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Prometheus · 01-06-2010, 12:38 PM

Honestly, how can you look at Hendry's body of work and think he's anything but one of the worst GMs out there?

His management of the roster is terrible. He's frequently forced to trade players who are out of options but don't have a place in the lineup. The Cubs are constantly plagued by the options problem, maybe more than any other team in baseball. Not to mention, recently the Cubs have allowed a few decent prospects to go via the Rule 5 draft in favor of guys like Joey Gathright.

His ability in contract negotiations is also poor. The Soriano, Wood, and Bradley deals are good examples of this. He just recently committed decent money to Grabow despite having almost no payroll flexibility. He's not a good manager of money. Look at how cash-strapped the Cubs are right now, yet they're still full of holes.

His drafting hasn't paid off either. How many successful major league players has he drafted in his time here? The only thing he seems to be good at in the draft is finding small, gritty middle infielders from LSU.

He's made some good trades, I'll give him that, but he's also made plenty of bad ones. Anyone remember us giving away 3 minor league pitchers for Juan Pierre? What about Cedeno for Heilman or Bradley for Silva? Most of the good trades Hendry has made were the result of salary dumps by small market teams. You could bring any guy in and get the same trades done.

Coldneck · 01-06-2010, 01:01 PM

QUOTE (Prometheus @ Jan 6 2010, 11:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Honestly, how can you look at Hendry's body of work and think he's anything but one of the worst GMs out there?

His management of the roster is terrible. He's frequently forced to trade players who are out of options but don't have a place in the lineup. The Cubs are constantly plagued by the options problem, maybe more than any other team in baseball. Not to mention, recently the Cubs have allowed a few decent prospects to go via the Rule 5 draft in favor of guys like Joey Gathright.

His ability in contract negotiations is also poor. The Soriano, Wood, and Bradley deals are good examples of this. He just recently committed decent money to Grabow despite having almost no payroll flexibility. He's not a good manager of money. Look at how cash-strapped the Cubs are right now, yet they're still full of holes.

His drafting hasn't paid off either. How many successful major league players has he drafted in his time here? The only thing he seems to be good at in the draft is finding small, gritty middle infielders from LSU.

He's made some good trades, I'll give him that, but he's also made plenty of bad ones. Anyone remember us giving away 3 minor league pitchers for Juan Pierre? What about Cedeno for Heilman or Bradley for Silva? Most of the good trades Hendry has made were the result of salary dumps by small market teams. You could bring any guy in and get the same trades done.

Is this how i sound when I'm bitching about Jim Hendry? If so, I'm sorry.

BT · 01-06-2010, 01:16 PM

QUOTE Honestly, how can you look at Hendry's body of work and think he's anything but one of the worst GMs out there?

Because "body of work" constitutes more than 2009?

Look, I could spend all day arguing your post, but I'll stick to a few highlights.

QUOTE Not to mention, recently the Cubs have allowed a few decent prospects to go via the Rule 5 draft in favor of guys like Joey Gathright.

Like who?

QUOTE Look at how cash-strapped the Cubs are right now, yet they're still full of holes.

Yes, it's completely Hendry's fault that during the 2 years the Cubs didn't actually have an owner, that he was operating in essentially 3 different modes, budget wise. He had a budget. Then he was told to spend MORE money (to make the franchise more sellable). Then he was told to spend less money, after handing out contracts based on the earlier budget. Oh, then throw in a recession to boot.

QUOTE The only thing he seems to be good at in the draft is finding small, gritty middle infielders from LSU.

Yes, just those. And catchers who win rookie of the year awards. And pitchers who SHOULD have won rookie of the year awards. And middle relievers who go to the all star game, as middle relievers. Then they close. Oh, and pitchers who make the all star team, set strike out records, and then blow their arms out (hendry's fault). And any number of other players shipped off in trades. That's all he seems to be good at.

QUOTE What about Cedeno for Heilman or Bradley for Silva?

Really? That is where we are at now? Lamenting the loss of Ronny fucking Cedeno? He of the NEGATIVE WAR last year? The guy who, statistically, HURT his team by being on the field? Or we are going to complain that we didn't get enough for the guy who called his home town fans racist, explained why he didn't want to actually play any more than 9 innings, and eventually spent the last weeks of the season watching from home? Because a GOOD GM would have spun Bradley into Strasburg I guess?

I get tired of defending Hendry. I do. But when the attacks are unreasonable, I feel I need to correct the record a bit.

Here is a summation from before last year from the guys at Fangraphs. They ranked the Cubs organization 7th overall, and gave Hendry a B-. That seems more than fair. Bear in mind, Hendry is not their kind of GM, as they are all about stats. But they gave him a reasonable write up. They are looking at his body of work and see both good and bad.

QUOTE Front Office: B-

Believe it or not, Jim Hendry has a good eye for talent. When he was the Cubs scouting director, the team acquired a significant batch of young talent, and he consistently built farm systems that were supplying the Cubs with impact players. Since being promoted to GM, his weaknesses have been exposed, however – the team has had problems in how the young talent is integrated into the major league roster and the team has shown questionable discernment in handing out contracts to free agents. He’s built a quality major league roster, but squandered a lot of assets in getting there.

Destined · 01-06-2010, 02:37 PM

QUOTE (BT @ Jan 6 2010, 09:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE Honestly, how can you look at Hendry's body of work and think he's anything but one of the worst GMs out there?

Because "body of work" constitutes more than 2009?

Look, I could spend all day arguing your post, but I'll stick to a few highlights.

QUOTE Not to mention, recently the Cubs have allowed a few decent prospects to go via the Rule 5 draft in favor of guys like Joey Gathright.

Like who?

QUOTE Look at how cash-strapped the Cubs are right now, yet they're still full of holes.

Yes, it's completely Hendry's fault that during the 2 years the Cubs didn't actually have an owner, that he was operating in essentially 3 different modes, budget wise. He had a budget. Then he was told to spend MORE money (to make the franchise more sellable). Then he was told to spend less money, after handing out contracts based on the earlier budget. Oh, then throw in a recession to boot.

QUOTE The only thing he seems to be good at in the draft is finding small, gritty middle infielders from LSU.

Yes, just those. And catchers who win rookie of the year awards. And pitchers who SHOULD have won rookie of the year awards. And middle relievers who go to the all star game, as middle relievers. Then they close. Oh, and pitchers who make the all star team, set strike out records, and then blow their arms out (hendry's fault). And any number of other players shipped off in trades. That's all he seems to be good at.

QUOTE What about Cedeno for Heilman or Bradley for Silva?

Really? That is where we are at now? Lamenting the loss of Ronny fucking Cedeno? He of the NEGATIVE WAR last year? The guy who, statistically, HURT his team by being on the field? Or we are going to complain that we didn't get enough for the guy who called his home town fans racist, explained why he didn't want to actually play any more than 9 innings, and eventually spent the last weeks of the season watching from home? Because a GOOD GM would have spun Bradley into Strasburg I guess?

I get tired of defending Hendry. I do. But when the attacks are unreasonable, I feel I need to correct the record a bit.

Here is a summation from before last year from the guys at Fangraphs. They ranked the Cubs organization 7th overall, and gave Hendry a B-. That seems more than fair. Bear in mind, Hendry is not their kind of GM, as they are all about stats. But they gave him a reasonable write up. They are looking at his body of work and see both good and bad.

QUOTE Front Office: B-

Believe it or not, Jim Hendry has a good eye for talent. When he was the Cubs scouting director, the team acquired a significant batch of young talent, and he consistently built farm systems that were supplying the Cubs with impact players. Since being promoted to GM, his weaknesses have been exposed, however – the team has had problems in how the young talent is integrated into the major league roster and the team has shown questionable discernment in handing out contracts to free agents. He’s built a quality major league roster, but squandered a lot of assets in getting there.
</div>
Absolutely agreed, BT.

Prometheus · 01-06-2010, 03:18 PM

QUOTE Like who?

What about Sisco and Veal? Two fairly advanced LH pitchers given away for nothing. Randy Wells was nearly let go via Rule 5.

Then what about trading prospects who were out of options for next to nothing? It would have been nice to have Pie last season when the team was desperate for a CF (he's not exceptional, but due to his defense he's worth about a WAR per season and is owed almost nothing). Instead we got Gathright for a month.

QUOTE Yes, it's completely Hendry's fault that during the 2 years the Cubs didn't actually have an owner, that he was operating in essentially 3 different modes, budget wise. He had a budget. Then he was told to spend MORE money (to make the franchise more sellable). Then he was told to spend less money, after handing out contracts based on the earlier budget. Oh, then throw in a recession to boot.

No, it's Hendry's fault that he can't spend money wisely. The fact that the Cubs have no payroll flexibility wouldn't be a problem had Hendry been wiser with the contracts he gave out earlier, but he wasn't. Now the Cubs are committed to a group of players that is aging but not good enough to contend. Zambrano, Soriano, Bradley, Wood, Miles, and Fukudome were all bad contracts given by Hendry.

QUOTE Yes, just those. And catchers who win rookie of the year awards. And pitchers who SHOULD have won rookie of the year awards. And middle relievers who go to the all star game, as middle relievers. Then they close. Oh, and pitchers who make the all star team, set strike out records, and then blow their arms out (hendry's fault). And any number of other players shipped off in trades. That's all he seems to be good at.

Soto has been a good, homegrown player. But Marmol is erratic and always has been. Prior was a big risk when he was drafted and it came back to bite Hendry.

But even if we recognize those players - Hendry has been involved with the drafting and the minor leagues for 15 years. In that time, how many good players have the Cubs drafted/developed that have stuck with the team for more than a few years? The Cubs teams of the past decade have had how many homegrown players?

QUOTE Really? That is where we are at now? Lamenting the loss of Ronny fucking Cedeno? He of the NEGATIVE WAR last year? The guy who, statistically, HURT his team by being on the field? Or we are going to complain that we didn't get enough for the guy who called his home town fans racist, explained why he didn't want to actually play any more than 9 innings, and eventually spent the last weeks of the season watching from home? Because a GOOD GM would have spun Bradley into Strasburg I guess?

It's not the loss of Cedeno, it's the trade of a prospect with any value for a veteran has-been who gave the Cubs nothing and was already signed to a contract he didn't deserve. Then the Cubs proceeded to sign Aaron Miles, who was statistically worse than Cedeno, to a contract he merited for only one season of his career.

Now onto Bradley - the Cubs traded this guy for what amounts to $6MM over 2 seasons. The initial mistake was signing him, but they sold him at his absolute lowest value and sold him for nearly nothing. They used the money to sign Marlon Byrd. It's very possible that Silva won't make the roster. So in the end they will be paying $12MM for Marlon Byrd this season and $14MM next season. All this to trade a guy whose wOBA was actually above average last season.

We haven't even discussed the Juan Pierre trade.

So tell me what evidence there is in favor of Hendry's ability to negotiate contracts and manage the roster?

***jstraw*** · 01-06-2010, 03:19 PM

QUOTE <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE Like who?

What about Sisco and Veal? Two fairly advanced LH pitchers given away for nothing. Randy Wells was nearly let go via Rule 5.

Then what about trading prospects who were out of options for next to nothing? It would have been nice to have Pie last season when the team was desperate for a CF (he's not exceptional, but due to his defense he's worth about a WAR per season and is owed almost nothing). Instead we got Gathright for a month.

QUOTE Yes, it's completely Hendry's fault that during the 2 years the Cubs didn't actually have an owner, that he was operating in essentially 3 different modes, budget wise. He had a budget. Then he was told to spend MORE money (to make the franchise more sellable). Then he was told to spend less money, after handing out contracts based on the earlier budget. Oh, then throw in a recession to boot.

No, it's Hendry's fault that he can't spend money wisely. The fact that the Cubs have no payroll flexibility wouldn't be a problem had Hendry been wiser with the contracts he gave out earlier, but he wasn't. Now the Cubs are committed to a group of players that is aging but not good enough to contend. Zambrano, Soriano, Bradley, Wood, Miles, and Fukudome were all bad contracts given by Hendry.

QUOTE Yes, just those. And catchers who win rookie of the year awards. And pitchers who SHOULD have won rookie of the year awards. And middle relievers who go to the all star game, as middle relievers. Then they close. Oh, and pitchers who make the all star team, set strike out records, and then blow their arms out (hendry's fault). And any number of other players shipped off in trades. That's all he seems to be good at.

Soto has been a good, homegrown player. But Marmol is erratic and always has been. Prior was a big risk when he was drafted and it came back to bite Hendry.

But even if we recognize those players - Hendry has been involved with the drafting and the minor leagues for 15 years. In that time, how many good players have the Cubs drafted/developed that have stuck with the team for more than a few years? The Cubs teams of the past decade have had how many homegrown players?

QUOTE Really? That is where we are at now? Lamenting the loss of Ronny fucking Cedeno? He of the NEGATIVE WAR last year? The guy who, statistically, HURT his team by being on the field? Or we are going to complain that we didn't get enough for the guy who called his home town fans racist, explained why he didn't want to actually play any more than 9 innings, and eventually spent the last weeks of the season watching from home? Because a GOOD GM would have spun Bradley into Strasburg I guess?

It's not the loss of Cedeno, it's the trade of a prospect with any value for a veteran has-been who gave the Cubs nothing and was already signed to a contract he didn't deserve. Then the Cubs proceeded to sign Aaron Miles, who was statistically worse than Cedeno, to a contract he merited for only one season of his career.

Now onto Bradley - the Cubs traded this guy for what amounts to $6MM over 2 seasons. The initial mistake was signing him, but they sold him at his absolute lowest value and sold him for nearly nothing. They used the money to sign Marlon Byrd. It's very possible that Silva won't make the roster. So in the end they will be paying $12MM for Marlon Byrd this season and $14MM next season. All this to trade a guy whose wOBA was actually above average last season.

We haven't even discussed the Juan Pierre trade.

So tell me what evidence there is in favor of Hendry's ability to negotiate contracts and manage the roster?</div>

Fixed.

The Dude · 01-06-2010, 03:23 PM

Prior was a risk when he was drafted? You mean the guy who everyone said had the best mechanics of any pitcher ever?

***Butcher*** · 01-06-2010, 03:25 PM

QUOTE Prior was a big risk when he was drafted and it came back to bite Hendry.
Prior was pretty much every team's #1 pick that year -- it was a no-brainer. I actually agree with a lot of what you're saying, but this one doesn't make sense. As much as I think we need a new GM, he also isn't the worst GM in baseball -- not really even close. There are a surprising amount of morons who are GMs of baseball teams.

PcB · 01-06-2010, 03:28 PM

QUOTE (The Dude @ Jan 6 2010, 01:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Prior was a risk when he was drafted? You mean the guy who everyone said had the best mechanics of any pitcher ever?
Yeah, I stopped reading after that. That's really just a stupid thing to say.

Prometheus · 01-06-2010, 03:28 PM

QUOTE (The Dude @ Jan 6 2010, 01:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Prior was a risk when he was drafted? You mean the guy who everyone said had the best mechanics of any pitcher ever?

No, I mean the tremendously used college pitcher who was given $10.5MM before he even threw a pitch in the majors. You don't think that was a risk?

BT · 01-06-2010, 03:59 PM

QUOTE What about Sisco and Veal? Two fairly advanced LH pitchers given away for nothing.

OH CRAP! My bad. I'm so embarrassed. I forgot about the asshole/headcase who had ONE YEAR of sub 7.11 ERA, and who is now out of baseball! Of course, that 7.11 for Sisco was better than Veal's 7.16 (not to mention the 20 walks in 16 innings, which is the reason the Cubs gave up on him), but since he had a good month in the AFL, I think we can all safely conclude he will be around another 15-20 years, antagonizing us. Why, this is nearly as bad as when the Pirates (via the A's) stole Javier Martinez from us in 1999. I remember reading all the articles about how THAT was going to come back and bite us in the ass.

QUOTE Then what about trading prospects who were out of options for next to nothing? It would have been nice to have Pie last season when the team was desperate for a CF (he's not exceptional, but due to his defense he's worth about a WAR per season and is owed almost nothing). Instead we got Gathright for a month.

We didn't have a spot for Pie last year. Period. He played badly for us, and yes, he was out of options. We couldn't afford to carry him, so we had to trade him. If the Cubs weren't coming off a 97 win season, maybe we could have, but we couldn't. He would not get playing time with us, and would probably still be viewed as a failed prospect. It sucks, but it happens all the time.

QUOTE No, it's Hendry's fault that he can't spend money wisely. The fact that the Cubs have no payroll flexibility wouldn't be a problem had Hendry been wiser with the contracts he gave out earlier, but he wasn't. Now the Cubs are committed to a group of players that is aging but not good enough to contend. Zambrano, Soriano, Bradley, Wood, Miles, and Fukudome were all bad contracts given by Hendry.

No, it's partially Hendry's fault, partially the Tribs fault for jacking up then bringing down his budget, and partially the players faults for sucking. Zambrano (and ARam) probably signed for less than they would get on the open market. Soriano was the first big free agent we ever actually got, and if we paid over the market value, it wasn't by much. Why is Wood even listed here? When he was healthy, he was UNDER paid. Fuk took LESS to sign with the Cubs. Bradley and Miles were bad signings. They happen.

I'm going to ignore the rest of this because much of it is either unfair or doesn't make sense (Wells counts as a strike AGAINST Hendry because we ALMOST lost him to the Blue Jays, but he gets no credit for him having a lights out rookie year? Prior was "risky"? No credit for Wood or Zambrano? Marshall? Guzman? ).

QUOTE So tell me what evidence there is in favor of Hendry's ability to negotiate contracts and manage the roster?

manage the roster? His teams have been in the playoffs 3 of the last 7 years.

Negotiate contracts?

Lilly
Dempster
ARam
Lee
DeRosa

That's just off the top of my head. Every one of those guys is/was signed for less than either what the market would pay them, or for what they are worth.

Hendry's record is spotty. It's hit or miss. The problem is, you take every miss, and act as if the hits don't exist. And that's the biggest problem I have with your argument. You bitch and moan about Felix Pie, Donnie Veal, and Ronny fucking Cedeno (who was caught stealing second on on a mother fucking WALK for God's sake), and you ignore that Hendry procured either through the draft, trade, or sensible contracts, the guys who make up the meat of a team that, while they have disappointed, have also been the best team we've seen in our lifetimes.

In a word, you are being unfair.

Prometheus · 01-06-2010, 05:11 PM

QUOTE OH CRAP! My bad. I'm so embarrassed. I forgot about the asshole/headcase who had ONE YEAR of sub 7.11 ERA, and who is now out of baseball! Of course, that 7.11 for Sisco was better than Veal's 7.16 (not to mention the 20 walks in 16 innings, which is the reason the Cubs gave up on him), but since he had a good month in the AFL, I think we can all safely conclude he will be around another 15-20 years, antagonizing us. Why, this is nearly as bad as when the Pirates (via the A's) stole Javier Martinez from us in 1999. I remember reading all the articles about how THAT was going to come back and bite us in the ass.

It's impossible to determine whether Sisco would have panned out with the Cubs if he was allowed to stick around in the minors and wasn't forced to the big leagues. Still, he was a decent young LH arm that the Cubs didn't protect. Veal was the same way. Yet the team always had a roster spot for Neifi Perez and a horde of mediocre middle infielders.

QUOTE We didn't have a spot for Pie last year. Period. He played badly for us, and yes, he was out of options. We couldn't afford to carry him, so we had to trade him. If the Cubs weren't coming off a 97 win season, maybe we could have, but we couldn't. He would not get playing time with us, and would probably still be viewed as a failed prospect. It sucks, but it happens all the time.

Why did we not have a spot for him? We traded him, then proceeded to sign Gathright to play the same role/position Pie could have filled. He was jerked around by the organization for a few years, ran out of options, and was traded at possibly his lowest value. How is that good roster/asset management? How many chances did Hendry have to trade him as part of a deal for an established player?

QUOTE No, it's partially Hendry's fault, partially the Tribs fault for jacking up then bringing down his budget, and partially the players faults for sucking. Zambrano (and ARam) probably signed for less than they would get on the open market. Soriano was the first big free agent we ever actually got, and if we paid over the market value, it wasn't by much. Why is Wood even listed here? When he was healthy, he was UNDER paid. Fuk took LESS to sign with the Cubs. Bradley and Miles were bad signings. They happen.

How does the overall budget have to do with overpaying individual players during negotiations? Hendry's job is to look at his payroll and spend it according to his own plan. The problem is that he overpays players and is left with little flexibility.

As for the individual contracts, Zambrano has been overpaid in every year of his contract if you look at WAR. In '08 he was paid $5.7MM per win. Last year he was paid $4.9MM per win. Those are not good numbers at all. Soriano earned his contract in his first year, came close last year, and with his diminishing skills will likely not earn the $18MM/year paid to him for the next 6 years. His contract is an albatross and will hurt the Cubs for years. Kerry Wood's most recent contract with the club was an overpayment considering there was no market for him after his injury. Fukudome is about as valuable as Marlon Byrd (based on WAR) but nobody would want Marlon Byrd on that contract.

QUOTE I'm going to ignore the rest of this because much of it is either unfair or doesn't make sense (Wells counts as a strike AGAINST Hendry because we ALMOST lost him to the Blue Jays, but he gets no credit for him having a lights out rookie year? Prior was "risky"? No credit for Wood or Zambrano? Marshall? Guzman? ).

It's a strike against Hendry that he would allow a decent prospect like Wells to even be drafted in rule 5 when the Cubs had the likes of Wade Miller and Clay Rapada on their 25 man roster at certain points in the same season. He gets credit for having a good rookie year (though if you believe in FIP and supporting stats, he probably isn't as good as his rookie numbers show). But again, Hendry has been in charge of the Cubs' farm system for 15 years and the best longterm Cubs he drafted/developed during that time have been Zambrano and Wood. That's not exactly a huge success.

QUOTE manage the roster? His teams have been in the playoffs 3 of the last 7 years.

Managing the roster has to do with a lot more than making the playoffs. Given Hendry's payroll the last few seasons, it's not surprising that his team has made the playoffs. But they've failed to advance in the playoffs both years. The NL Central wasn't exactly the most competitive division in the league either.

What of the Cubs' constant reliance on injury-prone pitchers? What of a roster which constantly includes multitudes of middle infielders who are forced to play corner OF and IF spots? What of players constantly running out of options?

QUOTE Negotiate contracts?

Lilly
Dempster
ARam
Lee
DeRosa

That's just off the top of my head. Every one of those guys is/was signed for less than either what the market would pay them, or for what they are worth.

The problem with this thinking is that bad contracts aren't "canceled out" by other market value contracts or even by below-market value contracts. Sure, the Cubs have some players who they signed to solid contracts, but they have a bunch of guys who are paid huge money on back-loaded deals that provide them with no flexibility. The only way to move contracts like Soriano's or Fukudome's is to pay a good amount of the salary, and that still leaves the team with holes to fill. When you make mistakes on so many large contracts, it's tough to redeem yourself. You saw that happen last season and I believe it will continue.

QUOTE Hendry's record is spotty. It's hit or miss. The problem is, you take every miss, and act as if the hits don't exist. And that's the biggest problem I have with your argument. You bitch and moan about Felix Pie, Donnie Veal, and Ronny fucking Cedeno (who was caught stealing second on on a mother fucking WALK for God's sake), and you ignore that Hendry procured either through the draft, trade, or sensible contracts, the guys who make up the meat of a team that, while they have disappointed, have also been the best team we've seen in our lifetimes.

You're not seeing the value of a cheap asset. This is Hendry's problem as well. Why go out and sign Joey Gathright when you just traded away a younger, cheaper guy with similar skills? Why sign Aaron Miles when you just traded away a capable middle infielder who could backup 2B and SS?

And I'm sorry, but being swept in 2 straight postseasons to me is not a great accomplishment. The Cubs feasted on the NL Central when the Cardinals were down, but now they're going to be handicapped for a few years while they try to get out of Hendry's mess of spending. The team is full of aging players who are going to be paid a ton over the next few seasons.

BT · 01-06-2010, 05:27 PM

I've got to go to a meeting. I'll come back to this later. I'll come back to it because I am genetically incapable of reading this much nonsense, and not responding to it. The sheer volume of wrongness is staggering. I'll give you just one retort from now, because I can keep it short.

You are blaming the cubs being swept in the post season on the GM? You think the GM, who makes up the team should get no credit for 97 wins, but SHOULD be held accountable for what those very same players did for 3 games? Do you have the slightest idea how absurdly, staggeringly, comically wrong that notion is?

cherp · 01-06-2010, 06:12 PM

QUOTE (BT @ Jan 6 2010, 03:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I've got to go to a meeting. I'll come back to this later. I'll come back to it because I am genetically incapable of reading this much nonsense, and not responding to it. The sheer volume of wrongness is staggering. I'll give you just one retort from now, because I can keep it short.

You are blaming the cubs being swept in the post season on the GM? You think the GM, who makes up the team should get no credit for 97 wins, but SHOULD be held accountable for what those very same players did for 3 games? Do you have the slightest idea how absurdly, staggeringly, comically wrong that notion is?

You are so absolutely friggin right!

BT · 01-06-2010, 06:43 PM

QUOTE It's impossible to determine whether Sisco would have panned out with the Cubs if he was allowed to stick around in the minors and wasn't forced to the big leagues.

But it's NOT impossible. Sisco and Veal, in a large part, were given up on by the Cubs. They WEREN'T going to make it with them. Sisco was supposedly lazy, and Veal couldn't find the strike zone. It's certainly possible that the Pirates figured out what was wrong with Veal, and he will be effective from here on out (and if that is the case, someone IS to blame, but it's not Hendry), but the one thing we do know is that these guys weren't likely to be effective with the Cubs.

QUOTE Why did we not have a spot for him?

because he was BAD. For right or wrong, the Cubs felt that a veteran like Gathright was more likely to help them than Pie was. They were trying to win the World Series. The Orioles were not. The Orioles could afford the luxury of bringing Pie along. The Cubs could not.

QUOTE How many chances did Hendry have to trade him as part of a deal for an established player?

I have no idea. How in God's name do you?

QUOTE How does the overall budget have to do with overpaying individual players during negotiations?

This can't possibly be a serious question. I can't believe I have to explain this to you. I'll be short. There is a VAST difference between ownership saying "spend whatever you need to spend in order to win" and them saying "We are cutting your budget". As Cherp and I have pointed out on other threads, the almighty GM of the Red Sox overpays for people ALL THE TIME. Because he can. However, he hasn't had the rug subsequently pulled out from under him later.

QUOTE As for the individual contracts, Zambrano has been overpaid in every year of his contract if you look at WAR. In '08 he was paid $5.7MM per win.

Possibly, but he was UNDERPAID according to the market, when he signed. He signed for less than he would have got on the open market. And WAR aside, the market is the only thing that matters.

QUOTE Soriano earned his contract in his first year, came close last year, and with his diminishing skills will likely not earn the $18MM/year paid to him for the next 6 years. His contract is an albatross and will hurt the Cubs for years. Kerry Wood's most recent contract with the club was an overpayment considering there was no market for him after his injury. Fukudome is about as valuable as Marlon Byrd (based on WAR) but nobody would want Marlon Byrd on that contract.

Soriano is overpaid. everyone on the planet knows this, INCLUDING Hendry. And he knew it at the time. However, he did it because he could.

As for the rest of this, you don't see how dishonest your arguments are? You bring up WAR for Zambrano, but you ignore it for Wood because Wood was FAR more valuable than his contract. Fukdome has actually played pretty much in line with his contract according to WAR, but instead of bringing it up, you compare him to another player. You keep changing the argument to suit your point.

I'll have to get back to this later.

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