 4 year extension. Halladay is one of the top 4 best pitchers in the game. There are many more examples of pitchers succeeding late in their 30s than offensive players. To quote Keith Law:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <!--quotec-->Halladay's frame, mechanics, pitch efficiency and track record all suggest a pitcher who is freakishly durable. He's also never had a major arm injury. If I was going to bet on any starter to throw 800 innings over the next four years, it would probably be Doc.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Instead of arguing about the Soriano signing, why don't you argue my main point which is that Hendry's poor decisions have cost us the flexibility to go after top notch talent for the next few years. This should never be the case if you operate with such a large payroll.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


My point wasn't that the Soriano signing was good, or acceptable, or defendable at the time. I disagreed with the length when he was signed too. My point is that for what Halladay is going to cost in prospects, it's not worth it. If this team was a sure fire playoff team in need of a playoff starter, Halladay would be worth it. As it is, this team will be in the hunt for the playoffs, but aren't exactly a shoe in. There's more work to be done than simply adding Halladay.