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<!--quoteo(post=88036:date=Apr 11 2010, 02:01 AM:name=BT)-->QUOTE (BT @ Apr 11 2010, 02:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Just so I have this straight:
-Hendry is an idiot for signing a veteran like Grabow to a contract that is fairly consistent with the market for veteran left handers, because it's stupid to overpay for veterans.
-Hendry is also an idiot for NOT signing enough veterans, so we are stuck depending on our rookie relievers.
-Hendry is also an idiot for not signing a guy who couldn't make the freaking METS bullpen, and is currently toiling in the minors.
So don't sign veterans, don't rely on rookies, and for God's sake, the answer to our bullpen problems clearly resides on the Mets AAA roster.
Got it.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
For me personally, only number two applies. I hate the idea of going into the year with so many kids in bullpen. I didn't really have a problem with the Grabow deal, I just wish he would have added another veteran or two, and calero seemed like a good decision, especially since no one else wanted him.
Wang.
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<!--quoteo(post=88037:date=Apr 11 2010, 03:59 AM:name=Fella)-->QUOTE (Fella @ Apr 11 2010, 03:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I don't think its spending money on relievers that is the problem but spending money on some mediocre ones. That's not to say he hasn't made some good bullpen signings and some good bullpen trades too.
I think at the time both the Howry and Hawkins deals were very good. They were both very good for us even, until they imploded in their last years, but I can't blame Hendry for that. They both had good career numbers and they produced at first. I also think Hendry did a good job putting the pen together last year, considering what he had to deal with. Gregg and Heilman both ended up failing, but Hendry got them in cheap trades and they both had solid track records. I don't think you can blame him for them sucking either.
The Eyre and Grabow signings are both kinda head-scratchers to me, considering they both have been fairly mediocre in their careers but got big contracts anyway. I know they are lefties, and I'm sure that's why they got the money they did but either way they are bad deals.
I also think its just a vocal minority here that hates spending any money on the bullpen. I think its necessary in today's game to spend some money on a couple guys at the end of the game. I definitely don't mind filling the last spot or two with a young guy every year, but I'm afraid we are gonna learn real fast you can't fill 3/4ths of the pen with them and succeed.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Fella gets it
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Once Samardzija and Berg are sent down for Parker and Cashner, the pen will work itself out just fine. Also, I personally don't think you can have such a dramatic turnover in your bullpen and expect to be automatically lights out from game one. There's an adjustment period. Lou will learn how to pitch these guys and I have confidence that the young pitchers will find their groove.
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<!--quoteo(post=88171:date=Apr 11 2010, 05:56 PM:name=Scarey)-->QUOTE (Scarey @ Apr 11 2010, 05:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Once Samardzija and Berg are sent down for Parker and Cashner, the pen will work itself out just fine. Also, I personally don't think you can have such a dramatic turnover in your bullpen and expect to be automatically lights out from game one. There's an adjustment period. Lou will learn how to pitch these guys and I have confidence that the young pitchers will find their groove.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ruby.gif[/img]
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I just refuse to believe that we don't have 4 guys in our system who can pitch in middle relief.
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<!--quoteo(post=88174:date=Apr 11 2010, 06:29 PM:name=FlyAtTheThigh)-->QUOTE (FlyAtTheThigh @ Apr 11 2010, 06:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I just refuse to believe that we don't have 4 guys in our system who can pitch in middle relief.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree - but then again, what if some of those guys are Caridad, Berg, and Samardzija, and they are just having their rough stretch now?
It's hard to figure out, during the season, that these are the guys who can do it.
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<!--quoteo(post=88175:date=Apr 11 2010, 06:39 PM:name=Ace)-->QUOTE (Ace @ Apr 11 2010, 06:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=88174:date=Apr 11 2010, 06:29 PM:name=FlyAtTheThigh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FlyAtTheThigh @ Apr 11 2010, 06:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I just refuse to believe that we don't have 4 guys in our system who can pitch in middle relief.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree - but then again, what if some of those guys are Caridad, Berg, and Samardzija, and they are just having their rough stretch now?
It's hard to figure out, during the season, that these are the guys who can do it.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As to Caridad and Berg, maybe they are two of the guys. I'm not for cutting bait on them just yet. I thought it was especially stupid to bring Caridad into a bases loaded game today after what happened on Friday, but it just happened that way.
Samadzija is junk and has been junk since day one.
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<!--quoteo(post=88174:date=Apr 11 2010, 04:29 PM:name=FlyAtTheThigh)-->QUOTE (FlyAtTheThigh @ Apr 11 2010, 04:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I just refuse to believe that we don't have 4 guys in our system who can pitch in middle relief.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm sure we do, but it if you take all season to find that out, you're fucked. The current relievers we have right now are not anywhere close to good enough to contend for a championship. That's the bottom line.
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<!--quoteo(post=88175:date=Apr 11 2010, 04:39 PM:name=Ace)-->QUOTE (Ace @ Apr 11 2010, 04:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=88174:date=Apr 11 2010, 06:29 PM:name=FlyAtTheThigh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FlyAtTheThigh @ Apr 11 2010, 06:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I just refuse to believe that we don't have 4 guys in our system who can pitch in middle relief.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree - but then again, what if some of those guys are Caridad, Berg, and Samardzija, and they are just having their rough stretch now?
It's hard to figure out, during the season, that these are the guys who can do it.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Any scout can tell you Samardzija is not a part of that group. And Caridad and Berg dominated last September in meaningless games. Now they're pitching in big situations in hostile environments on the road, and sure enough they've sucked. Some guys can't handle it. I'm not saying for sure that's the case with them, but it was something I was very concerned about coming in, and even more concerned after witnessing them suck in the first week.
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<!--quoteo(post=88171:date=Apr 11 2010, 03:56 PM:name=Scarey)-->QUOTE (Scarey @ Apr 11 2010, 03:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><b>Once Samardzija and Berg are sent down for Parker and Cashner, the pen will work itself out just fine.</b> Also, I personally don't think you can have such a dramatic turnover in your bullpen and expect to be automatically lights out from game one. There's an adjustment period. Lou will learn how to pitch these guys and I have confidence that the young pitchers will find their groove.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You have absolutely no idea if either Parker or Cashner will be effective. I'm not saying they don't -appear- to be better options, but they could each suck, and big time. There's no completely obvious in-house solutions with the pen.
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<!--quoteo(post=88190:date=Apr 11 2010, 07:19 PM:name=Clapp)-->QUOTE (Clapp @ Apr 11 2010, 07:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=88171:date=Apr 11 2010, 03:56 PM:name=Scarey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Apr 11 2010, 03:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><b>Once Samardzija and Berg are sent down for Parker and Cashner, the pen will work itself out just fine.</b> Also, I personally don't think you can have such a dramatic turnover in your bullpen and expect to be automatically lights out from game one. There's an adjustment period. Lou will learn how to pitch these guys and I have confidence that the young pitchers will find their groove.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You have absolutely no idea if either Parker or Cashner will be effective. I'm not saying they don't -appear- to be better options, but they could each suck, and big time. There's no completely obvious in-house solutions with the pen.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't know what your point is here. It's a prediction, it's not as if I'm saying I know better than Lou, Hendry, Rothschild, etc.
I personally believe that Berg and Samardzija shouldn't be in the pen. Berg had a pretty ERA last year, but his peripherals were very mediocre. The only reason Samardzija is in the pen is because he lost out to Silva and Gorzelanny for a rotation spot. I have more faith in Parker and Cashner because of their pedigree and their results in the minors. They both happen to be in a good position to jump up from the minors too.
When it all boils down to it though, my prediction isn't anything more than Joe Blow from such-and-such blog predicting the Braves will win the NL East, and I never meant it to be anything more than that.
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I haven't read through this whole thread, so I apologize for what will surely be something that has already been pointed out.
But are we at least acknowledging the fact that Grabow (our one "proven" veteran" in the pen) has been as shitty as anyone else?
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<!--quoteo(post=88042:date=Apr 11 2010, 08:05 AM:name=Ace)-->QUOTE (Ace @ Apr 11 2010, 08:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=88036:date=Apr 11 2010, 03:01 AM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Apr 11 2010, 03:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Just so I have this straight:
-Hendry is an idiot for signing a veteran like Grabow to a contract that is fairly consistent with the market for veteran left handers, because it's stupid to overpay for veterans.
-Hendry is also an idiot for NOT signing enough veterans, so we are stuck depending on our rookie relievers.
-Hendry is also an idiot for not signing a guy who couldn't make the freaking METS bullpen, and is currently toiling in the minors.
So don't sign veterans, don't rely on rookies, and for God's sake, the answer to our bullpen problems clearly resides on the Mets AAA roster.
Got it.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's just the first two. And for the first one, no one else believes Grabow's contract is consistent with what he would have gotten on the open market this season.
Those are the reasons, among others unrelated to the bullpen, Hendry is an idiot.
Got it?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Since I am the ONLY person in the world that thinks Grabow's contract was pretty consistent to what others were getting this off season, what do you think Grabow would get on the open market? Bear in mind Latroy Hawkins got 7.5 million for 2 years, Rafael Betancourt got 7.5 million for 2 years, and Brandon Lyon got 15 million for 3 years. They are all right handed, and left handers tend to get bigger contracts. How does Grabow's contract NOT fit into that market?
does that make the Grabow signing a good one? No, but people on this board act like the pulled a guy out of the Taco Bell drive thru and handed him 7.5 million dollars.
In truth, I would rather we didn't spend a lot of money on middle relief. However, I also understand that if you decide to go the "fill the slots from your minor leagues" route, that the end result could easily be what we've seen so far. That's the risk.
I wish that I believed in Fate. I wish I didn't sleep so late. I used to be carried in the arms of cheerleaders.
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There's nothing wrong with the contract Grabow got.
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<!--quoteo(post=88205:date=Apr 11 2010, 09:09 PM:name=BT)-->QUOTE (BT @ Apr 11 2010, 09:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=88042:date=Apr 11 2010, 08:05 AM:name=Ace)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ace @ Apr 11 2010, 08:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=88036:date=Apr 11 2010, 03:01 AM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Apr 11 2010, 03:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Just so I have this straight:
-Hendry is an idiot for signing a veteran like Grabow to a contract that is fairly consistent with the market for veteran left handers, because it's stupid to overpay for veterans.
-Hendry is also an idiot for NOT signing enough veterans, so we are stuck depending on our rookie relievers.
-Hendry is also an idiot for not signing a guy who couldn't make the freaking METS bullpen, and is currently toiling in the minors.
So don't sign veterans, don't rely on rookies, and for God's sake, the answer to our bullpen problems clearly resides on the Mets AAA roster.
Got it.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's just the first two. And for the first one, no one else believes Grabow's contract is consistent with what he would have gotten on the open market this season.
Those are the reasons, among others unrelated to the bullpen, Hendry is an idiot.
Got it?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Since I am the ONLY person in the world that thinks Grabow's contract was pretty consistent to what others were getting this off season, what do you think Grabow would get on the open market? Bear in mind Latroy Hawkins got 7.5 million for 2 years, Rafael Betancourt got 7.5 million for 2 years, and Brandon Lyon got 15 million for 3 years. They are all right handed, and left handers tend to get bigger contracts. How does Grabow's contract NOT fit into that market?
does that make the Grabow signing a good one? No, but people on this board act like the pulled a guy out of the Taco Bell drive thru and handed him 7.5 million dollars.
In truth, I would rather we didn't spend a lot of money on middle relief. However, I also understand that if you decide to go the "fill the slots from your minor leagues" route, that the end result could easily be what we've seen so far. That's the risk.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I had no problem with the contract either...
Neither does Ace...he's just campaigning.
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