Peavy Talk

[Runnys]

<!--quoteo(post=2131:date=Dec 8 2008, 08:01 AM:name=ColoradoCub)-->QUOTE (ColoradoCub @ Dec 8 2008, 08:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <!--quotec-->Keep in mind that despite all the virtual ink that will be spilled on Peavy over the next four days, Jayson Stark sees "just about a zero chance" he's dealt at the Meetings. Still, the Cubs and Padres seem to already have a framework in place involving Sean Marshall, Kevin Hart, Josh Vitters, and maybe Ronny Cedeno.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
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Let me just say that I don't like it.

[veryzer]

<!--quoteo(post=2098:date=Dec 7 2008, 09:13 PM:name=Coldneck)-->QUOTE (Coldneck @ Dec 7 2008, 09:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=2089:date=Dec 7 2008, 09:23 PM:name=Scarey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Dec 7 2008, 09:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=2086:date=Dec 7 2008, 09:18 PM:name=savant)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (savant @ Dec 7 2008, 09:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Was Dlee unclutch in 05 when he hit 46 homers and and only had 107 rbi?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Yes. He had a .331 average with RISP and drove in 64 of those runs with RISP.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

You just pointed out why RBIs are not the best stat to evaluate a player.

Do you think Ryan Howard would have so many RBI if Rollins and Utley weren't hitting in fornt opf him. Put Howard in San Fran's lineup and see how many RBIs he would have had.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


i bet he'd still drive in 120 runs. run producers drive in runs no matter who bats before them or after them. rbi are more than a team stat.

[Andy]

If you went:

Soriano
Dunn
DLee
Ramirez
Soto
DeRosa/Fontenot
Fukudome/Johnson
Theriot

We'd be a pretty healthy offensive ball club. Most of you seem so stuck on the fact that the team shat the bed for 3 games that you forget the Cubs lead the NL in run production last season. We're losing NO ONE from the offensive side of things. Adding 1 more bat would make the Cubs go from a very good offensive team to an excellent one.... <i>on paper.</i>

[sleepyhead]

<!--quoteo(post=2132:date=Dec 8 2008, 08:11 AM:name=Runnys)-->QUOTE (Runnys @ Dec 8 2008, 08:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=2131:date=Dec 8 2008, 08:01 AM:name=ColoradoCub)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ColoradoCub @ Dec 8 2008, 08:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <!--quotec-->Keep in mind that despite all the virtual ink that will be spilled on Peavy over the next four days, Jayson Stark sees "just about a zero chance" he's dealt at the Meetings. Still, the Cubs and Padres seem to already have a framework in place involving Sean Marshall, Kevin Hart, Josh Vitters, and maybe Ronny Cedeno.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Let me just say that I don't like it.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

You don't like a deal that would involve getting Peavy and giving up Marshall, Hart, Vitters and Cedeno? Seriously? None of those names give me even a second of pause in that deal.

[rok]

<!--quoteo(post=2139:date=Dec 8 2008, 08:47 AM:name=sleepyhead)-->QUOTE (sleepyhead @ Dec 8 2008, 08:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=2132:date=Dec 8 2008, 08:11 AM:name=Runnys)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Runnys @ Dec 8 2008, 08:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=2131:date=Dec 8 2008, 08:01 AM:name=ColoradoCub)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ColoradoCub @ Dec 8 2008, 08:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <!--quotec-->Keep in mind that despite all the virtual ink that will be spilled on Peavy over the next four days, Jayson Stark sees "just about a zero chance" he's dealt at the Meetings. Still, the Cubs and Padres seem to already have a framework in place involving Sean Marshall, Kevin Hart, Josh Vitters, and maybe Ronny Cedeno.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Let me just say that I don't like it.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

You don't like a deal that would involve getting Peavy and giving up Marshall, Hart, Vitters and Cedeno? Seriously? None of those names give me even a second of pause in that deal.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed. As long as the trade doesn't prevent us from adding another player or two, I wouldn't shed a tear about losing any of those people.

[Rappster]

<!--quoteo(post=2135:date=Dec 8 2008, 08:27 AM:name=veryzer)-->QUOTE (veryzer @ Dec 8 2008, 08:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=2098:date=Dec 7 2008, 09:13 PM:name=Coldneck)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Coldneck @ Dec 7 2008, 09:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=2089:date=Dec 7 2008, 09:23 PM:name=Scarey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Dec 7 2008, 09:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=2086:date=Dec 7 2008, 09:18 PM:name=savant)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (savant @ Dec 7 2008, 09:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Was Dlee unclutch in 05 when he hit 46 homers and and only had 107 rbi?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Yes. He had a .331 average with RISP and drove in 64 of those runs with RISP.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

You just pointed out why RBIs are not the best stat to evaluate a player.

Do you think Ryan Howard would have so many RBI if Rollins and Utley weren't hitting in fornt opf him. Put Howard in San Fran's lineup and see how many RBIs he would have had.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


i bet he'd still drive in 120 runs. run producers drive in runs no matter who bats before them or after them. rbi are more than a team stat.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Exactly...I'm no fan of Adam Dunn, but RBIs are not a team stat.

While great offensive teams do provide more opportunities, the true clutch hitters still find a way.

Now...let's find a way to beat the everlovin' drippy out of Rubage.

[ColoradoCub]

<!--quoteo(post=2139:date=Dec 8 2008, 07:47 AM:name=sleepyhead)-->QUOTE (sleepyhead @ Dec 8 2008, 07:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=2132:date=Dec 8 2008, 08:11 AM:name=Runnys)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Runnys @ Dec 8 2008, 08:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=2131:date=Dec 8 2008, 08:01 AM:name=ColoradoCub)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ColoradoCub @ Dec 8 2008, 08:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <!--quotec-->Keep in mind that despite all the virtual ink that will be spilled on Peavy over the next four days, Jayson Stark sees "just about a zero chance" he's dealt at the Meetings. Still, the Cubs and Padres seem to already have a framework in place involving Sean Marshall, Kevin Hart, Josh Vitters, and maybe Ronny Cedeno.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Let me just say that I don't like it.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

You don't like a deal that would involve getting Peavy and giving up Marshall, Hart, Vitters and Cedeno? Seriously? None of those names give me even a second of pause in that deal.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Seriously.

[Ace]

Just curious, who does San Diego have right now to replace Greene at short?

[ColoradoCub]

<!--quoteo(post=2149:date=Dec 8 2008, 08:40 AM:name=Ace)-->QUOTE (Ace @ Dec 8 2008, 08:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Just curious, who does San Diego have right now to replace Greene at short?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Nobody, so Cedeno certainly appears to be a lock in any deal for Peavy.

[rok]

<!--quoteo(post=2149:date=Dec 8 2008, 09:40 AM:name=Ace)-->QUOTE (Ace @ Dec 8 2008, 09:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Just curious, who does San Diego have right now to replace Greene at short?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Luis Rodríguez, who kinda sucks, and I forget who they have in the minors.

[sleepyhead]

<!--quoteo(post=2148:date=Dec 8 2008, 09:34 AM:name=ColoradoCub)-->QUOTE (ColoradoCub @ Dec 8 2008, 09:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=2139:date=Dec 8 2008, 07:47 AM:name=sleepyhead)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (sleepyhead @ Dec 8 2008, 07:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=2132:date=Dec 8 2008, 08:11 AM:name=Runnys)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Runnys @ Dec 8 2008, 08:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=2131:date=Dec 8 2008, 08:01 AM:name=ColoradoCub)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ColoradoCub @ Dec 8 2008, 08:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <!--quotec-->Keep in mind that despite all the virtual ink that will be spilled on Peavy over the next four days, Jayson Stark sees "just about a zero chance" he's dealt at the Meetings. Still, the Cubs and Padres seem to already have a framework in place involving Sean Marshall, Kevin Hart, Josh Vitters, and maybe Ronny Cedeno.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Let me just say that I don't like it.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

You don't like a deal that would involve getting Peavy and giving up Marshall, Hart, Vitters and Cedeno? Seriously? None of those names give me even a second of pause in that deal.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Seriously.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Seriously that's the deal, or seriously you don't like it?

[BT]

<!--quoteo(post=2135:date=Dec 8 2008, 08:27 AM:name=veryzer)-->QUOTE (veryzer @ Dec 8 2008, 08:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=2098:date=Dec 7 2008, 09:13 PM:name=Coldneck)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Coldneck @ Dec 7 2008, 09:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=2089:date=Dec 7 2008, 09:23 PM:name=Scarey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Dec 7 2008, 09:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=2086:date=Dec 7 2008, 09:18 PM:name=savant)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (savant @ Dec 7 2008, 09:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Was Dlee unclutch in 05 when he hit 46 homers and and only had 107 rbi?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Yes. He had a .331 average with RISP and drove in 64 of those runs with RISP.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

You just pointed out why RBIs are not the best stat to evaluate a player.

Do you think Ryan Howard would have so many RBI if Rollins and Utley weren't hitting in fornt opf him. Put Howard in San Fran's lineup and see how many RBIs he would have had.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


i bet he'd still drive in 120 runs. run producers drive in runs no matter who bats before them or after them. rbi are more than a team stat.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Is Barry Bonds a "run producer"?

In 22 Major League seasons, Bonds drove in 120 runs exactly 4 times. That includes 5 different years in which he hit more than 40 home runs, and did not have 120 RBI, and 4 years in which he won the MVP without driving in 120. Putting aside for the moment HOW Bonds did what he did (steroids), the fact is he is, along with Pujols, the preeminent run producer of our time. The idea that because he didn't hit an arbitrary number like 120 RBI somehow means he wasn't "clutch" is preposterous.

RBI's are a nice stat, but since virtually every study I've seen suggests there is no such thing as a "clutch" hitter, I'll continue to look at RBI as a context driven stat. That doesn't make it useless, but if every other stat tells me a guy can hit, I'll forgive him for a low RBI total.

[ColoradoCub]

<!--quoteo(post=2154:date=Dec 8 2008, 08:58 AM:name=sleepyhead)-->QUOTE (sleepyhead @ Dec 8 2008, 08:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=2148:date=Dec 8 2008, 09:34 AM:name=ColoradoCub)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ColoradoCub @ Dec 8 2008, 09:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=2139:date=Dec 8 2008, 07:47 AM:name=sleepyhead)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (sleepyhead @ Dec 8 2008, 07:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=2132:date=Dec 8 2008, 08:11 AM:name=Runnys)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Runnys @ Dec 8 2008, 08:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=2131:date=Dec 8 2008, 08:01 AM:name=ColoradoCub)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ColoradoCub @ Dec 8 2008, 08:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <!--quotec-->Keep in mind that despite all the virtual ink that will be spilled on Peavy over the next four days, Jayson Stark sees "just about a zero chance" he's dealt at the Meetings. Still, the Cubs and Padres seem to already have a framework in place involving Sean Marshall, Kevin Hart, Josh Vitters, and maybe Ronny Cedeno.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Let me just say that I don't like it.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

You don't like a deal that would involve getting Peavy and giving up Marshall, Hart, Vitters and Cedeno? Seriously? None of those names give me even a second of pause in that deal.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Seriously.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Seriously that's the deal, or seriously you don't like it?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Seriously, I think Runnys is off his rocker.

[Butcher]

<!--quoteo(post=2155:date=Dec 8 2008, 09:59 AM:name=BT)-->QUOTE (BT @ Dec 8 2008, 09:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=2135:date=Dec 8 2008, 08:27 AM:name=veryzer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (veryzer @ Dec 8 2008, 08:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=2098:date=Dec 7 2008, 09:13 PM:name=Coldneck)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Coldneck @ Dec 7 2008, 09:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=2089:date=Dec 7 2008, 09:23 PM:name=Scarey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Dec 7 2008, 09:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=2086:date=Dec 7 2008, 09:18 PM:name=savant)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (savant @ Dec 7 2008, 09:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Was Dlee unclutch in 05 when he hit 46 homers and and only had 107 rbi?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Yes. He had a .331 average with RISP and drove in 64 of those runs with RISP.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

You just pointed out why RBIs are not the best stat to evaluate a player.

Do you think Ryan Howard would have so many RBI if Rollins and Utley weren't hitting in fornt opf him. Put Howard in San Fran's lineup and see how many RBIs he would have had.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


i bet he'd still drive in 120 runs. run producers drive in runs no matter who bats before them or after them. rbi are more than a team stat.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Is Barry Bonds a "run producer"?

In 22 Major League seasons, Bonds drove in 120 runs exactly 4 times. That includes 5 different years in which he hit more than 40 home runs, and did not have 120 RBI, and 4 years in which he won the MVP without driving in 120. Putting aside for the moment HOW Bonds did what he did (steroids), the fact is he is, along with Pujols, the preeminent run producer of our time. The idea that because he didn't hit an arbitrary number like 120 RBI somehow means he wasn't "clutch" is preposterous.

RBI's are a nice stat, but since virtually every study I've seen suggests there is no such thing as a "clutch" hitter, I'll continue to look at RBI as a context driven stat. That doesn't make it useless, but if every other stat tells me a guy can hit, I'll forgive him for a low RBI total.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
BT might be the smartest guy on this site.

Other than me, of course.

[Giff]

<!--quoteo(post=2148:date=Dec 8 2008, 09:34 AM:name=ColoradoCub)-->QUOTE (ColoradoCub @ Dec 8 2008, 09:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=2139:date=Dec 8 2008, 07:47 AM:name=sleepyhead)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (sleepyhead @ Dec 8 2008, 07:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=2132:date=Dec 8 2008, 08:11 AM:name=Runnys)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Runnys @ Dec 8 2008, 08:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=2131:date=Dec 8 2008, 08:01 AM:name=ColoradoCub)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ColoradoCub @ Dec 8 2008, 08:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <!--quotec-->Keep in mind that despite all the virtual ink that will be spilled on Peavy over the next four days, Jayson Stark sees "just about a zero chance" he's dealt at the Meetings. Still, the Cubs and Padres seem to already have a framework in place involving Sean Marshall, Kevin Hart, Josh Vitters, and maybe Ronny Cedeno.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Let me just say that I don't like it.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

You don't like a deal that would involve getting Peavy and giving up Marshall, Hart, Vitters and Cedeno? Seriously? None of those names give me even a second of pause in that deal.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Seriously.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I'm with those who aren't a huge fan of this. One of the many reasons we were so great last year was our outstanding depth. We had 25 guys that could step in at any point and help this team win. Losing Marshall and Cedeno (and possibly Hart) really hurts that depth, for another starting pitcher that will eventually push someone like Lilly into the pen in the playoffs. I wouldn't complain or be upset if we got Peavy by any means, but I think it could possibly come back to bite us a little if we lose a lot of the depth. Starting pitching is probably the last thing on my list of things that need improvement.