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I like Felix Pie as much as anyone on this site, probably because I saw him play so many games in AAA here in Nashville. He's amazing to watch. He's an <i>athlete</i>; unbelievable speed, cannon arm, power, grace...just a joy to watch.
IOW, Hendry/Gary Hughes's wet dream-type of guy. However, it should be clear to followers of baseball by now, that one characteristic trumps ALL when it comes to succeeding in the major leagues.
Plate discipline.
Pie doesn't have it.
It is my opinion that he will therefore never be a star in MLB. He may start for a few years for the awful Orioles. He will make a few highlight reels because of his superlative physical gifts.
But MLB pitchers will not throw him a strike, and thus, he will never hit well enough to come <i>close</i> to his potential.
There's nothing better than to realize that the good things about youth don't end with youth itself. It's a matter of realizing that life can be renewed every day you get out of bed without baggage. It's tough to get there, but it's better than the dark thoughts. -Lance
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<!--quoteo(post=68955:date=Nov 13 2009, 03:32 PM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ Nov 13 2009, 03:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I like Felix Pie as much as anyone on this site, probably because I saw him play so many games in AAA here in Nashville. He's amazing to watch. He's an <i>athlete</i>; unbelievable speed, cannon arm, power, grace...just a joy to watch.
IOW, Hendry/Gary Hughes's wet dream-type of guy. However, it should be clear to followers of baseball by now, that one characteristic trumps ALL when it comes to succeeding in the major leagues.
Plate discipline.
Pie doesn't have it.
It is my opinion that he will therefore never be a star in MLB. He may start for a few years for the awful Orioles. He will make a few highlight reels because of his superlative physical gifts.
But MLB pitchers will not throw him a strike, and thus, he will never hit well enough to come <i>close</i> to his potential.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Pie is already popping up in trade rumors again, so I don't think he will be playing with them every day for long. If the O's end up netting better players in return for him from some other team than we did, I will be pissed.
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<!--quoteo(post=68955:date=Nov 13 2009, 03:32 PM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ Nov 13 2009, 03:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->However, it should be clear to followers of baseball by now, that one characteristic trumps ALL when it comes to succeeding in the major leagues.
Plate discipline.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, I guess guys like Alfonso Soriano, Vladimir Guerrero, Andre Dawson, et al. couldn't overcome their lack of plate discipline.
There is no such thing as one characteristic that trumps all in baseball. Is plate discipline a good measure of a player? Many times it is. But it doesn't matter how many times you say it trumps everything else, that will never make it true.
The thing you need to remember is that all Cardinals fans and all White Sox fans are very bad people. It's a fact that has been scientifically proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. Being a Cubs fan is the only path to rightousness and piousness. Cardinal and White Sox fans exist to be the dark, diabolical forces that oppose us. They are the yin to our yang, the Joker to our Batman, the demon to our angel, the insurgence to our freedom, the oil to our water, the club to our baby seal. Their happiness occurs only in direct conflict with everything that is pure and good in this world.
-Dirk
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<!--quoteo(post=68964:date=Nov 13 2009, 04:45 PM:name=Giff)-->QUOTE (Giff @ Nov 13 2009, 04:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=68955:date=Nov 13 2009, 03:32 PM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ Nov 13 2009, 03:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->However, it should be clear to followers of baseball by now, that one characteristic trumps ALL when it comes to succeeding in the major leagues.
Plate discipline.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, I guess guys like Alfonso Soriano, Vladimir Guerrero, Andre Dawson, et al. couldn't overcome their lack of plate discipline.
There is no such thing as one characteristic that trumps all in baseball. Is plate discipline a good measure of a player? Many times it is. But it doesn't matter how many times you say it trumps everything else, that will never make it true.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I find it funny how you can take any two people here, ask them two completely different questions, and find a huge gap in difference of opinion in the answer of each question. You'd think that since we are all Cubs fans mostly in the midwest that we would think very much alike on a lot of topics. I just find it neat that we can agree on this topic and violently disagree on a probability question.
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<!--quoteo(post=69013:date=Nov 13 2009, 04:43 PM:name=Scarey)-->QUOTE (Scarey @ Nov 13 2009, 04:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=68964:date=Nov 13 2009, 04:45 PM:name=Giff)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Giff @ Nov 13 2009, 04:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=68955:date=Nov 13 2009, 03:32 PM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ Nov 13 2009, 03:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->However, it should be clear to followers of baseball by now, that one characteristic trumps ALL when it comes to succeeding in the major leagues.
Plate discipline.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, I guess guys like Alfonso Soriano, Vladimir Guerrero, Andre Dawson, et al. couldn't overcome their lack of plate discipline.
There is no such thing as one characteristic that trumps all in baseball. Is plate discipline a good measure of a player? Many times it is. But it doesn't matter how many times you say it trumps everything else, that will never make it true.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I find it funny how you can take any two people here, ask them two completely different questions, and find a huge gap in difference of opinion in the answer of each question. You'd think that since we are all Cubs fans mostly in the midwest that we would think very much alike on a lot of topics. I just find it neat that we can agree on this topic and violently disagree on a probability question.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif[/img] FUCK YEAH SCAREY!
The thing you need to remember is that all Cardinals fans and all White Sox fans are very bad people. It's a fact that has been scientifically proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. Being a Cubs fan is the only path to rightousness and piousness. Cardinal and White Sox fans exist to be the dark, diabolical forces that oppose us. They are the yin to our yang, the Joker to our Batman, the demon to our angel, the insurgence to our freedom, the oil to our water, the club to our baby seal. Their happiness occurs only in direct conflict with everything that is pure and good in this world.
-Dirk
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ernie banks never got over his lack of plate discipline either.
Wang.
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Marmol and Castro for Granderson is of course ridiculous.
But refusing to trade Castro in ANY deal is equally ridiculous. Again: haven't we danced this dance before with prospects?
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<!--quoteo(post=69034:date=Nov 13 2009, 07:04 PM:name=Ace)-->QUOTE (Ace @ Nov 13 2009, 07:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Marmol and Castro for Granderson is of course ridiculous.
But refusing to trade Castro in ANY deal is equally ridiculous. Again: haven't we danced this dance before with prospects?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
too many times.
i really think we need to keep marmol though. he cuts back the walks and he's an elite reliever. there aren't that many of them in the league.
Wang.
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At the same time, the kid is only 19. Even if you have no faith in him ever amounting to anything, I doubt that he's close to reaching his peak value in a trade or otherwise.
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<!--quoteo(post=69045:date=Nov 13 2009, 09:26 PM:name=rok)-->QUOTE (rok @ Nov 13 2009, 09:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->At the same time, the kid is only 19. Even if you have no faith in him ever amounting to anything, I doubt that he's close to reaching his peak value in a trade or otherwise.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well that's not necessarily true. Say he sucks it up next year?
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<!--quoteo(post=69049:date=Nov 13 2009, 08:34 PM:name=Ace)-->QUOTE (Ace @ Nov 13 2009, 08:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=69045:date=Nov 13 2009, 09:26 PM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ Nov 13 2009, 09:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->At the same time, the kid is only 19. Even if you have no faith in him ever amounting to anything, I doubt that he's close to reaching his peak value in a trade or otherwise.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well that's not necessarily true. Say he sucks it up next year?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
All I'm saying is that it is a pretty rare occurrence to trade someone this young unless you can get someone who is a difference maker for the big league squad. I doubt that there are enough teams out there who are that sold on Castro right now that would be willing to give us equal value, or what we perceive equal value to be, at least not yet anyway. No one said a word about him until this season, and it's still really early in this kid's development.
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<!--quoteo(post=69055:date=Nov 13 2009, 09:58 PM:name=rok)-->QUOTE (rok @ Nov 13 2009, 09:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=69049:date=Nov 13 2009, 08:34 PM:name=Ace)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ace @ Nov 13 2009, 08:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=69045:date=Nov 13 2009, 09:26 PM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ Nov 13 2009, 09:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->At the same time, the kid is only 19. Even if you have no faith in him ever amounting to anything, I doubt that he's close to reaching his peak value in a trade or otherwise.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well that's not necessarily true. Say he sucks it up next year?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
All I'm saying is that it is a pretty rare occurrence to trade someone this young unless you can get someone who is a difference maker for the big league squad. I doubt that there are enough teams out there who are that sold on Castro right now that would be willing to give us equal value, or what we perceive equal value to be, at least not yet anyway. No one said a word about him until this season, and it's still really early in this kid's development.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Maybe. I just feel like he's gotten more hype in the last two months than any other prospect in baseball not named Strasburg.
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Well, Phil's at it again. If the Cubs don't want to trade Carlos Marmol to the Tigers how about a trade involving virtually every top prospect the Cubs have in the minors?
Here is Phil Roger's from the Chicago Tribune:
"A Cubs offer could be built around 19-year old shortstop Starlin Castro, who is emerging as one of the top prospects in the minors. Third baseman Josh Vitters, 19 year-old Korean shortstop Hak-Ju Lee and minor-league pitching from a group including Andrew Cashner, Jay Jackson and Chris Carpenter also could be a part of the deal."
Curtis would do well in Cub blue but he is not worth depleting what's still considered a weak farm system for him.
Does Rogers understand that Granderson is a platoon player? Considering Lou doesn't like hitting most of the other outfield options that we have - Fukudome, Fox, Hoffpauir - against lefties either, the Cubs would most likely have to sign Reed Johnson and force whoever the Cubs have in RF to hit against lefties.
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I really want Granderson but to give up all of that would be complete lunacy. What the fuck?
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I assume Rogers is just grabbing from a list of the prospects he's ever heard of.
Granderson would likely take one of the top prospects (Vitters, Castro, Cashner, Lee, and Jackson), and then some other very good prospects. Two from that list, however, would be a steep price.
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