Peavy Talk

[Clapp]

There's definitely certain RBI specialists though. When there's a runner on 3rd and less than 2 outs, they get the job done. Aramis, Manny, Ibanez, Zimmerman are going to be great RBI guys, regardless of their lineups. Again, Adam Dunn didn't hit a single sacrifice fly for years. There's a reason he doesn't have many RBI, Scarey's right. You've gotta put the ball in play to get runs in. It's also why I think Alf wouldn't be a huge RBI guy in the middle of the order. Like Coldneck said though, Howard drove in 146 RBI thanks to his lineup and park. Ibanez driving in 110 in a pitcher's park with a guy with a .322 obp hitting in front of him is pretty damn good.

Aramis man on 3rd, less than 2 outs: 34 at bats, 34 RBI
Ibanez man on 3rd, less than 2 outs: 36 at bats, 36 RBI
Dunn man on 3rd, less than 2 outs: 31 at bats, 21 RBI

[Butcher]

<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->Again, Adam Dunn didn't hit a single sacrifice fly for years.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Other than his rookie year, when he only played in 66 games, 2004 is the only year he didn't have a sac fly.

Manny Ramirez had 2 sac flies in 2001, and 1 sac fly in 2002. He also didn't hit a single sac fly in 2008 with the Red Sox (in 100 games).

So...there's that.

[Clapp]

<!--quoteo(post=2106:date=Dec 7 2008, 11:11 PM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Dec 7 2008, 11:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <!--quotec-->Again, Adam Dunn didn't hit a single sacrifice fly for years.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Other than his rookie year, when he only played in 66 games, 2004 is the only year he didn't have a sac fly.

Manny Ramirez had 2 sac flies in 2001, and 1 sac fly in 2002. He also didn't hit a single sac fly in 2008 with the Red Sox (in 100 games).

So...there's that.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I swear I've heard many times he didn't. I guess I'm wrong then, and so is everybody else that's blabbered about it on tv. I remember he finally hit one like 2 years ago and they talked about how is streak was over, and I had heard about it many times before that.

And while we're at it, Manny with a runner on 3rd and less than 2 outs:

29 RBI in 27 at bats, .556 batting average, 1.489 OPS. Some guys just get it done.

[Clapp]

<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->Saturday, July 14, 2007
Gaining an appreciation for the sacrifice fly
By Tim Kurkjian
ESPN The Magazine

This column was written for three people, Steve Berthiaume, Orel Hershiser and Eduardo Perez, three of my buddies on Baseball Tonight. On a recent show, I got a little caught up in the fact that Carlos Lee had 13 sacrifice flies, setting the Astros' club record for sacrifice flies in a season before he even got to the All-Star break. As I was explaining this oddity, I overstated it somewhat, saying, "I've always been fascinated by sacrifice flies.''

Before I could say another word, Berthiaume, who is hilarious, interrupted my thought by yelling at me, "did you just say you've always been fascinated by sacrifice flies?'' And then the three of them, on national television, proceeded to laugh at me. After a good 10 seconds of this, I, also laughing, boldly shot back, "stop making fun of me.''

It was, of course, good natured fun. I love those guys. It was, I hope, an amusing moment. And yet, I must defend myself. OK, "fascinated'' was a bit strong. But I offer the following facts about sacrifice flies. You be the judge of whether I deserved their derision.

• According to the Elias Sports Bureau, sacrifice flies were recognized as an official statistic from 1908-1930, then in 1939, but not continuously until 1954 (for the purpose of this story, we are only recognizing sacrifice flies after 1953). In 1954, the Dodgers' Gil Hodges had 19, which, 53 years later, remains the record. How weird is that? And yet, Carlos Lee, with 13 at the break, has a chance to break Hodges' record (from 1926-30, sacrifice flies were awarded for advancing any runner to any base with a fly ball).

• Eddie Murray is the all-time record holder with 128, followed by Cal Ripken with 127. A third Oriole, Brooks Robinson, holds the record for most seasons leading or tied for the league lead in sacrifice flies with four. Murray is the all-time record holder, but he never led or tied for his league lead in sacrifice flies in a season, but the following players did: Leo Posada, Barry Foote, Jack Heidemann, Rick Wilkins, Clay Dalrymple and Alan Bannister, who tied with Carl Yastrzemski for the American League lead in 1977.

Heidemann tied for the AL lead with Rico Petrocelli with 10 in 1970. Heidemann finished his career with 15 sacrifice flies. Posada tied with Minnie Minoso and Vic Power for the AL lead in 1961 with 12. Those 12 sacrifice flies were the only ones Posada hit in his three-year career.

• Eleven times in history has a player hit three sacrifice flies in one game, including Chad Kreuter, and the last being Edgar Martinez in 2002. <b>Then there's Adam Dunn, who has 15 sacrifice flies in his career, two more than Lee has this year. In 2004-05, Dunn went 1,085 plate appearances without a sacrifice fly. He had 65 chances -- runner at third base, less than two outs -- before he finally broke his streak with a fly ball to left field. The crowd at Great American Ballpark cheered him. Dunn raised his arms in triumph.
</b>
• Chili Davis drove in 112 runs in 1993, the record for RBIs in a season without a sacrifice fly. Perez told me that Davis told him that he never went to the plate with a runner at third base and less than two outs thinking about hitting a fly ball. He said it wasn't the correct mentality for a hitter to go to the plate thinking he was going to make an out. Plus, Davis said, if he tried to hit a fly ball, he might end up hitting an easy pop up to an infielder. And yet, Davis had 94 sacrifice flies, tied for 44th all time entering this year. In 1988, he tied Ripken (the only season in which Ripken led his league) for the AL lead with 10.

Dunn (102 RBIs, zero sacrifice flies for the 2004 Reds) and Nick Esasky (108 RBIs, zero sacrifice flies for the 1989 Red Sox) are the only other players since 1953 to drive in 100 runs in a season without hitting a sacrifice fly. Compare that to Heidemann's 1970 season. He drove in 37 runs, 10 on sacrifice flies, meaning over one-quarter of his RBIs came on balls in which he didn't even get a hit.

• Bob Boone, a career .254 hitter without much power, had as many or more sacrifice flies in his career (78) than six members of the 500-home run club who played all or most of their career after 1953: Willie McCovey, Harmon Killebrew, Mark McGwire, Reggie Jackson, Sammy Sosa and Mickey Mantle. Mantle hit 47, as many as Mickey Tettleton, and only one more than Neifi Perez. Perez? Mantle? Maybe this is explainable because those 500-home run guys were also swing and miss guys, as is Dunn, and Boone was a contact guy who was one of the best at putting the ball in play. And, maybe, when those 500-home run hitters got the ball in the air, it wasn't a sacrifice fly, it was a home run.

• Have you given any thought to how you can get a sacrifice fly? You can get one without even hitting a fair ball. You can get one while making an inning-ended double play: one out, runner on third scores, runner on first is thrown out trying to go to second, but if the runner on third scored before the third out was made, the run counts, and the hitters is credited with a sacrifice fly. You can be credited with a sacrifice fly, and still reach base: runner on third, fly ball to deep left field, left fielder drops it, runner on third tags and scores, batter gets credit for a sacrifice fly, no time at-bat, but reaches on the error. You can get two RBIs on one play without being recorded with an official at-bat if you hit a sacrifice fly that is so deep, the runners on third base and second base each tag up and score.

• Frank Thomas, the newest member of the 500-home run club, has 117 sacrifice flies in his career, 11 short of Murray's record.

So, when Thomas hits 12 sacrifice flies in the second half of the season to break Murray's record, and Lee hits seven more to break Hodges' single-season record, I just hope it happens on a night when I'm on Baseball Tonight. And I hope my friends Steve Berthiaume, Orel Hershiser and Eduardo Perez are on that night when I announce these historic and fascinating feats.

Who will be laughing then?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

So that's what it was, I "misremebered" how it officially went. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif[/img]

[ruby23]

I fucking hate Adam Dunt.

[dk123]

<!--quoteo(post=2112:date=Dec 7 2008, 10:59 PM:name=ruby23)-->QUOTE (ruby23 @ Dec 7 2008, 10:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I fucking hate Adam Dunt.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

According to some unsubstantiated rumors, he loves you though.

[dvdastud]

Dunn seems to be a problem I would like to have.

[Giff]

Adam Dunn? I'll pass, I want players who are gonna put up effort and care about winning.

[Clapp]

<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->But Cubs officials stress they're a long way from consummating a deal and have at least two significant steps to take before entering the final stages of Peavy talks -- namely acquiring their top priority of a left-handed bat and clearing payroll by trading the bulk of pitcher Jason Marquis' remaining $9.875 million contract.

While that points to the likelihood the Cubs will leave Las Vegas on Thursday without Peavy, <b>multiple sources with knowledge of the Cubs' talks with the Padres told the Sun-Times over the weekend they expect the deal to get done</b>.

Reports out of San Diego that the framework of a five-for-one deal is in place are exaggerated, a source close to the Cubs' dealings said.

But such a deal has been discussed, sources say, including the third-team involvement of the Baltimore Orioles, who are said to be willing to trade left-handed pitcher Garrett Olson for Cubs outfielder Felix Pie, allowing the Cubs to include Olson in a pitching-heavy deal for Peavy.

One well-placed Cubs source -- who earlier in the day told SI.com he thought a deal for Peavy was ''on life support'' -- said he was encouraged by events Sunday.

''It's definitely still alive,'' he said before emphasizing the work on other fronts the Cubs feel they must get done before closing a Peavy deal.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->A rumor floating around the Bellagio lobby Sunday evening had the Tampa Bay Rays being a possible third-team partner in a Peavy deal, but it was unclear how that would fit -- possibly a sign of how fluid the situation remains.

Cubs general manager Jim Hendry and Padres GM Kevin Towers also had discussed a potential deal for shortstop Khalil Greene before the Padres traded Greene to St. Louis, according to one of the sources.

Indications are that the Cubs have Florida Marlins outfielder Jeremy Hermida high on their list of possible hitters via trade and are looking at talented but injury-prone outfielder Milton Bradley via free agency. Bradley had until midnight Sunday to accept the Texas Rangers' arbitration offer but was expected to decline.

Manager Lou Piniella also is high on Seattle Mariners free-agent outfielder Raul Ibanez, and New York Yankees free agent Bobby Abreu might be the best fit for the Cubs.

While the Cubs privately admit they still have their eye on a trade for Orioles second baseman and leadoff hitter Brian Roberts if he becomes available, they could turn their attention to possible shortstop acquisitions, one of the sources said.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I posted most of the article, but I don't care, it's all important.
Link(Sun-Times "Peavy Deal Not Imminent")

And this is my favorite part, this pic was in the article with the following caption: "Chicago Cubs general manager Jim Hendry points to a television reporter after becoming upset with a question regarding trade rumors at meetings of baseball GMs."

[Scarey]

<!--quoteo(post=2098:date=Dec 7 2008, 10:13 PM:name=Coldneck)-->QUOTE (Coldneck @ Dec 7 2008, 10:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->You just pointed out why RBIs are not the best stat to evaluate a player.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Did I ever say RBIs are the best stat to evaluate a player by? No.

I said I was a big believer in RBIs. I think it's a good rule thumb. If I'm comparing a pool of players to determine the best offensive player of the bunch, I'm going to look at OPS first and then RBIs.

Despite the fact that some players play on terrible teams, they can still get something done. We've been talking about Ibanez, the guy played on a 61 win team for crying out loud and he managed to get 110 RBIs.

Again, I'll repeat myself: RBIs are no the be-all-end-all. They are great for getting a general evaluation for a player.

[Clapp]

I figured this would be a very possible destination for Marquis. He was great at Coors this year(7 innings, 2 er), and has been great there over his career(2.57 ERA) so it makes perfect sense.
<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->Beleaguered Mets pitcher Aaron Heilman has been a trade target this winter by the Rockies, but they deemed the price too high, according to a source close to the talks. Another name the Rockies have monitored is Cubs starter Jason Marquis. He could be moved if the Cubs need to clear payroll to make room for a trade to get San Diego's Jake Peavy.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Link(Denver Post)

[bz]

<!--quoteo(post=2120:date=Dec 8 2008, 02:12 AM:name=Scarey)-->QUOTE (Scarey @ Dec 8 2008, 02:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=2098:date=Dec 7 2008, 10:13 PM:name=Coldneck)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Coldneck @ Dec 7 2008, 10:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->You just pointed out why RBIs are not the best stat to evaluate a player.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Did I ever say RBIs are the best stat to evaluate a player by? No.

I said I was a big believer in RBIs. I think it's a good rule thumb. If I'm comparing a pool of players to determine the best offensive player of the bunch, I'm going to look at OPS first and then RBIs.

Despite the fact that some players play on terrible teams, they can still get something done. We've been talking about Ibanez, the guy played on a 61 win team for crying out loud and he managed to get 110 RBIs.

Again, I'll repeat myself: RBIs are no the be-all-end-all. They are great for getting a general evaluation for a player.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

On SOI 1.0 you said that you considered RBIs to be the single most important hitting stat. True story.

[Scarey]

<!--quoteo(post=2122:date=Dec 8 2008, 03:33 AM:name=bz)-->QUOTE (bz @ Dec 8 2008, 03:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=2120:date=Dec 8 2008, 02:12 AM:name=Scarey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Dec 8 2008, 02:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=2098:date=Dec 7 2008, 10:13 PM:name=Coldneck)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Coldneck @ Dec 7 2008, 10:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->You just pointed out why RBIs are not the best stat to evaluate a player.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Did I ever say RBIs are the best stat to evaluate a player by? No.

I said I was a big believer in RBIs. I think it's a good rule thumb. If I'm comparing a pool of players to determine the best offensive player of the bunch, I'm going to look at OPS first and then RBIs.

Despite the fact that some players play on terrible teams, they can still get something done. We've been talking about Ibanez, the guy played on a 61 win team for crying out loud and he managed to get 110 RBIs.

Again, I'll repeat myself: RBIs are no the be-all-end-all. They are great for getting a general evaluation for a player.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

On SOI 1.0 you said that you considered RBIs to be the single most important hitting stat. True story.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

You're purposely taking that out of context. I was saying that in reference to the MVP comparison.

[Rappster]

<!--quoteo(post=2125:date=Dec 8 2008, 07:01 AM:name=Scarey)-->QUOTE (Scarey @ Dec 8 2008, 07:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=2122:date=Dec 8 2008, 03:33 AM:name=bz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bz @ Dec 8 2008, 03:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=2120:date=Dec 8 2008, 02:12 AM:name=Scarey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Dec 8 2008, 02:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=2098:date=Dec 7 2008, 10:13 PM:name=Coldneck)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Coldneck @ Dec 7 2008, 10:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->You just pointed out why RBIs are not the best stat to evaluate a player.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Did I ever say RBIs are the best stat to evaluate a player by? No.

I said I was a big believer in RBIs. I think it's a good rule thumb. If I'm comparing a pool of players to determine the best offensive player of the bunch, I'm going to look at OPS first and then RBIs.

Despite the fact that some players play on terrible teams, they can still get something done. We've been talking about Ibanez, the guy played on a 61 win team for crying out loud and he managed to get 110 RBIs.

Again, I'll repeat myself: RBIs are no the be-all-end-all. They are great for getting a general evaluation for a player.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

On SOI 1.0 you said that you considered RBIs to be the single most important hitting stat. True story.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

You're purposely taking that out of context. I was saying that in reference to the MVP comparison.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

You need a two-day ban.

[ColoradoCub]

<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->Keep in mind that despite all the virtual ink that will be spilled on Peavy over the next four days, Jayson Stark sees "just about a zero chance" he's dealt at the Meetings. Still, the Cubs and Padres seem to already have a framework in place involving Sean Marshall, Kevin Hart, Josh Vitters, and maybe Ronny Cedeno.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->