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<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->Pitching and hitting fluctuates. Fielding, not so much. Guys are what they are. As you get older you lose a step, and maybe you're quicker turning a double play or something after a lot of practice. However for the most part, it's the same skills you've had since you came into the league. You can either field a groundball or you can't. You can either get to a groundball in the hole or you can't. You either have a Soriano arm or you don't. You either have quick reactions or you don't.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Here, Clapp, I've corrected it for you:
<!--coloro:#0000FF--><!--/coloro-->Pitching and hitting fluctuates. Fielding does too. Guys are what they are, but their performances can go up and down. As you get older you lose some bat speed, and maybe you're quicker turning on an inside fastball or something after a lot of practice. However for the most part, it's the same skills you've had since you came into the league. Yet oddly, hitting stats fluctuate <b>wildly</b>. It would seem that you can either hit a baseball or you can't. You can either get to a slider in the dirt or you can't. You either have Ryan Howard power or you don't. You either have quick reactions or you don't. Yet hitting stats fluctuate wildly. Fielding stats too, I guess.<!--colorc-->
<!--/colorc-->
There's nothing better than to realize that the good things about youth don't end with youth itself. It's a matter of realizing that life can be renewed every day you get out of bed without baggage. It's tough to get there, but it's better than the dark thoughts. -Lance
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<!--quoteo(post=17690:date=Feb 12 2009, 05:13 PM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ Feb 12 2009, 05:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <!--quotec-->Pitching and hitting fluctuates. Fielding, not so much. Guys are what they are. As you get older you lose a step, and maybe you're quicker turning a double play or something after a lot of practice. However for the most part, it's the same skills you've had since you came into the league. You can either field a groundball or you can't. You can either get to a groundball in the hole or you can't. You either have a Soriano arm or you don't. You either have quick reactions or you don't.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Here, Clapp, I've corrected it for you:
<!--coloro:#0000FF--> <!--/coloro-->Pitching and hitting fluctuates. Fielding does too. Guys are what they are, but their performances can go up and down. As you get older you lose some bat speed, and maybe you're quicker turning on an inside fastball or something after a lot of practice. However for the most part, it's the same skills you've had since you came into the league. Yet oddly, hitting stats fluctuate <b>wildly</b>. It would seem that you can either hit a baseball or you can't. You can either get to a slider in the dirt or you can't. You either have Ryan Howard power or you don't. You either have quick reactions or you don't. Yet hitting stats fluctuate wildly. Fielding stats too, I guess.<!--colorc-->
<!--/colorc-->
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif[/img] [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif[/img] [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif[/img] [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif[/img]
@TheBlogfines
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Oh, c'mon rube, you have to admit that was pretty good.
There's nothing better than to realize that the good things about youth don't end with youth itself. It's a matter of realizing that life can be renewed every day you get out of bed without baggage. It's tough to get there, but it's better than the dark thoughts. -Lance
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<!--quoteo(post=17710:date=Feb 12 2009, 08:13 PM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ Feb 12 2009, 08:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Oh, c'mon rube, you have to admit that was pretty good.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It was blue.
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<!--quoteo(post=17713:date=Feb 12 2009, 08:20 PM:name=ruby23)-->QUOTE (ruby23 @ Feb 12 2009, 08:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=17710:date=Feb 12 2009, 08:13 PM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ Feb 12 2009, 08:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Oh, c'mon rube, you have to admit that was pretty good.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It was blue.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh, and some of it was bolded.
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<!--quoteo(post=17685:date=Feb 12 2009, 06:49 PM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ Feb 12 2009, 06:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Scarey, you've just hit on a BIG point that fielding evaluators have been saying: Just like batting performances fluctuate a lot, just like pitching performances fluctuate a lot,
<b>FIELDING performance fluctuates</b> a lot too! So, much to Ruby's total chagrin, you can't just say anymore, "That guys sucks." The next year he might be a lot better. Or a lot worse. Like Cano.
You don't think players fluctuate?
Cliff Lee's 2006: 14-11 4.40 ERA
Cliff Lee's 2007: 5-8 6.29 ERA (even sent down to the minors)
Cliff Lee's 2008: 22-3 2.54 ERA
Makes Cano look like downright steady, doesn't it?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The thing is KB, it's not as if Dunn just got better. He had an outlier year in terms of defense.
I agree with you that fielding performances fluctuate. But, Dunn before 2008 had less than a -20 every single year of his career. To me, rather than Adam Dunn having a dramatic improvement in defense at the age of 29, I'm going to make the assumption that he just had a fluke year in the field.
If I had to place a bet on who would have a better defensive year based on plus/minus next year and knew both Abreu and Dunn would get most of their opportunities in the outfield, I would put my money on Abreu personally.
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OK, Scarey, you're on. Abreu will likely split time with Vlad in the OF/DH slot, and Dunn will likely play a lot of 1B, so they'll both be part-time OFers. If they have reasonably similar innings in the OF, then we'll base it on their plus/minus score.
I'll collect, er, we'll settle up after the regular season. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif[/img]
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I'm a stats guy, but I don't put a lot of credence in fielding stats.
I wish that I believed in Fate. I wish I didn't sleep so late. I used to be carried in the arms of cheerleaders.
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<!--quoteo(post=17733:date=Feb 12 2009, 10:12 PM:name=BT)-->QUOTE (BT @ Feb 12 2009, 10:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I'm a stats guy, but I don't put a lot of credence in fielding stats.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nobody does.
That's why they invented things like the plus/minus system, zone ratings, UZR and the like, things that take the ancient "fielding percentage" bullshit out of the equation.
There are lots of new angles on the subject. Yesterday a guy wrote a pretty solid article about his contention that "scooping poorly thrown balls" should be considered 25% of a 1st baseman's fielding rating, and did some copious research to back up his claim.
It's a brave new world out there.
There's nothing better than to realize that the good things about youth don't end with youth itself. It's a matter of realizing that life can be renewed every day you get out of bed without baggage. It's tough to get there, but it's better than the dark thoughts. -Lance
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The +/- might be a little more convincing if I knew how it was derived. Assuming it means that in '07 Dunn did not get to 29 balls the average LF would have and in '08 13 balls, it is really not a huge variance. If you factor all the ball he did get to, it figures to about 5% improvement in range. His career variance in fielding % is about 4%.
In Spring training Dusty Baker said that Dunn had the potential to be a much better LFer and was going to work on his defense. I thought the considering it was a contract year (before we knew about the economy) that Dunn was really going to have his best season. He had a 2nd chance in AZ. Get the Dbacks into to the playoffs and then do well. He could have set himself up for a big contract. Maybe he spends all his time doing econ stats, and knew it was all going to hell anyway.
I like you guys a lot.
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<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->Bill Hall is expected to miss 4-6 weeks with a partial tear of his left calf muscle sustained while working out Thursday.
Not a great start for a guy looking to bounce back this season. With Hall sidelined, Mike Lamb may get a chance to win a starting job against right-handers. The Brewers will also have the chance to take a longer look at Mat Gamel than expected. Gamel would have to show a great deal of progress on defense to have any chance of breaking camp with the team, but at least the door is slightly open now.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif[/img]
That didn't take long... Oh, and Fuck Bill Hall!
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<!--quoteo(post=17748:date=Feb 12 2009, 11:59 PM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ Feb 12 2009, 11:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=17733:date=Feb 12 2009, 10:12 PM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Feb 12 2009, 10:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I'm a stats guy, but I don't put a lot of credence in fielding stats.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nobody does.
That's why they invented things like the plus/minus system, zone ratings, UZR and the like, things that take the ancient "fielding percentage" bullshit out of the equation.
There are lots of new angles on the subject. Yesterday a guy wrote a pretty solid article about his contention that "scooping poorly thrown balls" should be considered 25% of a 1st baseman's fielding rating, and did some copious research to back up his claim.
It's a brave new world out there.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Kb, all of the stats guys know about zone ratings/uzr, and the plus minus system. The data is still wacky with the wild fluctuations from year to year. There are still problems with how the data is interpreted and valued. The first rule for having useful data is to be able to have repeatable results, and frankly there are no defensive metrics out which have been able to accomplish this important step. I like fangraphs, but I always try to look at three year averages to at least remove some of the spike from the numbers.
Sipes, in the plus minus, I believe that they are referring to runs per 150 games played. And, someone help me with this, I believe that eight runs is roughly calculated to represent one win for the players team. Or if the fielder is in the negative one loss?
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There's just so much shit that goes into it that they'll never have a perfect way to measure fielding. Look at the first base position for example. Digging balls out of the dirt, or like Lee at 6'5" is able to catch some throws other first basemen probably wouldn't, but we can never really know all this for sure. All these stats for defense <i>assist</i> our knowledge of who is good or not defensively, but this is something I think your eyes tell a lot better.
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Stark:
<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->Most unimproved teams: National League
1. Pittsburgh Pirates
2. St. Louis Cardinals
3. Milwaukee Brewers
No, the Pirates don't win this award every year. But this does make two in a row. And they did it this year despite massive competition, for reasons we've already discussed. So why did the Pirates nudge out St. Louis? Because they're coming off a 95-loss season and we bet even Bill Mazeroski couldn't name the only two free agents they signed to major league contracts this winter. They were … (the envelope please) none other than Eric Hinske and, ummm, Ramon Vazquez? Yeah. Really. Granted, the Pirates actually started their big roster-reconstruction project last July 31. And GM Neal Huntingdon certainly seems to be a man with a plan. But this is a team in danger of making very messy history if it rips off its 17th straight losing season. And, as one of our panelists put it, "I think they added more assistant general managers this winter than players." Uh, is that good?
FUN POLL FACT: Nine different NL teams got votes, and seven got multiple votes. So unimprovement was the clear specialty of the National League's entire house this winter<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
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