01-12-2009, 01:15 AM
I think this perfectly sums up 90% of baseball arguments we have on this site. People just view things differently, that's all.
This is from Joe Posnanski, one of the better writers around. I think he really shows both sides of the story well.
<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->Willie, Bloomquist and the Dunn
11 Jan 2009
I think it’s probably fair to say that Adam Dunn, for all his obvious talents, can be a remarkably frustrating player to watch. He is a dreadful left fielder, a designated hitter in outfielder’s clothes. He’s slow*. He strikes out a ton. He hits .225 with runners in scoring position for his career (and over his career he has never hit better than .248 in those situations). He walks (797 times) about as often as he gets a hit (955 hits) — those walks might be good for value but that doesn’t make them fun to watch. There is a sense around the game that he does not especially like playing baseball; and nobody who has watched him play with any regularity would argue that he demonstrates Willie Mays’ joy.
(*Though it should be noted that he’s not a bad baserunner … according to the Bill James baserunner analysis he’s actually a very GOOD base runner. He’s brutal going first to third, as you might expect, but he tends to score from second on singles and from first on doubles, he doesn’t run into many stupid outs, he doesn’t get caught stealing, and he doesn’t ground into many double plays (though in his case that probably has little to do with his running and a lot to do with his fly ball tendencies and his many, many strikeouts).
At the same time, I think it’s probably also fair to say that Willie Bloomquist, for all his obvious shortcomings, can be a fun player to watch, if you are a certain kind of baseball fan. He plays all the positions — he has at least 10 games at every position but pitcher and catcher — and he seems to play them all credibly. He can run (he has stolen 71 bases in 87 attempts), and he hustles, and he has that underdog thing going for him. He has only six career homers, but, hey, one was a grand slam. No one who has ever watched Willie Bloomquist play would doubt that the guy loves ball.
Yes, in my mind, Adam Dunn and Willie Bloomquist are almost perfect opposites. And while they are not anything close to equal baseball players, I would also say that you would not want to build a whole team of Bloomquists or Dunns*.
*According to the Baseball Musings Lineup Analysis — one of my favorite toys — a whole team of 2008 Adam Dunns would average 6.67 runs per game — so that’s 1,080 runs per season.
A whole team of 2008 Willie Bloomquists, meanwhile, would average 4.177 runs per game — 677 runs per season. So using the Musinator, Dunn is 400 or so runs better offensively than Bloomquist. That sounds about right to me. Of course, it’s downright frightening to imagine how two Adam Dunns would turn the double play.
By the way, this Lineup Analysis is sort of a fun way to compare players. Take the great NL MVP race of 2008.
According to the Musinator:
– A team of 2008 Albert Pujols would score 1,488 runs for a season.
– A team of 2008 Ryan Howards would score 977 runs for a season.
So, by this way of thinking, Pujols is 500-plus runs better. And he’s a much better defensive player, and a much better base runner, and … I’m really not sure why this was ever really an argument.
It’s also a fun way to look at the Hall of Fame Ballot. Here, using the players career numbers, is what a complete team made up of each player would score for a season:
Mark McGwire: 1,199 runs per season.
Rickey Henderson: 953 runs per season.
Jim Rice: 948 runs per season.
Tim Raines: 918 runs per season.
Don Mattingly: 916 runs per season.
Dale Murphy: 880 runs per season.
Dave Parker: 864 runs per season.
Andre Dawson: 837 runs per season.
Alan Trammell: 812 runs per season.
Of course, that’s just offense, and it doesn’t take into account much base running, the home park or anything else. A defensive spread with McGwire or Rice is positively frightening, and I’m not sure how a lefty-throwing Rickey plays shortstop or catches. I would say that eight Trammells would have the best defensive team, though it’s worth remembering that Murphy began his career as a catcher.
I find all this to be a little bit more than an interesting side note — I think that, in many ways, Dunn and Bloomquist represent opposing philosophies about baseball.
I think the Adam Dunn philosophy is built around what you can see, what is measurable, what is cold and hard and real. With Dunn, you get a titanic power hitter who plays every day, hits long home runs (exactly 40 ever year — no more, no less), walks a lot, strikes out every three or four at bats, plays zero positions, doesn’t have much speed and doesn’t do those little things that show off his great love of the game. The Dunn Way is the Michael Corleone Way, strictly business.
The Willie Bloomquist philosophy, meanwhile, is built around passion, what is intangible, this sense that if you can get a bunch of guys who KNOW HOW to play the game, who LOVE the game, who HAVE BASEBALLS BEATING IN THEIR CHESTS, then you can do wonderful things (even if the players can’t hit worth a damn). With Bloomquist you have an astonishingly weak hitter who plays occasionally, cracked ONE EXTRA BASE HIT last year*, doesn’t get on base, plays seven defensive positions, can really run and gets his uniform so dirty that, according to his jarringly lengthy Wikipedia entry, he has over the years been called (mostly in jest/derision) Wee Willie, Ballgame, The Ignitor, Effin, WFB, The Spork, Princess Willie, Willie Boom-Boom and, by Angels announcer Rex Hudler, The Mighty Bloomquist.
*Fewest extra base hits in a season (30 or more total hits)
1. Willie Bloomquist, 2008, 1 XBH, 46 hits
2. Glenn Beckert, 1974, 1 XBH, 44 hits
3. Bill Killefer, 1921, 1 XBH, 43 hits
4. Eddie Miller, 1979, 1 XBH, 35 hits
Luis Gomez, 1974, 1 XBH, 35 hits
And my point is that I believe every baseball fan, at his/her core, leans Dunn or Bloomquist.* People who believe that on-base percentage and slugging are the most significant things, that defense and speed are overrated, that what matters is what you do and not how you look doing it lean heavily Dunn. The New York Yankees have leaned heavily Dunn: Get on base, slug the ball, don’t worry too much about catching it. And so on.
*This goes along with my theory that every single person, at his/her core, leans offense or defense in football. I lean offense. I used to play almost daily games of Stratomatic Football with my buddy Chardon Jimmy, and it quickly became clear that he thinks defense first. He would pick his teams based on defense, based on what kind of pass rush he could muster, based on how well his team stopped the run, based on what kind of cover guys he had in the secondary, based on the speed of his linebackers. And I thought offense, I would pick my teams based on the abilities of the quarterback, the overall strength of the offensive line, the speed of receivers, the durability and general talents of the running back.
It occurred to me after a while that this wasn’t just the way we saw football in a game, it is how we WATCHED football. We would be watching the same game, and he would talk about how the defensive end was getting held, and I would talk about how the quarterback missed an open receiver on the left side. And then it occurred to me that it wasn’t just how we watched football, it was what we BELIEVED about football, and maybe what believed a bit about life too. Stratomatic is life, you know.
At the same time, there are plenty of people in the game and in the stands who believe that you win by doing the little things, by playing defense and running out ground balls and playing the game with passion every day. They lean heavily Bloomquist. The Minnesota Twins, for instance, lean Bloomquist.. The Twins run and catch the ball and they have not worried too much about power or on-base percentage. This, no doubt, frustrates the heck out of a lot of Dunn-leaning Twins fans.
It’s an irritating feeling when you lean heavily one way and have a team that leans heavily the other way. But I think the more irritating feeling is when you do not know which way your team leans. And that, finally, leads us to the Kansas City Royals, recent purchasers of Willie Bloomquist himself. The Royals under Dayton Moore have TALKED about leaning Dunn. That is, Dayton has made statements that would lead you to believe he cares a whole lot about on-base percentage and power numbers.
That’s what he says. But everything he DOES leads you to believe he leans very, very Bloomquist. Here are Dayton’s big-money signings and trades the last couple of years:
1. Jose Guillen ($12 million per): .323 on-base percentage.
2. Mike Jacobs ($3 million or so): .318 on-base percentage.
3. Coco Crisp ($5.75 million or so): .331 on-base percentage.
4. Willie Bloomquist ($1.55 million plus incentives): .324 on-base percentage.
5. Miguel Olivo ($2.7 million): .275 on-base percentage.
That’s actually quite remarkable. Look at that list again. You have five pickups totaling about $25 million per year — and you have to suspect that all five will be in next year’s lineup quite regularly. And not one guy — not ONE GUY — has even a league average on-base percentage for his career. Look at that list again. That’s the core of the Kansas City lineup — the leadoff hitter, the four-five hitters, the eight-nine hitters probably. And that’s a combined .314 on-base percentage.
So why did Dayton sign these guys?
1. Jose Guillen: Because he was the best right-handed “power” bat available, and he’s “a real competitor.”*
*And, oh, it can make you cry real tears to realize that while the Royals gave Guillen three years and $36 million, the Tampa Bay Rays just got Pat Burrell for two years at $16 million. I realize that the economy has changed, and the Rays are a significantly more appealing club to play for at the moment, and Burrell is possibly an even worse outfielder than Guillen, though that’s a race nobody wants to call. Still …
Jose Guillen career: .273/.323/.446, 100 OPS+
Pat Burrell career: .257/.367/.485, 119 OPS+
Jose Guillen 2008: .264/.300/.446 with 23 homers, 97 RBIs, 66 runs, 23 walks, 96 OPS+.
Pat Burrell 2008: .250/.367/.507 with 33 homers, 86 RBIs, 74 runs, 102 walks, 125 OPS+.
Cry real tears.
2. Mike Jacobs: Because he’s got power, and “his work ethic is off the charts.”
3. Coco Crisp: Because he’s an excellent defensive center fielder, has speed and could blossom playing every day. Plus, he has “been a part of championship teams.”
4. Willie Bloomquist: Because he’s got some speed, he’s versatile and “He’s an on base guy(??), a speed-type player and a hustler.”
5. Miguel Olivo: Because he’s got a little pop in his bat and he can throw out baserunners.
The Royals believe in the Bloomquist Way.
And look, I am not saying that these moves will not work. They could work, I guess. There are many ways to win baseball games. Guillen could have one more good season left in him. Jacbos could pop 30 homers. Crisp could revert back to his Cleveland days and could win a Gold Glove in Kansas City’s big center field. Bloomquist could, um, … well, he could be used as a super utility player. Olivo could … well, anyway.
The Royals also spent $4.25 million per year on Kyle Farnsworth and $1.9 million on Horacio Ramirez. Man, the Royals threw around a lot of money to a lot of players who did not have good years in 2008. Maybe it will work. They do have a lot of guys in the clubhouse who love the game. I personally would have taken that money and signed Adam Dunn and a couple of other guys who may not like baseball a whole lot but at least get on base and get batters out. It’s a different philosophy.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is from Joe Posnanski, one of the better writers around. I think he really shows both sides of the story well.
<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->Willie, Bloomquist and the Dunn
11 Jan 2009
I think it’s probably fair to say that Adam Dunn, for all his obvious talents, can be a remarkably frustrating player to watch. He is a dreadful left fielder, a designated hitter in outfielder’s clothes. He’s slow*. He strikes out a ton. He hits .225 with runners in scoring position for his career (and over his career he has never hit better than .248 in those situations). He walks (797 times) about as often as he gets a hit (955 hits) — those walks might be good for value but that doesn’t make them fun to watch. There is a sense around the game that he does not especially like playing baseball; and nobody who has watched him play with any regularity would argue that he demonstrates Willie Mays’ joy.
(*Though it should be noted that he’s not a bad baserunner … according to the Bill James baserunner analysis he’s actually a very GOOD base runner. He’s brutal going first to third, as you might expect, but he tends to score from second on singles and from first on doubles, he doesn’t run into many stupid outs, he doesn’t get caught stealing, and he doesn’t ground into many double plays (though in his case that probably has little to do with his running and a lot to do with his fly ball tendencies and his many, many strikeouts).
At the same time, I think it’s probably also fair to say that Willie Bloomquist, for all his obvious shortcomings, can be a fun player to watch, if you are a certain kind of baseball fan. He plays all the positions — he has at least 10 games at every position but pitcher and catcher — and he seems to play them all credibly. He can run (he has stolen 71 bases in 87 attempts), and he hustles, and he has that underdog thing going for him. He has only six career homers, but, hey, one was a grand slam. No one who has ever watched Willie Bloomquist play would doubt that the guy loves ball.
Yes, in my mind, Adam Dunn and Willie Bloomquist are almost perfect opposites. And while they are not anything close to equal baseball players, I would also say that you would not want to build a whole team of Bloomquists or Dunns*.
*According to the Baseball Musings Lineup Analysis — one of my favorite toys — a whole team of 2008 Adam Dunns would average 6.67 runs per game — so that’s 1,080 runs per season.
A whole team of 2008 Willie Bloomquists, meanwhile, would average 4.177 runs per game — 677 runs per season. So using the Musinator, Dunn is 400 or so runs better offensively than Bloomquist. That sounds about right to me. Of course, it’s downright frightening to imagine how two Adam Dunns would turn the double play.
By the way, this Lineup Analysis is sort of a fun way to compare players. Take the great NL MVP race of 2008.
According to the Musinator:
– A team of 2008 Albert Pujols would score 1,488 runs for a season.
– A team of 2008 Ryan Howards would score 977 runs for a season.
So, by this way of thinking, Pujols is 500-plus runs better. And he’s a much better defensive player, and a much better base runner, and … I’m really not sure why this was ever really an argument.
It’s also a fun way to look at the Hall of Fame Ballot. Here, using the players career numbers, is what a complete team made up of each player would score for a season:
Mark McGwire: 1,199 runs per season.
Rickey Henderson: 953 runs per season.
Jim Rice: 948 runs per season.
Tim Raines: 918 runs per season.
Don Mattingly: 916 runs per season.
Dale Murphy: 880 runs per season.
Dave Parker: 864 runs per season.
Andre Dawson: 837 runs per season.
Alan Trammell: 812 runs per season.
Of course, that’s just offense, and it doesn’t take into account much base running, the home park or anything else. A defensive spread with McGwire or Rice is positively frightening, and I’m not sure how a lefty-throwing Rickey plays shortstop or catches. I would say that eight Trammells would have the best defensive team, though it’s worth remembering that Murphy began his career as a catcher.
I find all this to be a little bit more than an interesting side note — I think that, in many ways, Dunn and Bloomquist represent opposing philosophies about baseball.
I think the Adam Dunn philosophy is built around what you can see, what is measurable, what is cold and hard and real. With Dunn, you get a titanic power hitter who plays every day, hits long home runs (exactly 40 ever year — no more, no less), walks a lot, strikes out every three or four at bats, plays zero positions, doesn’t have much speed and doesn’t do those little things that show off his great love of the game. The Dunn Way is the Michael Corleone Way, strictly business.
The Willie Bloomquist philosophy, meanwhile, is built around passion, what is intangible, this sense that if you can get a bunch of guys who KNOW HOW to play the game, who LOVE the game, who HAVE BASEBALLS BEATING IN THEIR CHESTS, then you can do wonderful things (even if the players can’t hit worth a damn). With Bloomquist you have an astonishingly weak hitter who plays occasionally, cracked ONE EXTRA BASE HIT last year*, doesn’t get on base, plays seven defensive positions, can really run and gets his uniform so dirty that, according to his jarringly lengthy Wikipedia entry, he has over the years been called (mostly in jest/derision) Wee Willie, Ballgame, The Ignitor, Effin, WFB, The Spork, Princess Willie, Willie Boom-Boom and, by Angels announcer Rex Hudler, The Mighty Bloomquist.
*Fewest extra base hits in a season (30 or more total hits)
1. Willie Bloomquist, 2008, 1 XBH, 46 hits
2. Glenn Beckert, 1974, 1 XBH, 44 hits
3. Bill Killefer, 1921, 1 XBH, 43 hits
4. Eddie Miller, 1979, 1 XBH, 35 hits
Luis Gomez, 1974, 1 XBH, 35 hits
And my point is that I believe every baseball fan, at his/her core, leans Dunn or Bloomquist.* People who believe that on-base percentage and slugging are the most significant things, that defense and speed are overrated, that what matters is what you do and not how you look doing it lean heavily Dunn. The New York Yankees have leaned heavily Dunn: Get on base, slug the ball, don’t worry too much about catching it. And so on.
*This goes along with my theory that every single person, at his/her core, leans offense or defense in football. I lean offense. I used to play almost daily games of Stratomatic Football with my buddy Chardon Jimmy, and it quickly became clear that he thinks defense first. He would pick his teams based on defense, based on what kind of pass rush he could muster, based on how well his team stopped the run, based on what kind of cover guys he had in the secondary, based on the speed of his linebackers. And I thought offense, I would pick my teams based on the abilities of the quarterback, the overall strength of the offensive line, the speed of receivers, the durability and general talents of the running back.
It occurred to me after a while that this wasn’t just the way we saw football in a game, it is how we WATCHED football. We would be watching the same game, and he would talk about how the defensive end was getting held, and I would talk about how the quarterback missed an open receiver on the left side. And then it occurred to me that it wasn’t just how we watched football, it was what we BELIEVED about football, and maybe what believed a bit about life too. Stratomatic is life, you know.
At the same time, there are plenty of people in the game and in the stands who believe that you win by doing the little things, by playing defense and running out ground balls and playing the game with passion every day. They lean heavily Bloomquist. The Minnesota Twins, for instance, lean Bloomquist.. The Twins run and catch the ball and they have not worried too much about power or on-base percentage. This, no doubt, frustrates the heck out of a lot of Dunn-leaning Twins fans.
It’s an irritating feeling when you lean heavily one way and have a team that leans heavily the other way. But I think the more irritating feeling is when you do not know which way your team leans. And that, finally, leads us to the Kansas City Royals, recent purchasers of Willie Bloomquist himself. The Royals under Dayton Moore have TALKED about leaning Dunn. That is, Dayton has made statements that would lead you to believe he cares a whole lot about on-base percentage and power numbers.
That’s what he says. But everything he DOES leads you to believe he leans very, very Bloomquist. Here are Dayton’s big-money signings and trades the last couple of years:
1. Jose Guillen ($12 million per): .323 on-base percentage.
2. Mike Jacobs ($3 million or so): .318 on-base percentage.
3. Coco Crisp ($5.75 million or so): .331 on-base percentage.
4. Willie Bloomquist ($1.55 million plus incentives): .324 on-base percentage.
5. Miguel Olivo ($2.7 million): .275 on-base percentage.
That’s actually quite remarkable. Look at that list again. You have five pickups totaling about $25 million per year — and you have to suspect that all five will be in next year’s lineup quite regularly. And not one guy — not ONE GUY — has even a league average on-base percentage for his career. Look at that list again. That’s the core of the Kansas City lineup — the leadoff hitter, the four-five hitters, the eight-nine hitters probably. And that’s a combined .314 on-base percentage.
So why did Dayton sign these guys?
1. Jose Guillen: Because he was the best right-handed “power” bat available, and he’s “a real competitor.”*
*And, oh, it can make you cry real tears to realize that while the Royals gave Guillen three years and $36 million, the Tampa Bay Rays just got Pat Burrell for two years at $16 million. I realize that the economy has changed, and the Rays are a significantly more appealing club to play for at the moment, and Burrell is possibly an even worse outfielder than Guillen, though that’s a race nobody wants to call. Still …
Jose Guillen career: .273/.323/.446, 100 OPS+
Pat Burrell career: .257/.367/.485, 119 OPS+
Jose Guillen 2008: .264/.300/.446 with 23 homers, 97 RBIs, 66 runs, 23 walks, 96 OPS+.
Pat Burrell 2008: .250/.367/.507 with 33 homers, 86 RBIs, 74 runs, 102 walks, 125 OPS+.
Cry real tears.
2. Mike Jacobs: Because he’s got power, and “his work ethic is off the charts.”
3. Coco Crisp: Because he’s an excellent defensive center fielder, has speed and could blossom playing every day. Plus, he has “been a part of championship teams.”
4. Willie Bloomquist: Because he’s got some speed, he’s versatile and “He’s an on base guy(??), a speed-type player and a hustler.”
5. Miguel Olivo: Because he’s got a little pop in his bat and he can throw out baserunners.
The Royals believe in the Bloomquist Way.
And look, I am not saying that these moves will not work. They could work, I guess. There are many ways to win baseball games. Guillen could have one more good season left in him. Jacbos could pop 30 homers. Crisp could revert back to his Cleveland days and could win a Gold Glove in Kansas City’s big center field. Bloomquist could, um, … well, he could be used as a super utility player. Olivo could … well, anyway.
The Royals also spent $4.25 million per year on Kyle Farnsworth and $1.9 million on Horacio Ramirez. Man, the Royals threw around a lot of money to a lot of players who did not have good years in 2008. Maybe it will work. They do have a lot of guys in the clubhouse who love the game. I personally would have taken that money and signed Adam Dunn and a couple of other guys who may not like baseball a whole lot but at least get on base and get batters out. It’s a different philosophy.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There's nothing better than to realize that the good things about youth don't end with youth itself. It's a matter of realizing that life can be renewed every day you get out of bed without baggage. It's tough to get there, but it's better than the dark thoughts. -Lance
