2010 Minor League Roundup

[BT]

<!--quoteo(post=104246:date=Jul 7 2010, 01:56 AM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ Jul 7 2010, 01:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <!--quotec-->Bob (Tinley Park, IL)
What happened to Josh Vitters...I'm guessing that he dropped off your "best prospects" list due to his lack of plate discipline?

Keith Law
Yes, in a nutshell. His whole approach isn't improving - if anything it's gone backwards. Great swing, potential power, but how's he going to get to it if he shows virtually no discrimination at the plate?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was shocked by this. Shocked!
It's obvious that Keith Law just hates the Cubs.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


KB, if I didn't know any better, I'd swear you are HAPPY when Hendry draft picks do poorly. Are you rooting for Vitters to fail?

[willis]

<!--quoteo(post=104317:date=Jul 7 2010, 11:15 AM:name=jstraw)-->QUOTE (jstraw @ Jul 7 2010, 11:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=104297:date=Jul 7 2010, 10:27 AM:name=Coldneck)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Coldneck @ Jul 7 2010, 10:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Samardzija can eat a bag of dicks. he's got my hopes up again and I just know he's going to be called up later this year and shit the bed all over again. Fuck him.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Worse. He'll get called up and pitch out of his had...and instead of selling him high in the off-season (hah), he'll shit the bed in 2011.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Gotta agree here...I hate Samardzija. He's a one pitch pitcher who just gets dominated by major league hitting. And yet, I guarantee he is shoved down our throat later in the year, only to watch him give up billions of gopher balls and then bitch that he isn't starting.

[jstraw]

<!--quoteo(post=104374:date=Jul 7 2010, 03:23 PM:name=willis)-->QUOTE (willis @ Jul 7 2010, 03:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=104317:date=Jul 7 2010, 11:15 AM:name=jstraw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ Jul 7 2010, 11:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=104297:date=Jul 7 2010, 10:27 AM:name=Coldneck)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Coldneck @ Jul 7 2010, 10:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Samardzija can eat a bag of dicks. he's got my hopes up again and I just know he's going to be called up later this year and shit the bed all over again. Fuck him.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Worse. He'll get called up and pitch out of his had...and instead of selling him high in the off-season (hah), he'll shit the bed in 2011.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Gotta agree here...I hate Samardzija. He's a one pitch pitcher who just gets dominated by major league hitting. And yet, I guarantee he is shoved down our throat later in the year, only to watch him give up billions of gopher balls and then bitch that he isn't starting.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

That he gets shelled is my hope. My fear is that after we sell off...the pressure is gone...the team plays loose...he's got some successful outings and earns himself a roster spot this year. The smart thing to do if he has some good outings is to use that to find a sucker to get him off our hands. He's garbage and all that petulant whining about not starting made me hate him.

[willis]

Exact...the dude has proved nada at the major league level, yet whines like he should be #1 in the rotation. He sucks. Should trade him to the Bears for a decent...um, what do the Bears have? Maybe a LB? Just to kick Zambrano's ass.

[kbwsb]

<!--quoteo(post=104333:date=Jul 7 2010, 12:24 PM:name=BT)-->QUOTE (BT @ Jul 7 2010, 12:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=104246:date=Jul 7 2010, 01:56 AM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ Jul 7 2010, 01:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <!--quotec-->Bob (Tinley Park, IL)
What happened to Josh Vitters...I'm guessing that he dropped off your "best prospects" list due to his <!--sizeo:7--><!--/sizeo-->lack of plate discipline<!--sizec--><!--/sizec-->?

Keith Law
Yes, in a nutshell. His whole approach isn't improving - if anything it's gone backwards. Great swing, potential power, but how's he going to get to it if he shows virtually no discrimination at the plate?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was shocked by this. Shocked!
It's obvious that Keith Law just hates the Cubs.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
KB, if I didn't know any better, I'd swear you are HAPPY when Hendry draft picks do poorly. Are you rooting for Vitters to fail?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What is the biggest flaw in Hendry's approach to evaluating a prospect?

[BT]

<!--quoteo(post=104449:date=Jul 8 2010, 12:13 AM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ Jul 8 2010, 12:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=104333:date=Jul 7 2010, 12:24 PM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Jul 7 2010, 12:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=104246:date=Jul 7 2010, 01:56 AM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ Jul 7 2010, 01:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <!--quotec-->Bob (Tinley Park, IL)
What happened to Josh Vitters...I'm guessing that he dropped off your "best prospects" list due to his <!--sizeo:7--><!--/sizeo-->lack of plate discipline<!--sizec--><!--/sizec-->?

Keith Law
Yes, in a nutshell. His whole approach isn't improving - if anything it's gone backwards. Great swing, potential power, but how's he going to get to it if he shows virtually no discrimination at the plate?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was shocked by this. Shocked!
It's obvious that Keith Law just hates the Cubs.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
KB, if I didn't know any better, I'd swear you are HAPPY when Hendry draft picks do poorly. Are you rooting for Vitters to fail?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What is the biggest flaw in Hendry's approach to evaluating a prospect?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


We could get into a huge back and forth on this, but Vitters was not an especially questionable pick. He was highly regarded by pretty much everyone. I know your big argument was that Hendry should have taken Weiters, but despite the fact you were crowning him as a hall of famer last year, he still kinda sucks. Obviously he might end up being a stud, but as of right now, I'm cool with Soto catching and Vitters working on shit as a 20 year old in AA. I don't know if Vitters is any good, but you seem to reach conclusions on guys like Weiters and Colvin that end up biting you in the ass.

[kbwsb]

<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->-Vitters plate discipline has gotten much better this year. He currently has a .062 IsoP compared to .030 last year. That's actually a pretty decent IsoP.
-Vitters is still only 20 years old and is in AA where many prospects go straight from there to the majors.

I understand if he drops off of his list, but to be specifically critical about his plate discipline when he has dramatically improved it this year is, in a word... shocking.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Scarey, I know you and BT will do and say anything to defend Hendry's honor, but...come on.
You're implying that Vitters will be going "straight from AA to the majors" soon?

These are his numbers in AA ball: .222/.285/.342

To imply that those numbers indicate a quick ticket to Wrigley is crazy. Isolated power doesn't mean jack; those above numbers indicate that he's swinging blindly at everything thrown to him, and very occasionally when he connects, it goes a long way. (although a .342 SLG would suck even in the <i>majors</i>, much less AA).

I don't want him to fail. I want the Cubs to start drafting guys who fucking understand the strike zone. Pretty simple. (see pick #12 in the same draft that Vitters went 4th.)

[kbwsb]

BT is correct, I was pushing for Wieters, not Hayward, whom I'd never heard of.
But shouldn't freaking Wilken and Hendry have heard of him?
(and I think we all know that Wieters has a significantly brighter future than free-swinging Josh).

[Scarey]

<!--quoteo(post=104449:date=Jul 8 2010, 12:13 AM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ Jul 8 2010, 12:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=104333:date=Jul 7 2010, 12:24 PM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Jul 7 2010, 12:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=104246:date=Jul 7 2010, 01:56 AM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ Jul 7 2010, 01:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <!--quotec-->Bob (Tinley Park, IL)
What happened to Josh Vitters...I'm guessing that he dropped off your "best prospects" list due to his <!--sizeo:7--><!--/sizeo-->lack of plate discipline<!--sizec--><!--/sizec-->?

Keith Law
Yes, in a nutshell. His whole approach isn't improving - if anything it's gone backwards. Great swing, potential power, but how's he going to get to it if he shows virtually no discrimination at the plate?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was shocked by this. Shocked!
It's obvious that Keith Law just hates the Cubs.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
KB, if I didn't know any better, I'd swear you are HAPPY when Hendry draft picks do poorly. Are you rooting for Vitters to fail?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What is the biggest flaw in Hendry's approach to evaluating a prospect?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I don't know why you think it's plate discipline or that Hendry is the one making conclusive decisions on draft picks. Wilken has been the main guy since before Vitters was picked and Cubs high profile prospects such as Jackson, Lee, Watkins, Flaherty, Cerda, and Burke have had a .070 IsoD or better throughout their minor league campaigns. I would say there's been a fairly high amount of prospects in the Cubs system are accustomed to taking walks.

[BT]

<!--quoteo(post=104451:date=Jul 8 2010, 12:21 AM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ Jul 8 2010, 12:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <!--quotec-->-Vitters plate discipline has gotten much better this year. He currently has a .062 IsoP compared to .030 last year. That's actually a pretty decent IsoP.
-Vitters is still only 20 years old and is in AA where many prospects go straight from there to the majors.

I understand if he drops off of his list, but to be specifically critical about his plate discipline when he has dramatically improved it this year is, in a word... shocking.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Scarey, I know you and BT will do and say anything to defend Hendry's honor, but...come on.
You're implying that Vitters will be going "straight from AA to the majors" soon?

These are his numbers in AA ball: .222/.285/.342

To imply that those numbers indicate a quick ticket to Wrigley is crazy. Isolated power doesn't mean jack; those above numbers indicate that he's swinging blindly at everything thrown to him, and very occasionally when he connects, it goes a long way. (although a .342 SLG would suck even in the <i>majors</i>, much less AA).

I don't want him to fail. I want the Cubs to start drafting guys who fucking understand the strike zone. Pretty simple. (see pick #12 in the same draft that Vitters went 4th.)
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Wait, now you are arguing that Matt Dominguez is the bee's knees? You entire schtick was built around the fact that Hendry was a brain dead moron for not taking Weiters.

And Scarey was not saying that Vitters numbers have earned him a promotion. He was pointing out that he is a 20 year old in a league where the next promotion traditionally takes you to the major leagues.

[Scarey]

<!--quoteo(post=104451:date=Jul 8 2010, 12:21 AM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ Jul 8 2010, 12:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <!--quotec-->-Vitters plate discipline has gotten much better this year. He currently has a .062 IsoP compared to .030 last year. That's actually a pretty decent IsoP.
-Vitters is still only 20 years old and is in AA where many prospects go straight from there to the majors.

I understand if he drops off of his list, but to be specifically critical about his plate discipline when he has dramatically improved it this year is, in a word... shocking.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Scarey, I know you and BT will do and say anything to defend Hendry's honor, but...come on.
You're implying that Vitters will be going "straight from AA to the majors" soon?

These are his numbers in AA ball: .222/.285/.342

To imply that those numbers indicate a quick ticket to Wrigley is crazy. Isolated power doesn't mean jack; those above numbers indicate that he's swinging blindly at everything thrown to him, and very occasionally when he connects, it goes a long way. (although a .342 SLG would suck even in the <i>majors</i>, much less AA).

I don't want him to fail. I want the Cubs to start drafting guys who fucking understand the strike zone. Pretty simple. (see pick #12 in the same draft that Vitters went 4th.)
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

First of all, I meant IsoD and typed IsoP instead. My bad. Reread my post and it probably makes more sense.

Second of all, NO. I'm NOT implying Vitters will be going straight from AA to the majors. I was explaining that he is in a league where players are elevated straight to the majors meaning he's facing some of the top competition the minor leagues has to offer. Some of that competition isn't very far away from pitching against Major League competition... and he's only 20!

I'd say that speaks a lot to his abilities despite the fact he's struggling. Believe it or not, sometimes players get aggressively promoted, struggle, make adjustments, then produce and continue developing and eventually turn into productive MLB players.

I expect Vitters to be in the minors at LEAST all of 2011 if not beginning the season in 2012 too.

[Scarey]

<!--quoteo(post=104451:date=Jul 8 2010, 12:21 AM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ Jul 8 2010, 12:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Scarey, I know you and BT will do and say anything to defend Hendry's honor, but...come on.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

BTW, any time you or anyone else wants to stop being a douche with these comments is cool with me.

[BT]

<!--quoteo(post=104456:date=Jul 8 2010, 12:33 AM:name=Scarey)-->QUOTE (Scarey @ Jul 8 2010, 12:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=104451:date=Jul 8 2010, 12:21 AM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ Jul 8 2010, 12:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Scarey, I know you and BT will do and say anything to defend Hendry's honor, but...come on.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

BTW, any time you or anyone else wants to stop being a douche with these comments is cool with me.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Don't you get it Scarey? Don't you realize how AWESOME this board would be if we could all just have the same opinion?

[kbwsb]

[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif[/img]
I wasn't trying to be a douche.

1. Scarey was certainly implying that Vitter's plate discipline had improved, and I was merely pointing out that a .250 on-base % isn't exactly a roaring endorsement of said theory.
2. Jason Heyward was drafted 14th that year, not 12th. Scouts (according to an SI article) knew he was sublime, but the reason he fell so low was that he was considered to have too MUCH plate discipline.
3. Perhaps we should err on the side of too much instead of too little, eh?

[Kid]

<b>July 7:</b>


<!--c1-->CODE<!--ec1-->                      R  H  E
Albuquerque (43-41)   1  7  0
Iowa (45-40)          9  16 0
WP: J.R. Mathes (7-5)
LP: Claudio Vargas (1-3)
HR: ALB - Russ Mitchell (11); IOW - Bryan LaHair (9), Darwin Barney (2)

Mathes: GS, 7.0 IP, 1 R, 1 ER (4.30 ERA), 6 H, 0 BB, 2 K; 2-3 (.231), RBI (2), R, K
LaHair: 4-4 (.307), 2B (20), 2 RBI (41), 2 R
James Adduci: 3-5 (.267), 2B (8), 2 RBI (17), 2 R<!--c2--><!--ec2-->


<!--c1-->CODE<!--ec1-->                     R  H  E
Tennessee (8-8)      0  3  2
Jacksonville (8-8)   2  5  0
WP: Elih Villanueva (9-4)
LP: Christopher Archer (1-1)

Archer: GS, 6.1 IP, 1 R, 0 ER (0.00 ERA), 4 H, 5 BB, 4 K, WP, HBP; 1-2 (.500), K
Marcos Mateo: 1.2 IP, 1 R, 1 ER (1.80 ERA), 1 H, 0 BB, 2 K
Brett Jackson: 1-4 (.341), K<!--c2--><!--ec2-->


<!--c1-->CODE<!--ec1-->                R  H  E
Tampa (9-2)     5  9  0
Daytona (8-4)   1  5  1
WP: Dellin Betances (4-0)
LP: Dae-Eun Rhee (2-8)
SV: Adam Olbrychowski (1)
HR: TAM - Melky Mesa (8)

Rhee: GS, 5.2 IP, 4 R, 4 ER (4.64 ERA), 5 H, 3 BB, 5 K, WP, BK, HBP
James Leverton: 1.1 IP, 0 R, 0 ER (2.89 ERA), 0 H, 1 BB, 1 K
David Macias: 2-4 (.237), 2B (6), R<!--c2--><!--ec2-->


<!--c1-->CODE<!--ec1-->Game played at Wrigley Field

                    R  H  E
Kane County (6-7)   2  6  1  
Peoria (4-8)        5  9  0
WP: Robert Whitenack (7-6)
LP: Ian Krol (6-3)
SV: Jordan Latham (11)
HR: PEO - Jae-Hoon Ha (3)

Whitenack: GS, 5.0 IP, 1 R, 1 ER (5.69 ERA), 4 H, 2 BB, 4 K, WP
D.J. Fitzgerald: 2-4 (.285), RBI (26), R
Logan Watkins: 2-4 (.250), R, SB (12)<!--c2--><!--ec2-->


<!--c1-->CODE<!--ec1-->                 R  H  E
Brewers (10-4)   2  6  0
Cubs (7-6)       8  6  2
WP: Casey Lambert (1-0)
LP: Brooks Hall (0-1)
SV: Dustin Fitzgerald (1)
HR: CHC - Xavier Batista (1)

Eduardo Figueroa: GS, 4.0 IP, 2 R, 1 ER (2.25 ERA), 3 H, 0 BB, 3 K, 2 HBP
Fitzgerald: 3.0 IP, 0 R, 0 ER (0.00 ERA), 1 H, 0 BB, 4 K
Albert Hernandez: 1-2 (.077), RBI (2), R, 2 BB<!--c2--><!--ec2-->


<!--c1-->CODE<!--ec1-->                    R  H  E
Orioles 1 (11-21)   2  6  1
Cubs 1 (23-9)       3  10 2
WP: Carlos Galvez (1-1)
LP: Yorky Rojas (0-2)
HR: CHC - Oliver Zapata (4)

Willengton Cruz: GS, 4.0 IP, 1 R, 0 ER (2.70 ERA), 2 H, 1 BB, 6 K
Felix Pena: 4.0 IP, 0 R, 0 ER (1.50 ERA), 2 H, 0 BB, 3 K
Zapata: 3-5 (.267), RBI (20), R, CS (7)<!--c2--><!--ec2-->

<!--c1-->CODE<!--ec1-->                    R  H  E
Cubs 2 (7-25)       5  7  1
Orioles 2 (13-18)   1  5  1
WP: Enyelberth Pena (1-4)
LP: Janser Severino (0-5)

Javier Castro: GS, 3.0 IP, 1 R, 1 ER (1.88 ERA), 2 H, 3 BB, 4 K
Pena: 6.0 IP, 0 R, 0 ER (4.85 ERA), 3 H, 2 BB, 4 K, WP
Gregori Gonzalez: 2-3 (.298), 2B (5), RBI (11), R, CS (4), PO<!--c2--><!--ec2-->