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I'm to the point where I just don't care where he bats, and am tired of it coming up all the time. If he's comfortable there, you don't mess with him. Believe it or not, as bad as he's performed in the postseason, he isn't the main reason why we've sucked in October. And if he ever decides to get hot late in a season again, he could carry a team to a championship. Not saying it will happen, but I just don't see a reason to make a change just for the sake of change, especially since all of the other options for leadoff aren't ideal either.
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<!--quoteo(post=25477:date=Mar 27 2009, 11:29 PM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ Mar 27 2009, 11:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->(btw, Scarey, I really liked your two posts too...you just lost me when you implied that our success hinged upon blind luck and "weird accidents." That's all fine and good, but I've always figured that it's smart to play the percentages.)<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I didn't imply that at all. I was saying that even though Lou put Soriano in the lead off spot because of his speed, he just so happened to get big time production (middle-of-the-lineup type production BTW) out of the lead off spot because our lineup was so good at turning over because of success at the bottom of the order.
Whether Lou knew the bottom of the lineup would bat so well or not I have no idea. That's why I said "<i>maybe</i> in some weird accidental way". But, now that we know the bottom of our order can produce so well, I say keep Soriano in the lead off spot to keep pressure on the pitcher throughout the whole lineup.
Also, I don't know if you intend to do it or you just misconceive things KB, but you have a propensity for twisting people's words on here. The "Cubs success is due to luck?" and "Fell you're calling me an asshole?" statements are just two examples of this. I think this is a huge reason that people get upset with you rather than your perception of baseball as you often seem to state. Just an observation. I'm not pissed at you or anything, but I just wanna try to set the record strait and offer my opinion.
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<!--quoteo(post=25430:date=Mar 27 2009, 05:03 PM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ Mar 27 2009, 05:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Alf ain't Einstein out there either. They're both speedy; their baserunning differences are negligible.
Their power differences are not remotely negligible. They're gigantic.
Alf has cleanup power. Yes, his OBP would indicate being a 6th or 7th-hole hitter, but coupled with his great power, I'd say 5th in the order is just about right.
Quick question: has there ever been a team in the entire history of baseball who batted their best home-run hitter at leadoff? There may have been...I'm just wondering.
Anyone know?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
brian downing for the 79 angels. rick monday for the cubs. the d-backs batted chris young 1st a couple years ago.
Wang.
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Brady Anderson hit leadoff when he hit 50.
"Drink Up and Beat Off!"
-KBWSB
"Will I be looked on poorly if my religion involved punting little people?"
-Jody
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<!--quoteo(post=25571:date=Mar 28 2009, 07:22 PM:name=veryzer)-->QUOTE (veryzer @ Mar 28 2009, 07:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=25430:date=Mar 27 2009, 05:03 PM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ Mar 27 2009, 05:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Alf ain't Einstein out there either. They're both speedy; their baserunning differences are negligible.
Their power differences are not remotely negligible. They're gigantic.
Alf has cleanup power. Yes, his OBP would indicate being a 6th or 7th-hole hitter, but coupled with his great power, I'd say 5th in the order is just about right.
Quick question: has there ever been a team in the entire history of baseball who batted their best home-run hitter at leadoff? There may have been...I'm just wondering.
Anyone know?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
brian downing for the 79 angels. rick monday for the cubs. the d-backs batted chris young 1st a couple years ago.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Didn't Brady Anderson lead off too.
*edit: Thanks savant, apparently I type very slowly.
Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them.
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<!--quoteo(post=25593:date=Mar 28 2009, 11:23 PM:name=Bricklayer)-->QUOTE (Bricklayer @ Mar 28 2009, 11:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=25571:date=Mar 28 2009, 07:22 PM:name=veryzer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (veryzer @ Mar 28 2009, 07:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=25430:date=Mar 27 2009, 05:03 PM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ Mar 27 2009, 05:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Alf ain't Einstein out there either. They're both speedy; their baserunning differences are negligible.
Their power differences are not remotely negligible. They're gigantic.
Alf has cleanup power. Yes, his OBP would indicate being a 6th or 7th-hole hitter, but coupled with his great power, I'd say 5th in the order is just about right.
Quick question: has there ever been a team in the entire history of baseball who batted their best home-run hitter at leadoff? There may have been...I'm just wondering.
Anyone know?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
brian downing for the 79 angels. rick monday for the cubs. the d-backs batted chris young 1st a couple years ago.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Didn't Brady Anderson lead off too.
*edit: Thanks savant, apparently I type very slowly.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you type slower than me, you might be a caveman.
"Drink Up and Beat Off!"
-KBWSB
"Will I be looked on poorly if my religion involved punting little people?"
-Jody
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A herd of buffalo can move only as fast as the slowest buffalo. When the herd is hunted, it is the slowest and weakest ones at the back that are killed first. This natural selection is good for the herd as a whole, because the general speed and health of the whole group keeps improving by the regular killing of the weakest members.
In much the same way the human brain can only operate as fast as the slowest brain cells. Excessive intake of alcohol, we all know, kills brain cells, but naturally it attacks the slowest and weakest brain cells first. In this way regular consumption of beer eliminates the weaker brain cells, making the brain a faster and more efficient machine. That's why you always feel smarter after a few beers.
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Yea, I think Bz is right on the money here.
If Angelo had picked McClellin, I would have been expecting to hear by training camp that kid has stage 4 cancer, is actually 5'2" 142 lbs, is a chick who played in a 7 - 0 defensive scheme who only rotated in on downs which were 3 and 34 yds + so is not expecting to play a down in the NFL until the sex change is complete and she puts on another 100 lbs. + but this is Emery's first pick so he'll get a pass with a bit of questioning. - 1060Ivy
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<!--quoteo(post=25517:date=Mar 28 2009, 08:44 AM:name=rok)-->QUOTE (rok @ Mar 28 2009, 08:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I'm to the point where I just don't care where he bats, and am tired of it coming up all the time. If he's comfortable there, you don't mess with him. Believe it or not, as bad as he's performed in the postseason, he isn't the main reason why we've sucked in October. And if he ever decides to get hot late in a season again, he could carry a team to a championship. Not saying it will happen, but I just don't see a reason to make a change just for the sake of change, especially since all of the other options for leadoff aren't ideal either.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Good post rok, definitely agree with you. When this whole "moving Soriano down in the lineup" idea came out, I thought it might have some sense to it. But Soriano has shown that leadoff is where he is truly comfortable and hes been very productive. People rip on Sori in the lead-off spot as if that is the reason for the postseason disgrace last year, but the bottom line is that batting him somewhere else in the lineup would not have changed the result of that series.
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<!--quoteo(post=25494:date=Mar 28 2009, 01:50 AM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ Mar 28 2009, 01:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=25486:date=Mar 28 2009, 12:21 AM:name=Clapp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Clapp @ Mar 28 2009, 12:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->When Alf leads off the game...
698 plate apperances: <b>49 homers</b>, .310/.352/.563/.975<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
49 <b>solo</b> homers.
Kinda proves the other side's point, no?
Because nobody is saying "Alf sucks, bat him at the bottom of the lineup."
Instead, we're saying:
"Alf's strength: tremendous HR power.
Alf's weakness: has a real tough time getting on base.
In other words, by batting him leadoff, his <i>strength</i> is wasted, and his <i>weakness</i> is magnified."
Seems pretty simple.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think hitting him leadoff magnifies his strength. I think a starter is a lot more worried about giving a leadoff hitter with speed a free pass than the 7% chance Soriano hits a solo homer.
I like you guys a lot.
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Sorry Scarey, I was actually trying to pay you a compliment. That's why I even mentioned you in that post. My bad.
Reagan was called "The "Great Communicator;" I think I can lay claim to "The Great Word Mangler," or "Emperor of the Unintentional Insult."
To put it in plainer English: I thought you made some good points.
I always favor "playing the percentages," but many championships have been won by smart baseball men going with their "gut."
There are many ways to skin a cat, especially in the game of baseball.
There's nothing better than to realize that the good things about youth don't end with youth itself. It's a matter of realizing that life can be renewed every day you get out of bed without baggage. It's tough to get there, but it's better than the dark thoughts. -Lance
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<!--quoteo(post=25789:date=Mar 30 2009, 02:07 PM:name=leonardsipes)-->QUOTE (leonardsipes @ Mar 30 2009, 02:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=25494:date=Mar 28 2009, 01:50 AM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ Mar 28 2009, 01:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=25486:date=Mar 28 2009, 12:21 AM:name=Clapp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Clapp @ Mar 28 2009, 12:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->When Alf leads off the game...
698 plate apperances: <b>49 homers</b>, .310/.352/.563/.975<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
49 <b>solo</b> homers.
Kinda proves the other side's point, no?
Because nobody is saying "Alf sucks, bat him at the bottom of the lineup."
Instead, we're saying:
"Alf's strength: tremendous HR power.
Alf's weakness: has a real tough time getting on base.
In other words, by batting him leadoff, his <i>strength</i> is wasted, and his <i>weakness</i> is magnified."
Seems pretty simple.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think hitting him leadoff magnifies his strength. I think a starter is a lot more worried about giving a leadoff hitter with speed a free pass than the 7% chance Soriano hits a solo homer.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Soriano has 298 career walks -- which include intentional walks -- and 270 career homers. <i>So, the likelihood of him taking a walk is pretty much equal to the likelihood of him hitting a homer.</i> He isn't seeing more fastballs in the leadoff spot compared to any other spot in the lineup unless the catcher and/or pitcher are complete morons.
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<!--quoteo(post=25790:date=Mar 30 2009, 03:16 PM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ Mar 30 2009, 03:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Sorry Scarey, I was actually trying to pay you a compliment. That's why I even mentioned you in that post. My bad.
Reagan was called "The "Great Communicator;" I think I can lay claim to "The Great Word Mangler," or "Emperor of the Unintentional Insult."
To put it in plainer English: I thought you made some good points.
I always favor "playing the percentages," but many championships have been won by smart baseball men going with their "gut."
There are many ways to skin a cat, especially in the game of baseball.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No reason to apologize man. Like I said, I made an observation and just thought I should say something.
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<!--quoteo(post=25792:date=Mar 30 2009, 01:22 PM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Mar 30 2009, 01:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=25789:date=Mar 30 2009, 02:07 PM:name=leonardsipes)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (leonardsipes @ Mar 30 2009, 02:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=25494:date=Mar 28 2009, 01:50 AM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ Mar 28 2009, 01:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=25486:date=Mar 28 2009, 12:21 AM:name=Clapp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Clapp @ Mar 28 2009, 12:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->When Alf leads off the game...
698 plate apperances: <b>49 homers</b>, .310/.352/.563/.975<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
49 <b>solo</b> homers.
Kinda proves the other side's point, no?
Because nobody is saying "Alf sucks, bat him at the bottom of the lineup."
Instead, we're saying:
"Alf's strength: tremendous HR power.
Alf's weakness: has a real tough time getting on base.
In other words, by batting him leadoff, his <i>strength</i> is wasted, and his <i>weakness</i> is magnified."
Seems pretty simple.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think hitting him leadoff magnifies his strength. I think a starter is a lot more worried about giving a leadoff hitter with speed a free pass than the 7% chance Soriano hits a solo homer.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Soriano has 298 career walks -- which include intentional walks -- and 270 career homers. <i>So, the likelihood of him taking a walk is pretty much equal to the likelihood of him hitting a homer.</i> <b>He isn't seeing more fastballs in the leadoff spot compared to any other spot in the lineup unless the catcher and/or pitcher are complete morons.</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes he is, because he's leading off the game. It's just a couple more, but it's more. Starting pitchers don't come out firing sliders to the first batter of the game.
@TheBlogfines
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<!--quoteo(post=25876:date=Mar 30 2009, 09:02 PM:name=Clapp)-->QUOTE (Clapp @ Mar 30 2009, 09:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=25792:date=Mar 30 2009, 01:22 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Mar 30 2009, 01:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=25789:date=Mar 30 2009, 02:07 PM:name=leonardsipes)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (leonardsipes @ Mar 30 2009, 02:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=25494:date=Mar 28 2009, 01:50 AM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ Mar 28 2009, 01:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=25486:date=Mar 28 2009, 12:21 AM:name=Clapp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Clapp @ Mar 28 2009, 12:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->When Alf leads off the game...
698 plate apperances: <b>49 homers</b>, .310/.352/.563/.975<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
49 <b>solo</b> homers.
Kinda proves the other side's point, no?
Because nobody is saying "Alf sucks, bat him at the bottom of the lineup."
Instead, we're saying:
"Alf's strength: tremendous HR power.
Alf's weakness: has a real tough time getting on base.
In other words, by batting him leadoff, his <i>strength</i> is wasted, and his <i>weakness</i> is magnified."
Seems pretty simple.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think hitting him leadoff magnifies his strength. I think a starter is a lot more worried about giving a leadoff hitter with speed a free pass than the 7% chance Soriano hits a solo homer.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Soriano has 298 career walks -- which include intentional walks -- and 270 career homers. <i>So, the likelihood of him taking a walk is pretty much equal to the likelihood of him hitting a homer.</i> <b>He isn't seeing more fastballs in the leadoff spot compared to any other spot in the lineup unless the catcher and/or pitcher are complete morons.</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes he is, because he's leading off the game. It's just a couple more, but it's more. Starting pitchers don't come out firing sliders to the first batter of the game.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
According to FanGraphs, he saw a fastball last year 53.2% of the time, slider 22.9% and curve 10.7%. Every thing was less than 10%.
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playe...2B/OF#pitchtype
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