Zambrano

[ruby23]

Also, if Lee's back is so bad, sit him the fuck down for awhile.

[MrSheps]

<!--quoteo(post=103176:date=Jun 26 2010, 08:05 PM:name=ruby23)-->QUOTE (ruby23 @ Jun 26 2010, 08:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=103174:date=Jun 26 2010, 09:56 PM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ Jun 26 2010, 09:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Yeah, right.

Nothing to see here. Nothing at all.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There was no fight. Zambrano was yelling and stomping around like a maniac. Lee was being a pussy bitch. Lou was walking around like a drunken buffoon. Nothing physical.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How was Lee being a pussy bitch? That makes no sense.

[ruby23]

<!--quoteo(post=103181:date=Jun 26 2010, 10:11 PM:name=MrSheps)-->QUOTE (MrSheps @ Jun 26 2010, 10:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=103176:date=Jun 26 2010, 08:05 PM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ Jun 26 2010, 08:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=103174:date=Jun 26 2010, 09:56 PM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ Jun 26 2010, 09:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Yeah, right.

Nothing to see here. Nothing at all.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There was no fight. Zambrano was yelling and stomping around like a maniac. Lee was being a pussy bitch. Lou was walking around like a drunken buffoon. Nothing physical.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How was Lee being a pussy bitch? That makes no sense.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He's a complacent fucking drone. He's supposed to be a leader, but instead of trying to calm down Z, he picks that moment to speak up and say something. He doesn't do anything remotely leadershippy all year long, then at probably the worst fucking moment to possibly say something, he does. He's a fucking puppet.

[Coach]

Maybe Lee was being a leader and stepping up to Zambrano's whiny, bitchy, me-first attitude.

[MrSheps]

<!--quoteo(post=103183:date=Jun 26 2010, 08:17 PM:name=ruby23)-->QUOTE (ruby23 @ Jun 26 2010, 08:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=103181:date=Jun 26 2010, 10:11 PM:name=MrSheps)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MrSheps @ Jun 26 2010, 10:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=103176:date=Jun 26 2010, 08:05 PM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ Jun 26 2010, 08:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=103174:date=Jun 26 2010, 09:56 PM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ Jun 26 2010, 09:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Yeah, right.

Nothing to see here. Nothing at all.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There was no fight. Zambrano was yelling and stomping around like a maniac. Lee was being a pussy bitch. Lou was walking around like a drunken buffoon. Nothing physical.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How was Lee being a pussy bitch? That makes no sense.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He's a complacent fucking drone. He's supposed to be a leader, but instead of trying to calm down Z, he picks that moment to speak up and say something. He doesn't do anything remotely leadershippy all year long, then at probably the worst fucking moment to possibly say something, he does. He's a fucking puppet.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So he's a pussy for telling Z that what he was saying/doing was bullshit? I guess you're right that it would have been better to try and calm him down rather than tell him to fuck off, but I don't know if "pussy bitch" is the right term for telling a gigantic, crazed, manchild to shut up.

I think Lee has shown emotion over the years including this year. He shows more emotion when the team gets out of a tough spot defensively than anyone else, he's always going over to calm down the pitchers. He argues as much with the umps as anyone, gets pissed at himself when he strikes out and tosses the bat... The team is just sucking, but it can't possible be that first Soriano and then Aram and now Lee all just don't give a fuck and are lazy and don't care. Ryno never showed emotion, neither did Maddux, it's just not part of every guy's game to be overtly rah-rah. But it doesn't mean a guy doesn't give a shit. I think that's usually something that is in the mind of the fans more than it is reality.

[BackyardLegend]

<!--quoteo(post=103154:date=Jun 26 2010, 09:01 PM:name=rok)-->QUOTE (rok @ Jun 26 2010, 09:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->If Z goes back the pen, this organization has given me the final proof that it has no idea how to run a team.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
ESPN LINK

Looks like the proof is in the pudding for you...

<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->CHICAGO -- Cubs pitcher Carlos Zambrano will return to the bullpen following his suspension for Friday's tirade at U.S. Cellular Field.

Tom Gorzelanny will return to the starting rotation.

"[Zambrano's stay in the bullpen] is not short term, that's for sure," Cubs manager Lou Piniella said before Saturday's game against the Chicago White Sox. "We don't know how long [the suspension] will be. I guess it will be cleared up the following week."<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[jstraw]

Methinks Z will waive a no-trade clause. Could that be the point of this?

[Kid]

<!--quoteo(post=103229:date=Jun 27 2010, 11:03 AM:name=jstraw)-->QUOTE (jstraw @ Jun 27 2010, 11:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Methinks Z will waive a no-trade clause. Could that be the point of this?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's what I was thinking.

[Ace]

<!--quoteo(post=103231:date=Jun 27 2010, 11:24 AM:name=Kid)-->QUOTE (Kid @ Jun 27 2010, 11:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=103229:date=Jun 27 2010, 11:03 AM:name=jstraw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ Jun 27 2010, 11:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Methinks Z will waive a no-trade clause. Could that be the point of this?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's what I was thinking.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

But what team would want him, even at an extremely reduced price? The Sox?

[Kid]

<!--quoteo(post=103232:date=Jun 27 2010, 11:25 AM:name=Ace)-->QUOTE (Ace @ Jun 27 2010, 11:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=103231:date=Jun 27 2010, 11:24 AM:name=Kid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid @ Jun 27 2010, 11:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=103229:date=Jun 27 2010, 11:03 AM:name=jstraw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ Jun 27 2010, 11:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Methinks Z will waive a no-trade clause. Could that be the point of this?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's what I was thinking.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

But what team would want him, even at an extremely reduced price? The Sox?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
At a reduced price, somebody would definitely take him. Alternatively, he could be traded for another bad contract ala Silva.

[Ace]

<!--quoteo(post=103233:date=Jun 27 2010, 11:26 AM:name=Kid)-->QUOTE (Kid @ Jun 27 2010, 11:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=103232:date=Jun 27 2010, 11:25 AM:name=Ace)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ace @ Jun 27 2010, 11:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=103231:date=Jun 27 2010, 11:24 AM:name=Kid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid @ Jun 27 2010, 11:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=103229:date=Jun 27 2010, 11:03 AM:name=jstraw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ Jun 27 2010, 11:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Methinks Z will waive a no-trade clause. Could that be the point of this?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's what I was thinking.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

But what team would want him, even at an extremely reduced price? The Sox?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
At a reduced price, somebody would definitely take him. Alternatively, he could be traded for another bad contract ala Silva.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

If I'm another team, I'd consider taking him for *nothing.* But that's about it.

[Clapp]

If Z wasn't throwing an 89 mph fastball on the reg, we wouldn't have a single problem trading him. Teams would take a chance with his temper, just like a shitload of teams have with Milton Bradley.

Zambrano's just 29, had an ERA under 4 in each of the last 8 seasons, had at least 13 wins in 6 of those, and threw over 200 innings in 6 of those. Up until this year, he's been arguably the most reliable, consistent pitcher in the entire National league since 2003.

But his fastball velocity is significantly down from last year. He's throwing meatballs up there. Maybe the only time I've seen him throw 93-94 was when he was pissed off in the rest of the 1st inning after the Quentin home run. He's either been hurt all year or not trying.

Look at his batting average allowed since 2002:

02- .235
03- .239
04- .225
05- .212
06- .208
07- .233
08- .241
09- .246

This year- .303

He's allowing a .447 slugging % this year. In the years I just listed, his previous worst was .372.

Unless some team's scout is noticing a mechanical flaw that could be fixed, or think it's just a matter of motivation/effort, they're not going to advise for their GM to take a chance on him.

[offcolorpoetry]

The Cubs should pay as much of Zambrano's contract as needed to dump him.

[Fly]

<!--quoteo(post=103271:date=Jun 27 2010, 05:53 PM:name=Clapp)-->QUOTE (Clapp @ Jun 27 2010, 05:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->If Z wasn't throwing an 89 mph fastball on the reg, we wouldn't have a single problem trading him. Teams would take a chance with his temper, just like a shitload of teams have with Milton Bradley.

Zambrano's just 29, had an ERA under 4 in each of the last 8 seasons, had at least 13 wins in 6 of those, and threw over 200 innings in 6 of those. Up until this year, he's been arguably the most reliable, consistent pitcher in the entire National league since 2003.

But his fastball velocity is significantly down from last year. He's throwing meatballs up there. Maybe the only time I've seen him throw 93-94 was when he was pissed off in the rest of the 1st inning after the Quentin home run. He's either been hurt all year or not trying.

Look at his batting average allowed since 2002:

02- .235
03- .239
04- .225
05- .212
06- .208
07- .233
08- .241
09- .246

This year- .303

He's allowing a .447 slugging % last year. In the years I just listed, his previous worst was .372.

Unless some team's scout is noticing a mechanical flaw that could be fixed, or think it's just a matter of motivation/effort, they're not going to advise for their GM to take a chance on him.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I'm worried that early abuse may have finally caught up with him. It's been a concern for a long time...or maybe he's just fighting through a minor injury. Whatever the case, he's not the ace he was 4 years ago and he's certainly not good enough now to merit putting up with the sort of bullshit he pulled on Friday.

[ruby23]

<!--quoteo(post=103273:date=Jun 27 2010, 05:21 PM:name=Gracie)-->QUOTE (Gracie @ Jun 27 2010, 05:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->The Cubs should pay as much of Zambrano's contract as needed to dump him.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No they shouldn't. They should put Wells in the bullpen and leave Zambrano in the rotation. Then, I dunno, maybe let him try to figure his shit out. Of course he's had problems and velocity issues, he hasn't been given a fair shake all year and hasn't had a consistent routine to get ready. Hendry and Lou are fucking dolts.