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I'm actually inclined to give Hoyer a pass on his radio comments. The love fest for Rizzo, Bryant and Javy is all well deserved, but I get why Jed wants to tamp down the Cubs did them wrong narrative a little. If you look at the reported extension offers that were out there, they weren't ALL awful. Team friendly, sure, but there has been lots of talk of the Cubs trying to extend all three over the years. The market keeps changing, but the general trend towards younger players and avoiding paying for past performance likely plays into what's going to happen to all three this off-season. If Javy gets a Lindor type deal I'd be surprised, and I wouldn't have wanted the Cubs to be the ones to do it. If he wants to get close to that, he should have figured out how to stop striking out like a complete asshat so often. (Still love him though.)
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People would have been mad at him had they paid them a ton and their production declined. That's just how it is.
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And then we'd be talking about how dumb Hoyer was for not letting go when they still had peak value for the next 5 years. This is all just part of being a fan. The higher-ups are never right.
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Trading all of those guys was absolutely the right move. Letting them finish out this season in 3rd or 4th place would've been a huge mistake. Here's where I think it could've been handled better:
- They should've maximized the competitive window better while it was open. I think 2017 was almost inevitable to some degree; the post-celebration season was bound to be somewhat of a downer. But they won the division again and beat a tough Nationals team in the NLDS. They were just out of gas after that series. If they threw more resources into 2018 and 2019, I think there was another deep playoff run in there. But they recognized that there was an issue with the offense and then did jack shit to address it.
- I've expressed my disappointment with the Kimbrel trade already so I won't beat that dead horse. But it also seems like the returns on Bryant were pretty weak. It's too soon to tell with these prospects, obviously, so we'll see how it shakes out.
- It was such an unceremonious exit. I'll never understand why RIzzo and Bryant sat in the dugout during their last game at Wrigley. But even beyond that -- everyone knew these guys were going to go; that was etched in stone as soon as Darvish got traded. Not that there had to be some grand farewell tour, but sheesh. They did nothing to acknowledge their contributions at all. The farewell videos posted on social media for the players *after* they were traded was something, I guess. But still pretty weak sauce.
So maybe my frustration is more with the Ricketts than with Hoyer/Ross. We were sold a bill of goods with these guys. About the constant player development. About reinvesting everything back into the product on the field. About the new "Cubs Way." And maybe some of that was bad luck, but the for the Ricketts to ever cry poor is such a bad look. They own the entire fucking neighborhood around Wrigley now. They own their own network. And, yes, they/we will always have 2016...but there will always be a lingering "what if." What if they really went all in during the years after 2016?
Whatever. I'll be looking forward to the Next Great Cubs Team sometime in the next 4-5 years, I guess.
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I'm with you, I definitely don't disagree that the Ricketts family sucks. What will really be the proof in the pudding is if he follows through on spending money like he says he's going to now that so much money is off the books. That's why I dont think winning is necessarily that far off, next year's free agent class is pretty stacked. Again, it depends on Tom putting his money where his mouth is.
Disagree with the KB value, Killian was the best pitcher in the Giants system. He could be a stud.
Finally, I'm just shocked at all the vitriol people are showing the FO with these stories coming out about the thinking/mindset. These are the same motherfuckers that were bitching endlessly about the core's consistent feast or famine for the last three years. These people can truly go get fucked; it's funny how all of a sudden they loved the core.
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I read part of the Rizzo transcript from the ESPN interview, and it sounded like at least he asked to be out of the lineup that last game here. Weird, I'll admit, but I don't know the full context, so guessing there is more there. And I have plenty of distrust and hate for the Rickettses, but I can't imagine a scenario where they are happy to put out a AAAA team for the next couple of years, while simultaneously trying to sell Marquee, luxury suites and all the other attractions they own around the ballpark. They're evil, but not stupid, but I guess we'll see how they plan to spend in free agency soon enough.
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Quote:I read part of the Rizzo transcript from the ESPN interview, and it sounded like at least he asked to be out of the lineup that last game here. Weird, I'll admit, but I don't know the full context, so guessing there is more there. And I have plenty of distrust and hate for the Rickettses, but I can't imagine a scenario where they are happy to put out a AAAA team for the next couple of years, while simultaneously trying to sell Marquee, luxury suites and all the other attractions they own around the ballpark. They're evil, but not stupid, but I guess we'll see how they plan to spend in free agency soon enough.
I would argue that they are also stupid (at least some of them -- you've heard Todd speak. And what about Governor Pete -- that guy is a total fucking moron). Having a shit ton of money can make people appear smart -- at least on the surface.
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The core was flawed but have the Cubs thrown the baby out with the bath water? Everyone knew Kimbrel and KB were gone but the cases for Rizzo and Javy appear different. It took years of historic losses to assemble core and the new CBA along with increased valuation of prospects make that path more difficult to repeat. In addition, new CBA might provide greater incentives to hold onto talent rather than trading prospects or established MLB talent. Who knows?
Yes, the Cubs minor league system is much better shape than it was in June but I’m not going to Iowa or South Bend to watch these prospects. Cubs are a major market team with one of top revenues in game and just traded away their best MLB talent which required over a half decade to identify, acquire, and develop - while preaching patience and sustainable success - that’s BS
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Quote:<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="rok" data-cid="359517" data-time="1628096657">
I read part of the Rizzo transcript from the ESPN interview, and it sounded like at least he asked to be out of the lineup that last game here. Weird, I'll admit, but I don't know the full context, so guessing there is more there. And I have plenty of distrust and hate for the Rickettses, but I can't imagine a scenario where they are happy to put out a AAAA team for the next couple of years, while simultaneously trying to sell Marquee, luxury suites and all the other attractions they own around the ballpark. They're evil, but not stupid, but I guess we'll see how they plan to spend in free agency soon enough.
I would argue that they are also stupid (at least some of them -- you've heard Todd speak. And what about Governor Pete -- that guy is a total fucking moron). Having a shit ton of money can make people appear smart -- at least on the surface.</blockquote>
Tom and Laura can at least put full sentences together. I'm not going to argue that any of their family members are card-carrying MENSA members, but they have some business savvy and don't appear to be self-destructive when it comes to protecting their family's assets. We'll see though.
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Quote:The core was flawed but have the Cubs thrown the baby out with the bath water? Everyone knew Kimbrel and KB were gone but the cases for Rizzo and Javy appear different. It took years of historic losses to assemble core and the new CBA along with increased valuation of prospects make that path more difficult to repeat. In addition, new CBA might provide greater incentives to hold onto talent rather than trading prospects or established MLB talent. Who knows?
Yes, the Cubs minor league system is much better shape than it was in June but I’m not going to Iowa or South Bend to watch these prospects. Cubs are a major market team with one of top revenues in game and just traded away their best MLB talent which required over a half decade to identify, acquire, and develop - while preaching patience and sustainable success - that’s BS
A core you constantly complained about, day in and day out.
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Quote:<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="1060Ivy" data-cid="359519" data-time="1628097090">
The core was flawed but have the Cubs thrown the baby out with the bath water? Everyone knew Kimbrel and KB were gone but the cases for Rizzo and Javy appear different. It took years of historic losses to assemble core and the new CBA along with increased valuation of prospects make that path more difficult to repeat. In addition, new CBA might provide greater incentives to hold onto talent rather than trading prospects or established MLB talent. Who knows?
Yes, the Cubs minor league system is much better shape than it was in June but Im not going to Iowa or South Bend to watch these prospects. Cubs are a major market team with one of top revenues in game and just traded away their best MLB talent which required over a half decade to identify, acquire, and develop - while preaching patience and sustainable success - thats BS
A core you constantly complained about, day in and day out.</blockquote>
A core that was flawed but not devoid of talent. It required pruning and critical additions - not an uprooting
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Quote:
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="funkster" data-cid="359521" data-time="1628098342">
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="1060Ivy" data-cid="359519" data-time="1628097090">
The core was flawed but have the Cubs thrown the baby out with the bath water? Everyone knew Kimbrel and KB were gone but the cases for Rizzo and Javy appear different. It took years of historic losses to assemble core and the new CBA along with increased valuation of prospects make that path more difficult to repeat. In addition, new CBA might provide greater incentives to hold onto talent rather than trading prospects or established MLB talent. Who knows?
Yes, the Cubs minor league system is much better shape than it was in June but Im not going to Iowa or South Bend to watch these prospects. Cubs are a major market team with one of top revenues in game and just traded away their best MLB talent which required over a half decade to identify, acquire, and develop - while preaching patience and sustainable success - thats BS
A core you constantly complained about, day in and day out.</blockquote>
A core that was flawed but not devoid of talent. It required pruning and critical additions - not an uprooting
</blockquote>
Which can be better accomplished now with good FA signings around emerging talent.
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Nice. Added bonus is that Heyward now will go back to the bench.
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Hmmm Sullivan tweeting that Brennan Davis has also been spotted..
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