Johnny Damon?

[Scarey]

<!--quoteo(post=73253:date=Dec 29 2009, 02:50 PM:name=BT)-->QUOTE (BT @ Dec 29 2009, 02:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Who are the really good left handed relievers that the market is paying less than a million a year for?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I never said there were good left handed relievers that the market is paying less thana million a year for. There could be, but I don't know off the top of my head. I said I would rather pay less than a million for mediocre production than more than 3.5 million on mediocre production (IE Grabow).

<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->And if we didn't sign Grabow, and on the .000000000001 percent chance that Gaub ISN'T the answer, whom should we be using in that spot?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Sean Marshall.


You're putting words in my mouth BT. Please don't.

[Scarey]

<!--quoteo(post=73254:date=Dec 29 2009, 03:10 PM:name=Rappster)-->QUOTE (Rappster @ Dec 29 2009, 03:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=73253:date=Dec 29 2009, 12:50 PM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Dec 29 2009, 12:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=73239:date=Dec 29 2009, 11:28 AM:name=Scarey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Dec 29 2009, 11:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=73234:date=Dec 29 2009, 12:36 PM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ Dec 29 2009, 12:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Also, all you people out there clamoring to build a bullpen with a bunch of no-name minor leaguers and plugging in CF with 2 guys incapable of handling it are so fucking delusional. Doing those things accomplishes what exactly?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Saves payroll for worthwile acquisitions such as a possible replacement for Derrek Lee in the future or an ace starting pitcher. You can't just pay every player on the 25 man roster. If you get a couple of guys that can play adequately for very cheap (Marmol, Marshall, Theriot, Guzman, Soto), that improves payroll flexibility. Part of the reason the Cubs don't have payroll flexibility right now is the fact that they haven't developed a lot of guys like that. I figure if you have to have mediocre players on your team, than pay them less than a million per year rather than $3.5million.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


I assume you are referring to Grabow? Let me ask you something. Who are the really good left handed relievers that the market is paying less than a million a year for? And if we didn't sign Grabow, and on the .000000000001 percent chance that Gaub ISN'T the answer, whom should we be using in that spot?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Exactly...some of you guys are so desperate to be right, that you're almost rooting for your GM to fail.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Please don't make that assumption about me. I'm on the Grabow bandwagon. I just would have preferred to not sign him to a two year $7 mill contract for various reasons.

[Rappster]

<!--quoteo(post=73256:date=Dec 29 2009, 01:12 PM:name=Scarey)-->QUOTE (Scarey @ Dec 29 2009, 01:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=73254:date=Dec 29 2009, 03:10 PM:name=Rappster)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rappster @ Dec 29 2009, 03:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=73253:date=Dec 29 2009, 12:50 PM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Dec 29 2009, 12:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=73239:date=Dec 29 2009, 11:28 AM:name=Scarey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Dec 29 2009, 11:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=73234:date=Dec 29 2009, 12:36 PM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ Dec 29 2009, 12:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Also, all you people out there clamoring to build a bullpen with a bunch of no-name minor leaguers and plugging in CF with 2 guys incapable of handling it are so fucking delusional. Doing those things accomplishes what exactly?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Saves payroll for worthwile acquisitions such as a possible replacement for Derrek Lee in the future or an ace starting pitcher. You can't just pay every player on the 25 man roster. If you get a couple of guys that can play adequately for very cheap (Marmol, Marshall, Theriot, Guzman, Soto), that improves payroll flexibility. Part of the reason the Cubs don't have payroll flexibility right now is the fact that they haven't developed a lot of guys like that. I figure if you have to have mediocre players on your team, than pay them less than a million per year rather than $3.5million.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


I assume you are referring to Grabow? Let me ask you something. Who are the really good left handed relievers that the market is paying less than a million a year for? And if we didn't sign Grabow, and on the .000000000001 percent chance that Gaub ISN'T the answer, whom should we be using in that spot?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Exactly...some of you guys are so desperate to be right, that you're almost rooting for your GM to fail.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Please don't make that assumption about me. I'm on the Grabow bandwagon. I just would have preferred to not sign him to a two year $7 mill contract for various reasons.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I'm sorry...3.5 per for a rubber-armed reliever is just fine.

[ruby23]

<!--quoteo(post=73252:date=Dec 29 2009, 12:46 PM:name=Scarey)-->QUOTE (Scarey @ Dec 29 2009, 12:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=73250:date=Dec 29 2009, 02:36 PM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ Dec 29 2009, 02:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=73244:date=Dec 29 2009, 11:59 AM:name=PcB)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PcB @ Dec 29 2009, 11:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=73233:date=Dec 29 2009, 10:33 AM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ Dec 29 2009, 10:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=73215:date=Dec 29 2009, 08:46 AM:name=jstraw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ Dec 29 2009, 08:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=73209:date=Dec 29 2009, 08:07 AM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ Dec 29 2009, 08:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=73177:date=Dec 28 2009, 05:55 PM:name=jstraw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ Dec 28 2009, 05:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=73125:date=Dec 28 2009, 01:49 PM:name=Sandberg)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sandberg @ Dec 28 2009, 01:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I would likely be able to stomach a one year contract for any of the available people. But I'd rather resign Reed and platoon him with Fuld before committing multiple years to any of them.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Me fucking too.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sounds awful.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Sure...but it sounds less awful.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Less awful than what? There's not a single scenario out there worse than having Fuld as a platoon CFer, none, zero. A platoon of Johnson (and his inability to stay on the field) and Fuld(and his inability to be anything more than a 25th man) is the absolute worst option available.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A worse scenario is paying Byrd to do the same thing Fuld would do. That's a far worse scenario.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You can't even compare the 2 players, Fuld wishes he was Marlon Byrd.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

What exactly do you expect Byrd to do as a Cub? And what do you expect he would sign for?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd expect Byrd to do what he's done for the last 3 years in Texas . . . or he could come from Texas and bomb like Bradley . . . or he could come in from Texas and get better like DeRosa. Or we could pick the obviously wrong answer and put Fuld in CF instead of AAA. It's amazing to me that anyone who's seen Fuld play would think his ceiling is anything more than as a 25th man, completely astonishing actually.

As far as the $$$ go, I have no idea what Byrd would cost and I'm not gonna worry about it. Also, it's not like it's an either/or, there's 10's of option out there between FA and trades. If Byrd's the CF, fine. If someone like Cabrera is traded for, fine. If Fuld is the CF, big fucking not fine.

[ruby23]

<!--quoteo(post=73260:date=Dec 29 2009, 01:23 PM:name=Rappster)-->QUOTE (Rappster @ Dec 29 2009, 01:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=73256:date=Dec 29 2009, 01:12 PM:name=Scarey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Dec 29 2009, 01:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=73254:date=Dec 29 2009, 03:10 PM:name=Rappster)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rappster @ Dec 29 2009, 03:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=73253:date=Dec 29 2009, 12:50 PM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Dec 29 2009, 12:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=73239:date=Dec 29 2009, 11:28 AM:name=Scarey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Dec 29 2009, 11:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=73234:date=Dec 29 2009, 12:36 PM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ Dec 29 2009, 12:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Also, all you people out there clamoring to build a bullpen with a bunch of no-name minor leaguers and plugging in CF with 2 guys incapable of handling it are so fucking delusional. Doing those things accomplishes what exactly?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Saves payroll for worthwile acquisitions such as a possible replacement for Derrek Lee in the future or an ace starting pitcher. You can't just pay every player on the 25 man roster. If you get a couple of guys that can play adequately for very cheap (Marmol, Marshall, Theriot, Guzman, Soto), that improves payroll flexibility. Part of the reason the Cubs don't have payroll flexibility right now is the fact that they haven't developed a lot of guys like that. I figure if you have to have mediocre players on your team, than pay them less than a million per year rather than $3.5million.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


I assume you are referring to Grabow? Let me ask you something. Who are the really good left handed relievers that the market is paying less than a million a year for? And if we didn't sign Grabow, and on the .000000000001 percent chance that Gaub ISN'T the answer, whom should we be using in that spot?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Exactly...some of you guys are so desperate to be right, that you're almost rooting for your GM to fail.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Please don't make that assumption about me. I'm on the Grabow bandwagon. I just would have preferred to not sign him to a two year $7 mill contract for various reasons.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I'm sorry...3.5 per for a rubber-armed reliever is just fine.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Of course it is, it's more than fine, it's needed.

[BT]

<!--quoteo(post=73255:date=Dec 29 2009, 01:11 PM:name=Scarey)-->QUOTE (Scarey @ Dec 29 2009, 01:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=73253:date=Dec 29 2009, 02:50 PM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Dec 29 2009, 02:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Who are the really good left handed relievers that the market is paying less than a million a year for?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I never said there were good left handed relievers that the market is paying less thana million a year for. There could be, but I don't know off the top of my head. I said I would rather pay less than a million for mediocre production than more than 3.5 million on mediocre production (IE Grabow).

<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->And if we didn't sign Grabow, and on the .000000000001 percent chance that Gaub ISN'T the answer, whom should we be using in that spot?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Sean Marshall.


You're putting words in my mouth BT. Please don't.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


What words did I put in your mouth?

[Scarey]

<!--quoteo(post=73260:date=Dec 29 2009, 03:23 PM:name=Rappster)-->QUOTE (Rappster @ Dec 29 2009, 03:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=73256:date=Dec 29 2009, 01:12 PM:name=Scarey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Dec 29 2009, 01:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=73254:date=Dec 29 2009, 03:10 PM:name=Rappster)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rappster @ Dec 29 2009, 03:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=73253:date=Dec 29 2009, 12:50 PM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Dec 29 2009, 12:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=73239:date=Dec 29 2009, 11:28 AM:name=Scarey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Dec 29 2009, 11:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=73234:date=Dec 29 2009, 12:36 PM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ Dec 29 2009, 12:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Also, all you people out there clamoring to build a bullpen with a bunch of no-name minor leaguers and plugging in CF with 2 guys incapable of handling it are so fucking delusional. Doing those things accomplishes what exactly?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Saves payroll for worthwile acquisitions such as a possible replacement for Derrek Lee in the future or an ace starting pitcher. You can't just pay every player on the 25 man roster. If you get a couple of guys that can play adequately for very cheap (Marmol, Marshall, Theriot, Guzman, Soto), that improves payroll flexibility. Part of the reason the Cubs don't have payroll flexibility right now is the fact that they haven't developed a lot of guys like that. I figure if you have to have mediocre players on your team, than pay them less than a million per year rather than $3.5million.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


I assume you are referring to Grabow? Let me ask you something. Who are the really good left handed relievers that the market is paying less than a million a year for? And if we didn't sign Grabow, and on the .000000000001 percent chance that Gaub ISN'T the answer, whom should we be using in that spot?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Exactly...some of you guys are so desperate to be right, that you're almost rooting for your GM to fail.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Please don't make that assumption about me. I'm on the Grabow bandwagon. I just would have preferred to not sign him to a two year $7 mill contract for various reasons.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I'm sorry...3.5 per for a rubber-armed reliever is just fine.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

It's not the end of the world, but I still think it could have been put to better use.

[Scarey]

<!--quoteo(post=73266:date=Dec 29 2009, 03:33 PM:name=BT)-->QUOTE (BT @ Dec 29 2009, 03:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=73255:date=Dec 29 2009, 01:11 PM:name=Scarey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Dec 29 2009, 01:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=73253:date=Dec 29 2009, 02:50 PM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Dec 29 2009, 02:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Who are the really good left handed relievers that the market is paying less than a million a year for?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I never said there were good left handed relievers that the market is paying less thana million a year for. There could be, but I don't know off the top of my head. I said I would rather pay less than a million for mediocre production than more than 3.5 million on mediocre production (IE Grabow).

<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->And if we didn't sign Grabow, and on the .000000000001 percent chance that Gaub ISN'T the answer, whom should we be using in that spot?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Sean Marshall.


You're putting words in my mouth BT. Please don't.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


What words did I put in your mouth?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


You implied that I thought good lefty relievers are worth less than a million dollars. I never said that. I think you mistook my point which was that Grabow isn't a good lefty reliever.

You also implied that I thought Gaub was the obvious no risk answer to the Cubs lefty reliever need. The short answer would be Sean Marshall is the answer there.

The long answer would be Sean Marshall is solid lefty reliever and is all the Cubs bullpen <b>needs</b> in terms of left handed relief pitchers. However, Gaub could be the icing on the cake if he turns a fraction of his potential into results for the Cubs next year. Do you know how many pitchers have averaged 13 strikeouts per nine innings pitched in the minors? I could only find two out of a random list of recent strikeout pitchers off the top of my head. Mark Prior and Tim Lincecum. Both of whom had less than 10 games pitched in the minors. KRod hit 12Ks per nine and Wood just over 11Ks per nine.

To me, it makes sense to go with the steady guy in Marshall and take a risk on the other guy that you don't necessarily need but could be dominant if given a chance who costs next to nothing rather than spending 3.5 million on another guy that's steady but worse than Marshall.

[BT]

<!--quoteo(post=73282:date=Dec 29 2009, 01:59 PM:name=Scarey)-->QUOTE (Scarey @ Dec 29 2009, 01:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=73266:date=Dec 29 2009, 03:33 PM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Dec 29 2009, 03:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=73255:date=Dec 29 2009, 01:11 PM:name=Scarey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Dec 29 2009, 01:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=73253:date=Dec 29 2009, 02:50 PM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Dec 29 2009, 02:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Who are the really good left handed relievers that the market is paying less than a million a year for?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I never said there were good left handed relievers that the market is paying less thana million a year for. There could be, but I don't know off the top of my head. I said I would rather pay less than a million for mediocre production than more than 3.5 million on mediocre production (IE Grabow).

<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->And if we didn't sign Grabow, and on the .000000000001 percent chance that Gaub ISN'T the answer, whom should we be using in that spot?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Sean Marshall.


You're putting words in my mouth BT. Please don't.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


What words did I put in your mouth?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


You implied that I thought good lefty relievers are worth less than a million dollars. I never said that. I think you mistook my point which was that Grabow isn't a good lefty reliever.

You also implied that I thought Gaub was the obvious no risk answer to the Cubs lefty reliever need. The short answer would be Sean Marshall is the answer there.

The long answer would be Sean Marshall is solid lefty reliever and is all the Cubs bullpen <b>needs</b> in terms of left handed relief pitchers. However, Gaub could be the icing on the cake if he turns a fraction of his potential into results for the Cubs next year. Do you know how many pitchers have averaged 13 strikeouts per nine innings pitched in the minors? I could only find two out of a random list of recent strikeout pitchers off the top of my head. Mark Prior and Tim Lincecum. Both of whom had less than 10 games pitched in the minors. KRod hit 12Ks per nine and Wood just over 11Ks per nine.

To me, it makes sense to go with the steady guy in Marshall and take a risk on the other guy that you don't necessarily need but could be dominant if given a chance who costs next to nothing rather than spending 3.5 million on another guy that's steady but worse than Marshall.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


No, I implied that you thought we were paying too much for Grabow. Which you did. I also never claimed you said Gaub was no risk. My point was two fold. And it's now 3 fold.

One. People keep bitching about signing a lefty reliever to a 3.5 million dollar contract. Well, I have news for you. That's the going rate for a lefty reliever. It may be wrong. It may be "too much". But that is what a lefty reliever will cost you. Unless you decide to fill from within. Which brings me to....

Two. In a perfect world Gaub WILL come in and fill the lefty spot for us. I'm desperately hoping he will. I think he can. But that doesn't mean he WILL. There was a time where I thought Juan Mateo was can't miss. And if Gaub can't, and if Hendry had decided to fill from within, there is no one left. Or, exactly where we found ourselves last year. Unless they go by what you suggested and turn to Marshall. Which brings me to...

Three. Sean Marshall was an effective starter, pushed out of the rotation by the fact we had too many starters. If it's your plan that instead of signing Grabow to what was, at worst, a market level contract, we should turn a young, effective, lefty starter into our situational lefty out of the bullpen, a LOOGY, I'd argue that perhaps it's not the most effective use of resources. As of right now, he is insurance against injuries from our starters, and if he is not needed, he is valuable trade bait. Without Grabow, he is a guy who we need in the pen to keep the other team honest, but will only pitch 30-40 innings.

I don't think it's insane for Hendry to have hedged against that by signing Grabow.

[veryzer]

If the cubs go into next season with a fuld/johnson platoon, i will scream. i'll be livid. That's just throwing in the towel before the season even starts.

and the grabow thing is just fine. it's a non-story.

[Ace]

If the choice is a Fuld/Johnson platoon or a three-year, backloaded contract for Marlon Byrd, I'll take the Fuld/Johnson risk every time.

They are massively superior defensively, and I prom-prom-promise they will not be significantly worse offensively. They won't be great, that's for sure. But none of the options available would be. And they would be the cheapest and best defensively of the realistic options.

[Scarey]

<!--quoteo(post=73309:date=Dec 29 2009, 04:43 PM:name=BT)-->QUOTE (BT @ Dec 29 2009, 04:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->No, I implied that you thought we were paying too much for Grabow. Which you did.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

If that was your point, then I must apologize. It read differently to me.

<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->I also never claimed you said Gaub was no risk. My point was two fold. And it's now 3 fold.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

This doesn't make much sense to me. The .00000001 % chance of not working out was obvious hyperbole. So, what did you mean by that hyperbole? I assume it to mean that there's a legitimate chance that Gaub doesn't work out. I never claimed there wasn't.


<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->One. People keep bitching about signing a lefty reliever to a 3.5 million dollar contract. Well, I have news for you. That's the going rate for a lefty reliever.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

No argument from me there. The thing is, I happen to believe that:

1. Grabow's ERA is deceiving. Based on his peripherals, it's very possible that he could implode. He doesn't strike out a ton of guys but allows a huge amount of baserunners. It's not a recipe for success usually. Maybe he just excels at allowing baserunners and getting them out with contact. I don't think I've known a pitcher that did that specifically well though.
2. I happen to believe that we did not need a lefty. This seems to be our greater point of contension.


<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->In a perfect world Gaub WILL come in and fill the lefty spot for us. I'm desperately hoping he will. I think he can. But that doesn't mean he WILL.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I understand that BT. I really do. What I don't understand is how can you hope to develop guys if you don't show them some level of commitment? If you give Gaub a chance where there's a fallback option (Marshall) then I personally think that's a good level of commitment to a pitcher as talented as Gaub. He isn't <b>needed </b> if Marshall is the main leftyl. In this current scenario, we will have Grabow and Marshall as lefties out of the bullpen. What are the chances Gaub is given the chance to make the major league roster as the third lefty out of the bullpen?

<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->Three. Sean Marshall was an <b>effective starter</b>, pushed out of the rotation by the fact we had too many starters.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Ok, here's the meat of our argument. I've been a big believer in Marshall for quite some time. I always hoped for him to be a #3/4 pitcher in the rotation. I just think he's proven that he is not a starter.

As a starter, Marshall has a 4.84 ERA, a WHIP of 1.43, and 6.1 K/9 innings in 59 career starts.

As a reliever, he has a 3.15 ERA, a WHIP of 1.35, and 7.7 K/9 innings in 75 games. Also, I can't track down inherited runners stranded numbers, but Marshall has been shown to have a knack in not allowing inherited runners score.

To me, I think Marshall is a reliever now. I could be wrong, but I personally have drawn that conclusion. I understand why you have not, I'm just saying this is the main reason we have this disagreement.

<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->I don't think it's insane for Hendry to have hedged against that by signing Grabow.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I never said that. I just said I believe the money could have been used more effectively.

[ruby23]

Scarey, you sure are wasting a shitload of time posting about something you're so clearly wrong about.

[Ace]

<!--quoteo(post=73336:date=Dec 30 2009, 08:51 AM:name=ruby23)-->QUOTE (ruby23 @ Dec 30 2009, 08:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Scarey, you sure are wasting a shitload of time posting about something you're so clearly wrong about.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Ignore this, Scarey. Everything you've said is spot on.

Some folks (ruby, not BT) seem to think all relievers everywhere must be purchased. Oh, except Marmol, Guzman, Marshall....

Snapdragon!

[Coldneck]

<!--quoteo(post=73338:date=Dec 30 2009, 08:58 AM:name=Ace)-->QUOTE (Ace @ Dec 30 2009, 08:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=73336:date=Dec 30 2009, 08:51 AM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ Dec 30 2009, 08:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Scarey, you sure are wasting a shitload of time posting about something you're so clearly wrong about.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Ignore this, Scarey. Everything you've said is spot on.

Some folks (ruby, not BT) seem to think all relievers everywhere must be purchased. Oh, except Marmol, Guzman, Marshall....

Snapdragon!
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
+1, except for the Snapdragon part.

I for one think it is a folly to spend serious cash on relief pitching because their performance (and health) is so difficult to predict and varies so much year to year (obvisously there are exceptions to this such as Joe Nathan, Trevor Hoffman, and Mariano Rivera). Spending $7M on Grabow isn't as bad as spending $44M on BJ Ryan, or Coco Cordero, but it's still a mistake.