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<!--quoteo(post=11182:date=Jan 13 2009, 08:29 AM:name=BT)-->QUOTE (BT @ Jan 13 2009, 08:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->-Andre Dawson is a borderline HOF player. To put his career in the context of when he played, OPS+ becomes very handy, as it measures his OPS vs. the league average. Dawson's career OPS is 119. Which makes him very good, but sort of diminishes the argument that he towered over guys playing at the same time. Now OPS+ is obviously not the ONLY criteria you would use, and Dawson has many other stats which make him Hall worthy, but leaving him out does not seem to me to be a crime, like leaving Santo out is.
-IMO, Rice was borderline as well. Tom is right that he was awesome for a 3 year period, but that isn't necessarily enough. Dale Murphy was the best player in baseball for at least a couple years, and from 82-87 was pretty much out of his head, while playing a gold glove level Center Field. And there isn't a huge cry for him to make it (maybe there should be?).
-Pete Rose should be banned from baseball for life, because he broke the ONE rule that can ban you from baseball for life. He was aware of that rule when he bet, and deserves the punishment he has received. If a consequence of being banned from baseball is the fact that he is also banned from the HOF, then so be it.
-Not voting for Rickey Henderson for the HOF should mean you are no longer able to vote. Period.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
the difference between rice and murphy is that murphy sucked for quite a while, then was real good for 4 or 5 years, and then sucked again. rice was good, then great, then good, and then great again. he had a renassance after a couple bad years.
in their primes, they were both great, but rice was able to do it again, where murphy wasn't.
in the end, i don't think rice, murphy, or dawson should be in, but of the three, i'd have voted for dawson first, because he maintained a level of goodness for a longer period of time. longevity should count for something.
Wang.
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<!--quoteo(post=11172:date=Jan 13 2009, 09:08 AM:name=veryzer)-->QUOTE (veryzer @ Jan 13 2009, 09:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=11011:date=Jan 12 2009, 04:16 PM:name=Runnys)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Runnys @ Jan 12 2009, 04:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Can someone explain to me how Jim Rice can get in but Andre Dawsom can't?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
honestly, jim rice put together a string of 3 years that is one of the best in modern baseball history. jim rice has the numbers. whats killed him is longevity.
i love dawson, but rice was a much better hitter.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That sounds a lot like Santo.
Jim Rice is just another reason why Santo should be a hall of famer. He had a similar career OPS+ as Rice and did it playing at third base!
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<!--quoteo(post=11185:date=Jan 13 2009, 08:41 AM:name=veryzer)-->QUOTE (veryzer @ Jan 13 2009, 08:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=11182:date=Jan 13 2009, 08:29 AM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Jan 13 2009, 08:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->-Andre Dawson is a borderline HOF player. To put his career in the context of when he played, OPS+ becomes very handy, as it measures his OPS vs. the league average. Dawson's career OPS is 119. Which makes him very good, but sort of diminishes the argument that he towered over guys playing at the same time. Now OPS+ is obviously not the ONLY criteria you would use, and Dawson has many other stats which make him Hall worthy, but leaving him out does not seem to me to be a crime, like leaving Santo out is.
-IMO, Rice was borderline as well. Tom is right that he was awesome for a 3 year period, but that isn't necessarily enough. Dale Murphy was the best player in baseball for at least a couple years, and from 82-87 was pretty much out of his head, while playing a gold glove level Center Field. And there isn't a huge cry for him to make it (maybe there should be?).
-Pete Rose should be banned from baseball for life, because he broke the ONE rule that can ban you from baseball for life. He was aware of that rule when he bet, and deserves the punishment he has received. If a consequence of being banned from baseball is the fact that he is also banned from the HOF, then so be it.
-Not voting for Rickey Henderson for the HOF should mean you are no longer able to vote. Period.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
the difference between rice and murphy is that murphy sucked for quite a while, then was real good for 4 or 5 years, and then sucked again. rice was good, then great, then good, and then great again. he had a renassance after a couple bad years.
in their primes, they were both great, but rice was able to do it again, where murphy wasn't.
in the end, i don't think rice, murphy, or dawson should be in, but of the three, i'd have voted for dawson first, because he maintained a level of goodness for a longer period of time. longevity should count for something.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But Murphy was better than that. In his first full season, as a 22 year old, he hit 23 home runs. He also had a .223 average, so I'll admit it wasn't a very good year, but from age 23 until he turned 32, he never had a year with a below average OPS. And of those years, all but 3 were pretty spectacular. After age 32, he varied from average to bad, until he just completely disappeared. But in his prime, he was an up the middle gold glover, with an awesome bat.
I wish that I believed in Fate. I wish I didn't sleep so late. I used to be carried in the arms of cheerleaders.
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<!--quoteo(post=11192:date=Jan 13 2009, 09:10 AM:name=BT)-->QUOTE (BT @ Jan 13 2009, 09:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=11185:date=Jan 13 2009, 08:41 AM:name=veryzer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (veryzer @ Jan 13 2009, 08:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=11182:date=Jan 13 2009, 08:29 AM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Jan 13 2009, 08:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->-Andre Dawson is a borderline HOF player. To put his career in the context of when he played, OPS+ becomes very handy, as it measures his OPS vs. the league average. Dawson's career OPS is 119. Which makes him very good, but sort of diminishes the argument that he towered over guys playing at the same time. Now OPS+ is obviously not the ONLY criteria you would use, and Dawson has many other stats which make him Hall worthy, but leaving him out does not seem to me to be a crime, like leaving Santo out is.
-IMO, Rice was borderline as well. Tom is right that he was awesome for a 3 year period, but that isn't necessarily enough. Dale Murphy was the best player in baseball for at least a couple years, and from 82-87 was pretty much out of his head, while playing a gold glove level Center Field. And there isn't a huge cry for him to make it (maybe there should be?).
-Pete Rose should be banned from baseball for life, because he broke the ONE rule that can ban you from baseball for life. He was aware of that rule when he bet, and deserves the punishment he has received. If a consequence of being banned from baseball is the fact that he is also banned from the HOF, then so be it.
-Not voting for Rickey Henderson for the HOF should mean you are no longer able to vote. Period.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
the difference between rice and murphy is that murphy sucked for quite a while, then was real good for 4 or 5 years, and then sucked again. rice was good, then great, then good, and then great again. he had a renassance after a couple bad years.
in their primes, they were both great, but rice was able to do it again, where murphy wasn't.
in the end, i don't think rice, murphy, or dawson should be in, but of the three, i'd have voted for dawson first, because he maintained a level of goodness for a longer period of time. longevity should count for something.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But Murphy was better than that. In his first full season, as a 22 year old, he hit 23 home runs. He also had a .223 average, so I'll admit it wasn't a very good year, but from age 23 until he turned 32, he never had a year with a below average OPS. And of those years, all but 3 were pretty spectacular. After age 32, he varied from average to bad, until he just completely disappeared. But in his prime, he was an up the middle gold glover, with an awesome bat.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i can't argue with that. murphy was kind of a typical all or nothing power guy (with a good glove) when he started, then he became a complete player, then he disappeared completely.
Wang.
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Dale Murphy should be in (and I'm not saying that because he's a Mormon -- at least not entirely).
Look at his years from '80-'87. I think he was hurt in '81, but other than that year, he was an MVP candidate (and won the MVP twice) an All-Star, and a 4-time Silver Slugger.
I think Hawk and Murphy are both right on the border, but should eventually get in.
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<!--quoteo(post=11211:date=Jan 13 2009, 10:27 AM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Jan 13 2009, 10:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Dale Murphy should be in (and I'm not saying that because he's a Mormon -- at least not entirely).
Look at his years from '80-'87. I think he was hurt in '81, but other than that year, he was an MVP candidate (and won the MVP twice) an All-Star, and a 4-time Silver Slugger.
I think Hawk and Murphy are both right on the border, but should eventually get in.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
'81 was the strike shortened year and i don't think he should get in. had he maintained his excellence for another 3 or 4 years then maybe.
Wang.
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<!--quoteo(post=11218:date=Jan 13 2009, 10:34 AM:name=veryzer)-->QUOTE (veryzer @ Jan 13 2009, 10:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=11211:date=Jan 13 2009, 10:27 AM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Jan 13 2009, 10:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Dale Murphy should be in (and I'm not saying that because he's a Mormon -- at least not entirely).
Look at his years from '80-'87. I think he was hurt in '81, but other than that year, he was an MVP candidate (and won the MVP twice) an All-Star, and a 4-time Silver Slugger.
I think Hawk and Murphy are both right on the border, but should eventually get in.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
'81 was the strike shortened year and i don't think he should get in. had he maintained his excellence for another 3 or 4 years then maybe.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh yeah. I forgot about the strike year. My bust.
Murphy was one of the best players in the game for a solid 8 years in a row -- and was THE BEST player for 2 of those 8. He's in.
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<!--quoteo(post=11223:date=Jan 13 2009, 10:42 AM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Jan 13 2009, 10:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=11218:date=Jan 13 2009, 10:34 AM:name=veryzer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (veryzer @ Jan 13 2009, 10:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=11211:date=Jan 13 2009, 10:27 AM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Jan 13 2009, 10:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Dale Murphy should be in (and I'm not saying that because he's a Mormon -- at least not entirely).
Look at his years from '80-'87. I think he was hurt in '81, but other than that year, he was an MVP candidate (and won the MVP twice) an All-Star, and a 4-time Silver Slugger.
I think Hawk and Murphy are both right on the border, but should eventually get in.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
'81 was the strike shortened year and i don't think he should get in. had he maintained his excellence for another 3 or 4 years then maybe.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh yeah. I forgot about the strike year. My bust.
Murphy was one of the best players in the game for a solid 8 years in a row -- and was THE BEST player for 2 of those 8. He's in.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
he will never get in. he never comes close and he shouldn't. he isn't deserving and the writers agree. for once they're right. he's out.
Wang.
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<!--quoteo(post=11225:date=Jan 13 2009, 10:43 AM:name=veryzer)-->QUOTE (veryzer @ Jan 13 2009, 10:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=11223:date=Jan 13 2009, 10:42 AM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Jan 13 2009, 10:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=11218:date=Jan 13 2009, 10:34 AM:name=veryzer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (veryzer @ Jan 13 2009, 10:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=11211:date=Jan 13 2009, 10:27 AM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Jan 13 2009, 10:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Dale Murphy should be in (and I'm not saying that because he's a Mormon -- at least not entirely).
Look at his years from '80-'87. I think he was hurt in '81, but other than that year, he was an MVP candidate (and won the MVP twice) an All-Star, and a 4-time Silver Slugger.
I think Hawk and Murphy are both right on the border, but should eventually get in.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
'81 was the strike shortened year and i don't think he should get in. had he maintained his excellence for another 3 or 4 years then maybe.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh yeah. I forgot about the strike year. My bust.
Murphy was one of the best players in the game for a solid 8 years in a row -- and was THE BEST player for 2 of those 8. He's in.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
he will never get in. he never comes close and he shouldn't. he isn't deserving and the writers agree. for once they're right. he's out.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, we all have different opinions about what a Hall of Famer should be. Two-time MVP, 7-time All-Star, 4-time Silver Slugger, all with solid defense and a great ambassador for the game. That's a Hall-of-Famer in my book. Plus, in 5 of his non All-Star seasons, he averaged over 20 homers. So, 7 All-Star years, 2 MVP years, and 5 additional seasons with over 20 homers. Yeah...he's in.
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<!--quoteo(post=11227:date=Jan 13 2009, 10:50 AM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Jan 13 2009, 10:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=11225:date=Jan 13 2009, 10:43 AM:name=veryzer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (veryzer @ Jan 13 2009, 10:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=11223:date=Jan 13 2009, 10:42 AM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Jan 13 2009, 10:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=11218:date=Jan 13 2009, 10:34 AM:name=veryzer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (veryzer @ Jan 13 2009, 10:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=11211:date=Jan 13 2009, 10:27 AM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Jan 13 2009, 10:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Dale Murphy should be in (and I'm not saying that because he's a Mormon -- at least not entirely).
Look at his years from '80-'87. I think he was hurt in '81, but other than that year, he was an MVP candidate (and won the MVP twice) an All-Star, and a 4-time Silver Slugger.
I think Hawk and Murphy are both right on the border, but should eventually get in.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
'81 was the strike shortened year and i don't think he should get in. had he maintained his excellence for another 3 or 4 years then maybe.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh yeah. I forgot about the strike year. My bust.
Murphy was one of the best players in the game for a solid 8 years in a row -- and was THE BEST player for 2 of those 8. He's in.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
he will never get in. he never comes close and he shouldn't. he isn't deserving and the writers agree. for once they're right. he's out.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, we all have different opinions about what a Hall of Famer should be. Two-time MVP, 7-time All-Star, 4-time Silver Slugger, all with solid defense and a great ambassador for the game. That's a Hall-of-Famer in my book. Plus, in 5 of his non All-Star seasons, he averaged over 20 homers. So, 7 All-Star years, 2 MVP years, and 5 additional seasons with over 20 homers. Yeah...he's in.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
outside of those 5 years, he was average. he's out. history will back that up.
Wang.
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<!--quoteo(post=11229:date=Jan 13 2009, 10:52 AM:name=veryzer)-->QUOTE (veryzer @ Jan 13 2009, 10:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=11227:date=Jan 13 2009, 10:50 AM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Jan 13 2009, 10:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=11225:date=Jan 13 2009, 10:43 AM:name=veryzer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (veryzer @ Jan 13 2009, 10:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=11223:date=Jan 13 2009, 10:42 AM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Jan 13 2009, 10:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=11218:date=Jan 13 2009, 10:34 AM:name=veryzer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (veryzer @ Jan 13 2009, 10:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=11211:date=Jan 13 2009, 10:27 AM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Jan 13 2009, 10:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Dale Murphy should be in (and I'm not saying that because he's a Mormon -- at least not entirely).
Look at his years from '80-'87. I think he was hurt in '81, but other than that year, he was an MVP candidate (and won the MVP twice) an All-Star, and a 4-time Silver Slugger.
I think Hawk and Murphy are both right on the border, but should eventually get in.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
'81 was the strike shortened year and i don't think he should get in. had he maintained his excellence for another 3 or 4 years then maybe.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh yeah. I forgot about the strike year. My bust.
Murphy was one of the best players in the game for a solid 8 years in a row -- and was THE BEST player for 2 of those 8. He's in.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
he will never get in. he never comes close and he shouldn't. he isn't deserving and the writers agree. for once they're right. he's out.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, we all have different opinions about what a Hall of Famer should be. Two-time MVP, 7-time All-Star, 4-time Silver Slugger, all with solid defense and a great ambassador for the game. That's a Hall-of-Famer in my book. Plus, in 5 of his non All-Star seasons, he averaged over 20 homers. So, 7 All-Star years, 2 MVP years, and 5 additional seasons with over 20 homers. Yeah...he's in.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
outside of those 5 years, he was average. he's out. history will back that up.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So...7 amazing years, 5 good years, and the rest average and he's out? Wow. Based on that criteria, you want like 10 players, total, in the Hall of Fame. You're the white Joe Morgan.
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<!--quoteo(post=11231:date=Jan 13 2009, 10:55 AM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Jan 13 2009, 10:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=11229:date=Jan 13 2009, 10:52 AM:name=veryzer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (veryzer @ Jan 13 2009, 10:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=11227:date=Jan 13 2009, 10:50 AM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Jan 13 2009, 10:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=11225:date=Jan 13 2009, 10:43 AM:name=veryzer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (veryzer @ Jan 13 2009, 10:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=11223:date=Jan 13 2009, 10:42 AM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Jan 13 2009, 10:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=11218:date=Jan 13 2009, 10:34 AM:name=veryzer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (veryzer @ Jan 13 2009, 10:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=11211:date=Jan 13 2009, 10:27 AM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Jan 13 2009, 10:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Dale Murphy should be in (and I'm not saying that because he's a Mormon -- at least not entirely).
Look at his years from '80-'87. I think he was hurt in '81, but other than that year, he was an MVP candidate (and won the MVP twice) an All-Star, and a 4-time Silver Slugger.
I think Hawk and Murphy are both right on the border, but should eventually get in.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
'81 was the strike shortened year and i don't think he should get in. had he maintained his excellence for another 3 or 4 years then maybe.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh yeah. I forgot about the strike year. My bust.
Murphy was one of the best players in the game for a solid 8 years in a row -- and was THE BEST player for 2 of those 8. He's in.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
he will never get in. he never comes close and he shouldn't. he isn't deserving and the writers agree. for once they're right. he's out.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, we all have different opinions about what a Hall of Famer should be. Two-time MVP, 7-time All-Star, 4-time Silver Slugger, all with solid defense and a great ambassador for the game. That's a Hall-of-Famer in my book. Plus, in 5 of his non All-Star seasons, he averaged over 20 homers. So, 7 All-Star years, 2 MVP years, and 5 additional seasons with over 20 homers. Yeah...he's in.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
outside of those 5 years, he was average. he's out. history will back that up.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So...7 amazing years, 5 good years, and the rest average and he's out? Wow. Based on that criteria, you want like 10 players, total, in the Hall of Fame. You're the white Joe Morgan.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1/3 or his career was awesome. The other 2/3...not so much. I guy can't be in if they aren't amazing for a majority of their career.
If Angelo had picked McClellin, I would have been expecting to hear by training camp that kid has stage 4 cancer, is actually 5'2" 142 lbs, is a chick who played in a 7 - 0 defensive scheme who only rotated in on downs which were 3 and 34 yds + so is not expecting to play a down in the NFL until the sex change is complete and she puts on another 100 lbs. + but this is Emery's first pick so he'll get a pass with a bit of questioning. - 1060Ivy
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<!--quoteo(post=11232:date=Jan 13 2009, 10:58 AM:name=bz)-->QUOTE (bz @ Jan 13 2009, 10:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=11231:date=Jan 13 2009, 10:55 AM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Jan 13 2009, 10:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=11229:date=Jan 13 2009, 10:52 AM:name=veryzer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (veryzer @ Jan 13 2009, 10:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=11227:date=Jan 13 2009, 10:50 AM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Jan 13 2009, 10:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=11225:date=Jan 13 2009, 10:43 AM:name=veryzer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (veryzer @ Jan 13 2009, 10:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=11223:date=Jan 13 2009, 10:42 AM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Jan 13 2009, 10:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=11218:date=Jan 13 2009, 10:34 AM:name=veryzer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (veryzer @ Jan 13 2009, 10:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=11211:date=Jan 13 2009, 10:27 AM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Jan 13 2009, 10:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Dale Murphy should be in (and I'm not saying that because he's a Mormon -- at least not entirely).
Look at his years from '80-'87. I think he was hurt in '81, but other than that year, he was an MVP candidate (and won the MVP twice) an All-Star, and a 4-time Silver Slugger.
I think Hawk and Murphy are both right on the border, but should eventually get in.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
'81 was the strike shortened year and i don't think he should get in. had he maintained his excellence for another 3 or 4 years then maybe.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh yeah. I forgot about the strike year. My bust.
Murphy was one of the best players in the game for a solid 8 years in a row -- and was THE BEST player for 2 of those 8. He's in.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
he will never get in. he never comes close and he shouldn't. he isn't deserving and the writers agree. for once they're right. he's out.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, we all have different opinions about what a Hall of Famer should be. Two-time MVP, 7-time All-Star, 4-time Silver Slugger, all with solid defense and a great ambassador for the game. That's a Hall-of-Famer in my book. Plus, in 5 of his non All-Star seasons, he averaged over 20 homers. So, 7 All-Star years, 2 MVP years, and 5 additional seasons with over 20 homers. Yeah...he's in.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
outside of those 5 years, he was average. he's out. history will back that up.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So...7 amazing years, 5 good years, and the rest average and he's out? Wow. Based on that criteria, you want like 10 players, total, in the Hall of Fame. You're the white Joe Morgan.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1/3 or his career was awesome. The other 2/3...not so much. I guy can't be in if they aren't amazing for a majority of their career.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Is Ron Santo a Hall of Famer? Look at their stats, their All-Star appearances, their MVP voting.
If Santo is in, Murphy is in.
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It also sounds as though a lot of voters turned in empty ballots or didn't send them back at all. Maybe some of them just don't care to vote or are too old or whatever and that's why no one will ever be inducted unanimously.
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And, it's just my opinion, but Murphy had 5 really good seasons, but seemed to tail off really badly for his final 5-6 years. Just seems like there aren't too many HOFs with track records like that. I always remember thinking he was a very good player, but never a star.
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