Hendry and middle relievers

[Coach]

Awesome

[Coach]

<!--quoteo(post=89747:date=Apr 15 2010, 09:47 PM:name=FlyAtTheThigh)-->QUOTE (FlyAtTheThigh @ Apr 15 2010, 09:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Didn't Cashner start a lot of games at TCU? Before his senior year?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Of course he did:
http://vineline.mlblogs.com/archives/2008/...rew_cashne.html
<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->Down on the Farm: Andrew Cashner

This isn't the first time Andrew Cashner has been drafted, but it appears to be the last. The 19th overall pick has been drafted four times. First in 2005 out of high school by the Braves, then in 2006 by the Rockies, next in 2007 by the Cubs and then, finally, again by Chicago yesterday.

"It has been a long process," Cashner said. "I've come a long way since high school, and I think this year is finally the first year I have grown into my body and matured in a baseball standpoint....I left high school at 5-9, and I left TCU at 6-6, 190 pounds so I have come a long way."

Cashner has made tremendous strides physically in the past year, putting on weight and developing a 98-mph fastball and mid-80s power curve that has helped his stock rise from a 29th-round pick last year to a first-round pick 12 months later. The flame thrower attributes his success to a new diet and workout plan that awaited him after he transferred to Texas Christian University in the fall.

"[TCU] put me on a meal plan and a nutrition plan, and I sat down with our nutritionist and gained some weight. Then the strength coach helped me out a lot, and I put on a lot of muscle and got a lot stronger this year."

<b>Bigger and stronger, Cashner has electric stuff, but it didn't fully translate into production until Cashner was made TCU's closer after being a lifetime starter. TCU head coach Jim Schlossnagle made the decision because of the lack of depth in the Horned Frogs bullpen.

At first, the move worried Cashner.

"To be frank, [Cashner] wasn't so sure," Schlossnagle said. "Most starting pitchers...feel that the pen is a demotion. We tried to convince him that if he can be really good at this, the elite college closers have done really well in the draft, and if they stay in the bullpen, they move to the big leagues real quick."</b>

It only took one outing for Cashner to be convinced.

"In his very first opportunity against Cal State Fullerton in our second game of the season...he was 97-99 [mph] and needless to say he bought in pretty quick."

So far Schlossnagle has been right. Cashner was the first relief pitcher taken in the draft, and if he continues to grow as a pitcher, the green ivy of Wrigley Field could be on the horizon.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[Ace]

Um, all good pitchers are starters in high school, so saying he was a "lifetime starter" before coming to TCU is kind humorous. I'm fairly certain he was predominantly a closer during his time at TCU, and we know for sure that he was a closer immediately before coming to the Cubs.

[Coach]

<!--quoteo(post=89779:date=Apr 16 2010, 07:53 AM:name=Ace)-->QUOTE (Ace @ Apr 16 2010, 07:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Um, all good pitchers are starters in high school, so saying he was a "lifetime starter" before coming to TCU is kind humorous. I'm fairly certain he was predominantly a closer during his time at TCU, and we know for sure that he was a closer immediately before coming to the Cubs.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He only pitched one year at TCU, where he was moved to the bullpen.
He was a starter at Angelina Junior College before that, where he was drafted twice (once by he Cubs)

[ruby23]

The idea that Cashner hasn't primarily been a starter has no merit, I'm not sure how one could argue that. One year as a collegiate closer does not a reliever make.

[rok]

Whatever the case, I still don't see why calling Cashner up to help out in the pen is the worst thing in the world. Nothing that I've heard or read has convinced me of anything, other than that we need the best arms we can get to stabilize the pen. If it doesn't work out with him, you can always send him back down and resume his development as a SP. What am I missing?

[Scarey]

I just don't understand what makes anyone certain he'll be a shut down reliever right away this year. Also, will it really be that helpful in the grand scheme of things?

You seem to have concerns with Cashner's endurance, right Coach? Doesn't it make sense to find out NOW if he is able to pitch effectively deep into games? Doesn't it make more sense to try and get him ready to take Lilly's spot in the rotation next year and pitch 160-200 innings next year rather than 30-60 innings this year?

Hell, I realize it's no certainty that Cashner turns out to be an ace let alone an adequate starter. But it's no certainty he'll be the Cubs bandaid this year or a fixture in the bullpen going forward. So, if we're rolling the dice, why not roll for higher potential?

And no, I don't think you can have it both ways. Maybe I'm wrong, but if you bring up Cashner right now to pitch out of the bullpen the rest of the year, do you really think he'll be ready to start for the Cubs in 2011?

[rok]

If he pitches well enough to stick with the big club the rest of the year, then you have probably an excellent setup man for this year and next, maybe more. I can't imagine he'd stick around if he pitched mediocre or poorly. And he can always resume his development as a SP in winter ball even if he got sidetracked for more than a month or two.

If this year is squandered because of a bad bullpen, among other things, and our window closes, then replacing Lilly in 2011 will be the least of our worries IMO.

[Coach]

<!--quoteo(post=89789:date=Apr 16 2010, 09:29 AM:name=rok)-->QUOTE (rok @ Apr 16 2010, 09:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->If this year is squandered because of a bad bullpen, among other things, and our window closes, then replacing Lilly in 2011 will be the least of our worries IMO.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

No joke

[Scarey]

<!--quoteo(post=89789:date=Apr 16 2010, 08:29 AM:name=rok)-->QUOTE (rok @ Apr 16 2010, 08:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->If he pitches well enough to stick with the big club the rest of the year, then you have probably an excellent setup man for this year and next, maybe more. I can't imagine he'd stick around if he pitched mediocre or poorly. And he can always resume his development as a SP in winter ball even if he got sidetracked for more than a month or two.

If this year is squandered because of a bad bullpen, among other things, and our window closes, then replacing Lilly in 2011 will be the least of our worries IMO.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Lilly, Lee, Nady, Tracy, and Samardzija will all be free agents next year, we're clearing 32 million off the books. That probably gives us about 24 million to work with assuming arbitration increases and salary raises. Aramis does have a player option and if he opts for free agency, we free up another 16 million. Let's just hope and assume he sticks around.

The Cubs have 24 million to work with. They're able to take on a large salary player especially considering they're going to be shedding 36.5 million in 2012 (Fukudome, Silva, Grabow) and 54.5 million in 2013 (Aramis, Zambrano, Dempster, Byrd). I'm not saying all of these guys won't be resigned or anything, but there's going to be some flexibility in the near future with payroll.

The point is, they have options, and if they can get a cheap guy like Cashner to produce in the rotation, that's more money they can use on filling in the hole that Derrek Lee leaves. If we had a viable first base option (maybe Nady) going forward, I wouldn't be as worried about getting prospects to produce for the rotation. First base is a black hole right now in the minor league system and the only guy that projects for enough power to play there is Vitters who is not going to be ready in 2011. That means we're going to have to pay a shit ton of money on a first baseman either in 2011 or 2012.

[Scarey]

<!--quoteo(post=89790:date=Apr 16 2010, 08:48 AM:name=Coach)-->QUOTE (Coach @ Apr 16 2010, 08:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=89789:date=Apr 16 2010, 09:29 AM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ Apr 16 2010, 09:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->If this year is squandered because of a bad bullpen, among other things, and our window closes, then replacing Lilly in 2011 will be the least of our worries IMO.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

No joke
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

So are we all just going to crawl into a hole for a couple of years after 2010?

[ColoradoCub]

<!--quoteo(post=89789:date=Apr 16 2010, 07:29 AM:name=rok)-->QUOTE (rok @ Apr 16 2010, 07:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->If he pitches well enough to stick with the big club the rest of the year, then you have probably an excellent setup man for this year and next, maybe more. I can't imagine he'd stick around if he pitched mediocre or poorly. And he can always resume his development as a SP in winter ball even if he got sidetracked for more than a month or two.

If this year is squandered because of a bad bullpen, among other things, and our window closes, then replacing Lilly in 2011 will be the least of our worries IMO.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

bingo. I loves me some rok.

[jstraw]

<!--quoteo(post=89804:date=Apr 16 2010, 09:45 AM:name=ColoradoCub)-->QUOTE (ColoradoCub @ Apr 16 2010, 09:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=89789:date=Apr 16 2010, 07:29 AM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ Apr 16 2010, 07:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->If he pitches well enough to stick with the big club the rest of the year, then you have probably an excellent setup man for this year and next, maybe more. I can't imagine he'd stick around if he pitched mediocre or poorly. And he can always resume his development as a SP in winter ball even if he got sidetracked for more than a month or two.

If this year is squandered because of a bad bullpen, among other things, and our window closes, then replacing Lilly in 2011 will be the least of our worries IMO.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

bingo. I loves me some rok.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Yes. And the writing is on the wall, there are some meatsacks in the pen that really have to fucking go. I'm almost hating Smudge already, like I was hating Gregg last year. He cannot fucking pitch. I absolutely do not care how much he's paid.

[Scarey]

<!--quoteo(post=89805:date=Apr 16 2010, 09:49 AM:name=jstraw)-->QUOTE (jstraw @ Apr 16 2010, 09:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=89804:date=Apr 16 2010, 09:45 AM:name=ColoradoCub)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ColoradoCub @ Apr 16 2010, 09:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=89789:date=Apr 16 2010, 07:29 AM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ Apr 16 2010, 07:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->If he pitches well enough to stick with the big club the rest of the year, then you have probably an excellent setup man for this year and next, maybe more. I can't imagine he'd stick around if he pitched mediocre or poorly. And he can always resume his development as a SP in winter ball even if he got sidetracked for more than a month or two.

If this year is squandered because of a bad bullpen, among other things, and our window closes, then replacing Lilly in 2011 will be the least of our worries IMO.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

bingo. I loves me some rok.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Yes. And the writing is on the wall, there are some meatsacks in the pen that really have to fucking go. I'm almost hating Smudge already, like I was hating Gregg last year. He cannot fucking pitch. I absolutely do not care how much he's paid.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

That's fine. I want Samardzija out as much as anyone. But Cashner doesn't have to be the guy to take his spot.

[Coach]

Yeah, let's dont use the possible best man available.