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<!--quoteo(post=78976:date=Feb 8 2010, 07:03 PM:name=Lance)-->QUOTE (Lance @ Feb 8 2010, 07:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Now that Tommy is gone, I'm feeling more and more alone in the "Sammy was great, regardless of anything else" camp here. I took great joy from Sammy for many years. Ryno may be the only other player who has personally provided me as much happiness as Sammy.
Yeah, it ended badly, but as with some relationships, that didn't cancel out all of the great times.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I still loves me some Sammy. Always will.
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I don't care if he did steroids, never did. I've got a bunch of his cards hanging in my office right now, next to Banks, Sandberg, Jenkins, Dawson, Santo, and Williams . . . right where he belongs.
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See, I'm not the biggest Sammy fan, never have been, but I don't hate him either, and still have fond memories of him in his prime. Problem is that when he played, my interest in the game was at an all time low, so I felt really uncomfortable during 1998. Fact: The emergence of Wood that year got me much more excited about our future than Sammy's ridiculous stats. I still enjoyed watching both, but have always been more drawn to great pitching than HRs.
All that said, I hope the organization and Sammy can make amends one day. He will never be my favorite Cub, but it is wrong to treat him as a pariah, when the organization obviously knew what was going on and simply looked the other way and cashed in on a roided up Sammy. Make nice and move on.
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Sammy was also still black in 1998.
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Did you know... that Derrek Lee is only 4 points behind Sammy Sosa in career OPS. Lee ranks 108th all-time, Sosa ranks 102nd.
I was just randomly checking out stats on BR and noticed that.
@TheBlogfines
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Many of my favorite Cubs memories involve Sammy. And they all feel tainted. Which sucks.
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<!--quoteo(post=79107:date=Feb 9 2010, 05:54 PM:name=Ace)-->QUOTE (Ace @ Feb 9 2010, 05:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Many of my favorite Cubs memories involve Sammy. And they all feel tainted. Which sucks.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yep.
@TheBlogfines
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<!--quoteo(post=79107:date=Feb 9 2010, 07:54 PM:name=Ace)-->QUOTE (Ace @ Feb 9 2010, 07:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Many of my favorite Cubs memories involve Sammy. And they all feel tainted. Which sucks.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
"feel...taint....sucks" hehehe
I'm 100% fine with this. I'm just glad there's an actual plan in place that isn't, "Let's load up on retreads and hope we get lucky." I'm a little tired of that plan.
Butcher
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<!--quoteo(post=79107:date=Feb 9 2010, 06:54 PM:name=Ace)-->QUOTE (Ace @ Feb 9 2010, 06:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Many of my favorite Cubs memories involve Sammy. And they all feel tainted. Which sucks.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I fell in love and became a diehard in 1998 at the age of 8 (going onto 9). So... yeah.
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." - George Carlin
"That was some of the saddest stuff I've ever read. Fuck cancer and AIDS, ignorance is the scourge of the land." - tom v
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<!--quoteo(post=78982:date=Feb 8 2010, 09:34 PM:name=jstraw)-->QUOTE (jstraw @ Feb 8 2010, 09:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->The baseball writers are enforcing a kind of justice because the Hall isn't handing out any more asterisks.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I know this is tangential--and I'm not claiming that you're standing squarely with the baseball writers--but I can't help but feel that in the cases of some of these writers (and probably many of them), their "no" votes is hypocritical for McGwire. Many fans were throwing roids accusations (unfounded, sure, but with good reason for suspicion) back in 1998. How many of these writers--journalists, supposedly--looked into these rumors at the time? How many of them just went along for the ride, as writing about the home run chase was good ink? And if they didn't find it odd that, say, Luis Gonzalez was cranking 50+ home runs, what the hell kind of journalists are they?
I'm not relieving the players of their guilt for the decision to roid up, but these players had a network of enablers, including the journalists. Some of these people are dispensing justice a little late in the game.
One dick can poke an eye out. A hundred dicks can move mountains.
--Veryzer
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<!--quoteo(post=79187:date=Feb 10 2010, 11:52 AM:name=VanSlawAndCottoCheese)-->QUOTE (VanSlawAndCottoCheese @ Feb 10 2010, 11:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=78982:date=Feb 8 2010, 09:34 PM:name=jstraw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ Feb 8 2010, 09:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->The baseball writers are enforcing a kind of justice because the Hall isn't handing out any more asterisks.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I know this is tangential--and I'm not claiming that you're standing squarely with the baseball writers--but I can't help but feel that in the cases of some of these writers (and probably many of them), their "no" votes is hypocritical for McGwire. Many fans were throwing roids accusations (unfounded, sure, but with good reason for suspicion) back in 1998. How many of these writers--journalists, supposedly--looked into these rumors at the time? How many of them just went along for the ride, as writing about the home run chase was good ink? And if they didn't find it odd that, say, Luis Gonzalez was cranking 50+ home runs, what the hell kind of journalists are they?
I'm not relieving the players of their guilt for the decision to roid up, but these players had a network of enablers, including the journalists. Some of these people are dispensing justice a little late in the game.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh hell...I'm not saying the BBWA isn't generally full of shit. I mean...their ranks include guys that didn't fucking vote for Ricky Henderson on the first ballot.
I'm just saying that writers are going to keep these guys out of the Hall and that this time, hypocrites though they be, they're not wrong.
The big problem for McGwire and Sosa is that the writers can't do this to Bonds and not to them...and a) Bonds fucked over Aaron and Ruth...not just Maris and [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cool.gif[/img] Bonds is a fucking douche. So the standard being applied to him, precludes any mercy for the others.
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The BBWA even having any say in who does and does not make the HOF is the problem.
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<!--quoteo(post=79209:date=Feb 10 2010, 01:50 PM:name=ruby23)-->QUOTE (ruby23 @ Feb 10 2010, 01:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->The BBWA even having any say in who does and does not make the HOF is the problem.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It may be a problem...but in terms of keeping these people out of the Hall, it's not a problem. In fact...in a world where it would otherwise be whatever the hell Bud Selig wanted, it's a solution...it's just not a good enough solution. I don't trust future generations of writers to remember what the fuss is about.
I wish there was sufficient proof to ban the cheaters for life.
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<!--quoteo(post=79211:date=Feb 10 2010, 01:56 PM:name=jstraw)-->QUOTE (jstraw @ Feb 10 2010, 01:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=79209:date=Feb 10 2010, 01:50 PM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ Feb 10 2010, 01:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->The BBWA even having any say in who does and does not make the HOF is the problem.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I wish there was sufficient proof to ban the cheaters for life.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You'd have to start kicking people out then. The steroid era, just like every other era in baseball needs to be compared against itself. The best players of the era deserve to be in there, I don't care if they took PEDs or not. Bonds, Sosa, Clemens, they all belong in the HOF.
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<!--quoteo(post=79229:date=Feb 10 2010, 03:44 PM:name=ruby23)-->QUOTE (ruby23 @ Feb 10 2010, 03:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=79211:date=Feb 10 2010, 01:56 PM:name=jstraw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ Feb 10 2010, 01:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=79209:date=Feb 10 2010, 01:50 PM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ Feb 10 2010, 01:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->The BBWA even having any say in who does and does not make the HOF is the problem.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I wish there was sufficient proof to ban the cheaters for life.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You'd have to start kicking people out then. The steroid era, just like every other era in baseball needs to be compared against itself. The best players of the era deserve to be in there, I don't care if they took PEDs or not. Bonds, Sosa, Clemens, they all belong in the HOF.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That takes unfair advantage of any player that played clean in the same era.
We'll never see eye to eye. You think the belong in the Hall...I think they should be on the island with Pete Rose and Joe Jackson.
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