HOF ballot

[Butcher]

Here's the list:

• Harold Baines
• Jay Bell
• Bert Blyleven
• David Cone
• Andre Dawson
• Ron Gant
• Mark Grace
• Rickey Henderson
• Tommy John
• Don Mattingly
• Mark McGwire
• Jack Morris
• Dale Murphy
• Jesse Orosco
• Dave Parker
• Dan Plesac
• Tim Raines
• Jim Rice
• Lee Smith
• Alan Trammell
• Greg Vaughn
• Mo Vaughn
• Matt Williams

Rickey will get in, for sure. That will be the best HOF induction speech ever, by the way. I'd like to see Dawson and Lee Smith get in, as well. I'm thinking Rice has a shot. And I'd like Dale Murphy to get some consideration.

Matt Williams? Greg Vaughn? Dan Plesac? [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif[/img]

[Vine]

Ron Gant??

[rok]

Cone will probably get some votes. With a few more wins, he might have been a lock.

Actually, I take that back. I thought he had well over 200 wins.

[ColoradoCub]

<!--quoteo(post=680:date=Dec 2 2008, 09:33 AM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Dec 2 2008, 09:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Rickey will get in, for sure. That will be the best HOF induction speech ever, by the way.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Holy shit, yeah. I hadn't thought about that. Hopefully he does the whole thing in 3rd person.

That's a pretty weak ballot. Hopefully Dawson gets in this year.

[Butcher]

If Lee Smith can't get in and Trevor Hoffman is a first-ballot guy when his time comes around, I'm going to be pissed.

[rok]

<!--quoteo(post=687:date=Dec 2 2008, 10:44 AM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Dec 2 2008, 10:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->If Lee Smith can't get in and Trevor Hoffman is a first-ballot guy when his time comes around, I'm going to be pissed.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I still don't understand what the argument against Smith is. He averaged almost 30 Saves a season for 18 years. I mean he pitched almost 1300 innings. That's a pretty tall task, and most starters these days won't even do that over their entire careers. 3.03 career ERA? How many relievers have done that? I don't like to give RPs their due, but Smith was the premier closer for more than a decade, and his impact on the game was huge. Baseball writers are a sad bunch.

[Butcher]

<!--quoteo(post=691:date=Dec 2 2008, 10:55 AM:name=rok)-->QUOTE (rok @ Dec 2 2008, 10:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=687:date=Dec 2 2008, 10:44 AM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Dec 2 2008, 10:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->If Lee Smith can't get in and Trevor Hoffman is a first-ballot guy when his time comes around, I'm going to be pissed.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I still don't understand what the argument against Smith is. He averaged almost 30 Saves a season for 18 years. I mean he pitched almost 1300 innings. That's a pretty tall task, and most starters these days won't even do that over their entire careers. 3.03 career ERA? How many relievers have done that? I don't like to give RPs their due, but Smith was the premier closer for more than a decade, and his impact on the game was huge. Baseball writers are a sad bunch.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
All you have to do is compare his numbers to Gossage and Sutter. It's a no-brainer. Not to mention that until recently, he was the all-time saves leader. I know saves is a bullshit stat, but how can you be the all-time leader in saves and NOT be in the Hall? It's stupid.

[rok]

<!--quoteo(post=692:date=Dec 2 2008, 10:57 AM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Dec 2 2008, 10:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=691:date=Dec 2 2008, 10:55 AM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ Dec 2 2008, 10:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=687:date=Dec 2 2008, 10:44 AM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Dec 2 2008, 10:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->If Lee Smith can't get in and Trevor Hoffman is a first-ballot guy when his time comes around, I'm going to be pissed.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I still don't understand what the argument against Smith is. He averaged almost 30 Saves a season for 18 years. I mean he pitched almost 1300 innings. That's a pretty tall task, and most starters these days won't even do that over their entire careers. 3.03 career ERA? How many relievers have done that? I don't like to give RPs their due, but Smith was the premier closer for more than a decade, and his impact on the game was huge. Baseball writers are a sad bunch.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
All you have to do is compare his numbers to Gossage and Sutter. It's a no-brainer. Not to mention that until recently, he was the all-time saves leader. I know saves is a bullshit stat, but how can you be the all-time leader in saves and NOT be in the Hall? It's stupid.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Saves have sort of become a bullshit stat in today's game, but during a great portion of Smith's career, you had to earn your saves. Multi-inning saves were not uncommon, and either way to be that dominant for so long has to count for something.

[coolpoppa]

I can any of these having a shot:

• Andre Dawson
• Rickey Henderson
• Don Mattingly
• Lee Smith

If Dawson is getting in, this is his year. I really hope that it happens. He's always been my favorite Cub.

I also think that Lee should make it. He was durable, was the all time save leader and I love the stories about him falling asleep during games. Seems like he was a handful.

[rok]

Mattingly isn't a HOFer. He was a great hitter for about 5-6 seasons, but not much else.

[veryzer]

<!--quoteo(post=698:date=Dec 2 2008, 11:10 AM:name=rok)-->QUOTE (rok @ Dec 2 2008, 11:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Mattingly isn't a HOFer. He was a great hitter for about 5-6 seasons, but not much else.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

mattingly was on the fast track to the hall, but chronic back pains turned him into an average player. those 5 or 6 years though? one of the best runs in modern baseball history.

[Quinn]

I think it will be interesting what they do with McGwire.

[rok]

<!--quoteo(post=741:date=Dec 2 2008, 12:49 PM:name=HamSammitch)-->QUOTE (HamSammitch @ Dec 2 2008, 12:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=698:date=Dec 2 2008, 11:10 AM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ Dec 2 2008, 11:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Mattingly isn't a HOFer. He was a great hitter for about 5-6 seasons, but not much else.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

mattingly was on the fast track to the hall, but chronic back pains turned him into an average player. those 5 or 6 years though? one of the best runs in modern baseball history.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree, he would have made it rather easily had he been healthy for a decade and if his production remained at the same level (still a tall task), but there's a list about 100 names deep of guys who were on the so-called fast track to the Hall but then were slowed down by injuries or other personal issues or whatever. Also, being a Yankee has helped his legacy a ton.

[veryzer]

<!--quoteo(post=747:date=Dec 2 2008, 12:54 PM:name=rok)-->QUOTE (rok @ Dec 2 2008, 12:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=741:date=Dec 2 2008, 12:49 PM:name=HamSammitch)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (HamSammitch @ Dec 2 2008, 12:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=698:date=Dec 2 2008, 11:10 AM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ Dec 2 2008, 11:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Mattingly isn't a HOFer. He was a great hitter for about 5-6 seasons, but not much else.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

mattingly was on the fast track to the hall, but chronic back pains turned him into an average player. those 5 or 6 years though? one of the best runs in modern baseball history.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree, he would have made it rather easily had he been healthy for a decade and if his production remained at the same level (still a tall task), but there's a list about 100 names deep of guys who were on the so-called fast track to the Hall but then were slowed down by injuries or other personal issues or whatever. Also, being a Yankee has helped his legacy a ton.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


true dat, rok-and-rolla.

[wcplummer]

Tim Raines should be in easy.