As it stands, are we better now than we were last year?

[HTC]

I'm not sure we're any worse off than 08, but this team should win the division again so just get there and see what happens. The juggernaut we saw all last season got upended in a hurry so I'm going to have a hard time buying into regular season records come playoff time. As much as it pains me, the Cardinals best teams couldn't win it all and then they stumbled into the playoffs and won the freaking thing. That said, I still would like to see us improve as much as possible especially with injuries always a concern.

[Clapp]

<!--quoteo(post=9599:date=Jan 6 2009, 06:48 PM:name=HemisFear)-->QUOTE (HemisFear @ Jan 6 2009, 06:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Getting rid of Marquis is addition by subtraction. I am however very concerned about losing Woody and replacing him with Visciano. I don't know if this is a good move or not but it certainly doesn't "feel" like a good move.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We replaced Wood with Gregg, and they're pretty much equal.

[Clapp]

<!--quoteo(post=9364:date=Jan 6 2009, 11:20 AM:name=rok)-->QUOTE (rok @ Jan 6 2009, 11:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=9349:date=Jan 6 2009, 11:01 AM:name=sleepyhead)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (sleepyhead @ Jan 6 2009, 11:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=9345:date=Jan 6 2009, 10:53 AM:name=Ace)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ace @ Jan 6 2009, 10:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->If you want a righty with pop for the bench, I think we already have him - Jake Fox.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I'm not really worried about a bench bat, but we better have one more big cog coming in the form of a trade or the DeRo deal will piss me off all year.
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I don't think you're alone in feeling that way. <b>At the same time, I'm waiting for Hendry to give the old line about the team still having the flexibility to do another deal to improve the team during the season, and that we just have to wait and see how it plays out.</b>

You know that the ownership change is going to be the #1 excuse for not going after Peavy. It makes sense to worry about payroll during this transition, but I'm just wondering why we could sign so many other long term contracts, yet not have the financial leeway to acquire Peavy.
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At least we have confidence in Hendry at the deadline though. He seems to always get his #1 target, and it's possible we have more money to work with at that time right? This ownership situation is just an absolute distraction and it's obvious Hendry can't operate quite how he wants to.

[Butcher]

<!--quoteo(post=9601:date=Jan 6 2009, 06:57 PM:name=CFOrfan)-->QUOTE (CFOrfan @ Jan 6 2009, 06:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I think were worse because of the moves we made. I also think we are worse because some guys had terrific years and probably won't repeat. I think we are worse by a good margin. Maybe a whole 10 games.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
10 games? Even if you've hated this offseason and expect everyone to regress next year, that seems pretty extreme.

[Lance]

It amuses me that almost everyone is taking it as a given that we'll make the playoffs. Like nothing really bad could happen during the course of the 162 games preceding them. Kind of reminds me of 1985.....

[HTC]

<!--quoteo(post=9606:date=Jan 6 2009, 07:04 PM:name=Lance)-->QUOTE (Lance @ Jan 6 2009, 07:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->It amuses me that almost everyone is taking it as a given that we'll make the playoffs. Like nothing really bad could happen during the course of the 162 games preceding them. Kind of reminds me of 1985.....<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I'm not saying it's a given. I said this team should make the playoffs. I was in no way implying that it's a given.

[Butcher]

<!--quoteo(post=9606:date=Jan 6 2009, 07:04 PM:name=Lance)-->QUOTE (Lance @ Jan 6 2009, 07:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->It amuses me that almost everyone is taking it as a given that we'll make the playoffs. Like nothing really bad could happen during the course of the 162 games preceding them. Kind of reminds me of 1985.....<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think it's fair to say that everyone here knows that nothing is a given -- especially with this team. We're talking "on paper" at this point.

At least I am.

[HTC]

<!--quoteo(post=9608:date=Jan 6 2009, 07:06 PM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Jan 6 2009, 07:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=9606:date=Jan 6 2009, 07:04 PM:name=Lance)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lance @ Jan 6 2009, 07:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->It amuses me that almost everyone is taking it as a given that we'll make the playoffs. Like nothing really bad could happen during the course of the 162 games preceding them. Kind of reminds me of 1985.....<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think it's fair to say that everyone here knows that nothing is a given -- especially with this team. We're talking "on paper" at this point.

At least I am.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

You're a smart man.

[Fella]

Times are much different than they were in 85, divisions are smaller, payrolls are enormous, there was much more parity back then. Our team is significantly better than any in our division. Of course that doesn't mean its a given, but unless we have some major problems or completely shit the bed, this team will be in the playoffs.

That said I agree that as we stand right now, we are slightly worse than last year.

[Clapp]

<!--quoteo(post=9610:date=Jan 6 2009, 07:08 PM:name=Fella)-->QUOTE (Fella @ Jan 6 2009, 07:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Times are much different than they were in 85, divisions are smaller, payrolls are enormous, there was much more parity back then. Our team is significantly better than any in our division. Of course that doesn't mean its a given, but unless we have some major problems or completely shit the bed, this team will be in the playoffs.

That said I agree that as we stand right now, we are slightly worse than last year.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Bingo. I can't see any of those teams winning 85 games if they get the max out of their talent even. And let's face it, the Cards got max and then some last year. Everybody's worse, or too far back last year to be a serious threat. The Cubs will really, I mean really have to shit down their leg to not win this division as it appears now. And things aren't going to change much because these teams don't have the money to.

[Brock]

<!--quoteo(post=9605:date=Jan 6 2009, 07:04 PM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Jan 6 2009, 07:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=9601:date=Jan 6 2009, 06:57 PM:name=CFOrfan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CFOrfan @ Jan 6 2009, 06:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I think were worse because of the moves we made. I also think we are worse because some guys had terrific years and probably won't repeat. I think we are worse by a good margin. Maybe a whole 10 games.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
10 games? Even if you've hated this offseason and expect everyone to regress next year, that seems pretty extreme.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

When you consider that pretty much everything went right for this team and it won 97 games last season I don't think it's too far-fetched.

[Butcher]

<!--quoteo(post=9615:date=Jan 6 2009, 07:24 PM:name=Brock)-->QUOTE (Brock @ Jan 6 2009, 07:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=9605:date=Jan 6 2009, 07:04 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Jan 6 2009, 07:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=9601:date=Jan 6 2009, 06:57 PM:name=CFOrfan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CFOrfan @ Jan 6 2009, 06:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I think were worse because of the moves we made. I also think we are worse because some guys had terrific years and probably won't repeat. I think we are worse by a good margin. Maybe a whole 10 games.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
10 games? Even if you've hated this offseason and expect everyone to regress next year, that seems pretty extreme.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

When you consider that pretty much everything went right for this team and it won 97 games last season I don't think it's too far-fetched.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Everything went right for the team? I'm not sure I'd go that far.

- Alf missed over 50 games.
- Fukudome fell off a cliff and was a complete non-factor after the ASB.
- Zambrano pitched the fewest innings of his career post-2003 and was a roller-coaster ride.
- Rich Hill. Need I say more?
- Our number 3 hitter turned into a groundball/double-play machine.

Lots of good things happened too, of course.

- Dempster had an All-Star year.
- Soto's rise to stardom.
- Unexpected production from CF (Johnson/Edmonds).

I don't think we had some sort of lucky/charmed season by any means.

[wcplummer]

<!--quoteo(post=9615:date=Jan 6 2009, 07:24 PM:name=Brock)-->QUOTE (Brock @ Jan 6 2009, 07:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=9605:date=Jan 6 2009, 07:04 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Jan 6 2009, 07:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=9601:date=Jan 6 2009, 06:57 PM:name=CFOrfan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CFOrfan @ Jan 6 2009, 06:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I think were worse because of the moves we made. I also think we are worse because some guys had terrific years and probably won't repeat. I think we are worse by a good margin. Maybe a whole 10 games.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
10 games? Even if you've hated this offseason and expect everyone to regress next year, that seems pretty extreme.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

When you consider that pretty much everything went right for this team and it won 97 games last season I don't think it's too far-fetched.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Everything did not go right last year. Soriano hurt, Z hurt, Lee had below average year. It wasn't the perfect season.

I must type sloooowww.

[Clapp]

<!--quoteo(post=9621:date=Jan 6 2009, 08:39 PM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Jan 6 2009, 08:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=9615:date=Jan 6 2009, 07:24 PM:name=Brock)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Brock @ Jan 6 2009, 07:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=9605:date=Jan 6 2009, 07:04 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Jan 6 2009, 07:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=9601:date=Jan 6 2009, 06:57 PM:name=CFOrfan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CFOrfan @ Jan 6 2009, 06:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I think were worse because of the moves we made. I also think we are worse because some guys had terrific years and probably won't repeat. I think we are worse by a good margin. Maybe a whole 10 games.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
10 games? Even if you've hated this offseason and expect everyone to regress next year, that seems pretty extreme.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

When you consider that pretty much everything went right for this team and it won 97 games last season I don't think it's too far-fetched.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Everything went right for the team? I'm not sure I'd go that far.

- Alf missed over 50 games.
- Fukudome fell off a cliff and was a complete non-factor after the ASB.
- Zambrano pitched the fewest innings of his career post-2003 and was a roller-coaster ride.
- Rich Hill. Need I say more?
- Our number 3 hitter turned into a groundball/double-play machine.

Lots of good things happened too, of course.

- Dempster had an All-Star year.
- Soto's rise to stardom.
- Unexpected production from CF (Johnson/Edmonds).

I don't think we had some sort of lucky/charmed season by any means.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Add in that we clinched the division like what, 3 weeks before the end of the season? This was a 100 win team. Just the fact that we'll get to play crap in the division helps as well. No more facing Sabathia and Sheets.

[Brock]

<!--quoteo(post=9621:date=Jan 6 2009, 07:39 PM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Jan 6 2009, 07:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=9615:date=Jan 6 2009, 07:24 PM:name=Brock)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Brock @ Jan 6 2009, 07:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=9605:date=Jan 6 2009, 07:04 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Jan 6 2009, 07:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=9601:date=Jan 6 2009, 06:57 PM:name=CFOrfan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CFOrfan @ Jan 6 2009, 06:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I think were worse because of the moves we made. I also think we are worse because some guys had terrific years and probably won't repeat. I think we are worse by a good margin. Maybe a whole 10 games.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
10 games? Even if you've hated this offseason and expect everyone to regress next year, that seems pretty extreme.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

When you consider that pretty much everything went right for this team and it won 97 games last season I don't think it's too far-fetched.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Everything went right for the team? I'm not sure I'd go that far.

- Alf missed over 50 games.
- Fukudome fell off a cliff and was a complete non-factor after the ASB.
- Zambrano pitched the fewest innings of his career post-2003 and was a roller-coaster ride.
- Rich Hill. Need I say more?
- Our number 3 hitter turned into a groundball/double-play machine.

Lots of good things happened too, of course.

- Dempster had an All-Star year.
- Soto's rise to stardom.
- Unexpected production from CF (Johnson/Edmonds).

I don't think we had some sort of lucky/charmed season by any means.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Ok, how about "Significantly more things went right than went wrong?"

For me, some of those things that went wrong were not probably all that hard to predict (Alf getting hurt, Z struggling/getting hurt, DLee declining).

I guess maybe I'm just getting a bad feeling about this team next season. I think last year was a pretty charmed season (regular season that is) and there is plenty to be worried about for next year.