<!--quoteo(post=11035:date=Jan 12 2009, 04:05 PM:name=cigar)-->QUOTE (cigar @ Jan 12 2009, 04:05 PM)
<{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Anybody that thinks Andre Dawson does not belong in the HOF does not know shit about baseball. It is simple as that.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yep, Rosenthal wrote a great article about it. I don't care i it was already posted and probably by me, but it needs to be seen again. And there's a couple points that me and some others have made about guys like Dunn and why walking isn't what you want your middle of the order hitters doing in some instances.
<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->I have the utmost respect for the guy, but I just can't do it. That .323 on-base percentage ... it would be lower than all but five Hall of Famers — Bill Mazeroski, Joe Tinker, Luis Aparicio, Rabbit Maranville and Brooks Robinson. And none of them went in for their bats.
-- Joe Posnanski, SI.com
... that career .323 on-base percentage really, really bothers me. In that MVP year in '87, he tallied a .328 on-base percentage. Yeesh. Yes, he was highly respected for the way he played the game, but I'm no longer comfortable including him among the elite.
-- Ken Davidoff, Newsday
Ridiculous.
-- Andre Dawson
I'm with Andre.
Posnanski and Davidoff are two of my favorite writers. Their point on Dawson is not unreasonable. But it is wrong.
Failing to vote for Dawson for the Hall of Fame because of his low career on-base percentage is like criticizing an old comedian for being politically incorrect.
Dawson should be judged by the standards of his era, not by the standards of today. Yes, I wish his OBP had been higher, but I vote for him for the Hall with enthusiasm.
This is a player who finished with 438 homers, 314 stolen bases and nearly 2,800 hits, a player who won National League Rookie of the Year in 1977, Most Valuable Player in 1987 and eight Gold Gloves.
And his OBP is the problem?
"To me, it's a ridiculous statistic," Dawson said. "It's no indication of the big picture.
"There was a time when I was voted by my peers as the best player in the game. You're talking about a four- or five-tool player, not just one aspect of the game.
"I played both offense and defense. Some players are in the Hall of Fame just because of what they did defensively."
In his heart, Dawson surely knows that OBP is not ridiculous; quite the contrary, it's actually one of the most meaningful offensive measures.
But teams did not emphasize the statistic as heavily during Dawson's 21-year career as they do today — at least not for middle-of-the-order hitters such as "The Hawk."
Consider this: The on-base percentage in the National League last season was .331. In both 1999 and 2000, perhaps the height of the Steroid Era, it was .342.
Yet from 1982 to '86, the NL OBP ranged from .319 to .322. In '87, a season of juiced offense, Dawson's .328 mark was the league average. Now consider the figures from 1988 to '92: .310, .312, .321, .317, .315.
<b>"There are guys that get on base and guys that drive 'em in. Andre Dawson, we wanted him to be an RBI guy," said Buck Rodgers, who managed Dawson with the Expos in 1985-86. "We didn't want him up there taking pitches a quarter-inch inside or a quarter-inch outside. We wanted him hacking. If the ball was a little up, go ahead."
So Dawson did.
"I would have taken more pitches, worked the count more if the emphasis was getting on base," he said. "I was a different type of player than that. It was emphasized very early on: 'We want you to swing the bat. We want you to drive in runs.'"</b>
Of course, aggressive mindsets and high on-base percentages need not be mutually exclusive. Numerous sluggers from Dawson's era — not to mention previous eras — took the same approach and produced better OBPs.
Ted Williams is the post-1900 leader at .482, followed by Babe Ruth at .474 and Lou Gehrig at .447. Hardly anyone preached OBP during their heydays. But as great hitters, they got on base at incredible rates.
Among more recently elected Hall of Famers, Eddie Murray was at .359, Reggie Jackson .356 and Dave Winfield .353 — OBPs that would not rank them among the top 50 active players.
Meanwhile, Ryne Sandberg was at .344, Robin Yount .342, Cal Ripken .340 and Gary Carter .335 — not that much better than Dawson.
As up-the-middle defenders, Sandberg and Co. were held to different standards. Ripken, the game's all-time Iron Man, is an entirely different category. But few even mentioned OBP when discussing the Hall of Fame candidacies of those players.
My strong hunch is that Dawson would have posted an OBP of at least .350 if his managers had made it a greater point of emphasis. And if he had been at .350 — the "if" game, I know — his detractors would have had very little negative to say about his career.
Gene Michael, the Cubs' manager in Dawson's MVP season, acknowledges that Dawson wasn't the most patient hitter. But like Vladimir Guerrero, he had, in Michael's opinion, "a lot of range with his bat," enabling him to reach more pitches.
Of course, Guerrero's career OBP is an impressive .389, in part because his career batting average is .323. OBP rises and falls with BA, and the latter stat is partly influenced by luck and health. Dawson had chronic knee pain, particularly toward the end of his career.
Using injuries as an excuse — OK, that's another slippery slope. And as is always the case when supporting a borderline Hall of Fame candidate, my argument is not without other holes.
One reason I do not vote for Dale Murphy is his career .265 batting average. Well, his career OBP was .346 — 23 points higher than Dawson's.
The only reason I do not vote for Jack Morris is his career 3.90 ERA. Morris' supporters contend that he was concerned more with wins, and pitched to the score.
In both of those cases, my fear is lowering the Hall's standards. And I'm fully aware that electing Dawson with his .323 career OBP would do the same.
Still, if Dawson's OBP was average for his era, or even a touch below, it was the only part of his game that met that description.
The first thing Michael mentioned when I called him was Dawson's defense, his speed in the outfield and strong, accurate arm.
The second thing Michael mentioned was the reverence Dawson evoked from other players — and yes, voters are instructed to consider character, integrity and sportsmanship.
"Nobody got more respect," Michael said. "Everyone was in awe when Andre was around."
Dawson was a model player of the pre-steroid era, capable of doing virtually anything on the field. He remains a model citizen in his present role as a special assistant to the president with the Marlins.
People want to talk about his OBP? Please, someone call off the sabermetric police. And soon.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Link(Forget OBP, Dawson's A Hall Of Famer, Fox Sports)
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