Cubs trade Pie

[Brock]

<!--quoteo(post=12318:date=Jan 18 2009, 05:25 PM:name=Clapp)-->QUOTE (Clapp @ Jan 18 2009, 05:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=12315:date=Jan 18 2009, 04:12 PM:name=Brock)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Brock @ Jan 18 2009, 04:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=12313:date=Jan 18 2009, 04:53 PM:name=Fella)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fella @ Jan 18 2009, 04:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->The Orioles are a team that's able to be patient with these guys and wait out the growing pains. The Cubs couldn't and with Pie out of options he had to go.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I see no reason why the Cubs could have not signed Gathright, let Pie stay on the bench for this season, and give him one more chance to see if he could figure it all out. Gathright doesn't do anything that Pie couldn't have done on our bench.
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I'd rather have Gathright personally. We're just talking about a PR guy and 2-3 times a month starter. Plus, how the hell would Pie get better that way? We have Fuk for a few more seasons, whether we like it or not, so Pie has nowhere to play.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

He couldn't really get any worse and have any lower value than he has right now. The possible (however unlikely it is) upside with Pie outweighs whatever Gathright is going to give us, which I don't think is going to be much at all.

This could be shaping up to be a pretty piss-poor bench, by the way, with Miles, Gathright, and Bako/Hill/whoever our backup catcher is.

[Clapp]

<!--quoteo(post=12319:date=Jan 18 2009, 04:33 PM:name=Brock)-->QUOTE (Brock @ Jan 18 2009, 04:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=12318:date=Jan 18 2009, 05:25 PM:name=Clapp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Clapp @ Jan 18 2009, 05:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=12315:date=Jan 18 2009, 04:12 PM:name=Brock)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Brock @ Jan 18 2009, 04:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=12313:date=Jan 18 2009, 04:53 PM:name=Fella)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fella @ Jan 18 2009, 04:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->The Orioles are a team that's able to be patient with these guys and wait out the growing pains. The Cubs couldn't and with Pie out of options he had to go.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I see no reason why the Cubs could have not signed Gathright, let Pie stay on the bench for this season, and give him one more chance to see if he could figure it all out. Gathright doesn't do anything that Pie couldn't have done on our bench.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd rather have Gathright personally. We're just talking about a PR guy and 2-3 times a month starter. Plus, how the hell would Pie get better that way? We have Fuk for a few more seasons, whether we like it or not, so Pie has nowhere to play.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

He couldn't really get any worse and have any lower value than he has right now. The possible (however unlikely it is) upside with Pie outweighs whatever Gathright is going to give us, which I don't think is going to be much at all.

This could be shaping up to be a pretty piss-poor bench, by the way, with Miles, Gathright, and Bako/Hill/whoever our backup catcher is.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He's not going to get better riding the bench though which is what he would've done. All that would do is make him worse. If he could still go to Iowa, we wouldn't have dealt him.

As for the bench, it would've been worse with Pie on it. Miles is fine. A backup catcher is a backup catcher and they're not going to be used unless the rest of the bench has been anyway. We'll still have Hoffpauir, and maybe somebody like Aurilia. If it's really a problem come July which I don't expect it to be, Hendry will add another bat. We won't have Pie and Cedeno as a part of it like we did at times last year. I don't see how it could be worse, and Ward was crap last year.

[AlexV]

<!--quoteo(post=12315:date=Jan 18 2009, 06:12 PM:name=Brock)-->QUOTE (Brock @ Jan 18 2009, 06:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=12313:date=Jan 18 2009, 04:53 PM:name=Fella)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fella @ Jan 18 2009, 04:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->The Orioles are a team that's able to be patient with these guys and wait out the growing pains. The Cubs couldn't and with Pie out of options he had to go.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I see no reason why the Cubs could have not signed Gathright, let Pie stay on the bench for this season, and give him one more chance to see if he could figure it all out. Gathright doesn't do anything that Pie couldn't have done on our bench.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Because it is Olson who the Padres want, not Pie. This makes a lot of sense to me, Hendry's going hard after peavy.

[Brock]

<!--quoteo(post=12322:date=Jan 18 2009, 05:41 PM:name=Clapp)-->QUOTE (Clapp @ Jan 18 2009, 05:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=12319:date=Jan 18 2009, 04:33 PM:name=Brock)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Brock @ Jan 18 2009, 04:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=12318:date=Jan 18 2009, 05:25 PM:name=Clapp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Clapp @ Jan 18 2009, 05:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=12315:date=Jan 18 2009, 04:12 PM:name=Brock)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Brock @ Jan 18 2009, 04:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=12313:date=Jan 18 2009, 04:53 PM:name=Fella)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fella @ Jan 18 2009, 04:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->The Orioles are a team that's able to be patient with these guys and wait out the growing pains. The Cubs couldn't and with Pie out of options he had to go.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I see no reason why the Cubs could have not signed Gathright, let Pie stay on the bench for this season, and give him one more chance to see if he could figure it all out. Gathright doesn't do anything that Pie couldn't have done on our bench.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd rather have Gathright personally. We're just talking about a PR guy and 2-3 times a month starter. Plus, how the hell would Pie get better that way? We have Fuk for a few more seasons, whether we like it or not, so Pie has nowhere to play.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

He couldn't really get any worse and have any lower value than he has right now. The possible (however unlikely it is) upside with Pie outweighs whatever Gathright is going to give us, which I don't think is going to be much at all.

This could be shaping up to be a pretty piss-poor bench, by the way, with Miles, Gathright, and Bako/Hill/whoever our backup catcher is.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He's not going to get better riding the bench though which is what he would've done. All that would do is make him worse. If he could still go to Iowa, we wouldn't have dealt him.

As for the bench, it would've been worse with Pie on it. Miles is fine. A backup catcher is a backup catcher and they're not going to be used unless the rest of the bench has been anyway. We'll still have Hoffpauir, and maybe somebody like Aurilia. If it's really a problem come July which I don't expect it to be, Hendry will add another bat. We won't have Pie and Cedeno as a part of it like we did at times last year. I don't see how it could be worse, and Ward was crap last year.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

With all the times I've seen you say that Miles is fine, I should really believe it by now. Unfortunately I still think he's horseshit.

I guess I can buy what you say about Pie, but either way, like I alluded to before, Pie being a failure as a Cub again reflects poorly on the state of our minor league system, which reflects poorly on Hendry as a GM.

[Brock]

<!--quoteo(post=12324:date=Jan 18 2009, 06:18 PM:name=AlexV)-->QUOTE (AlexV @ Jan 18 2009, 06:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=12315:date=Jan 18 2009, 06:12 PM:name=Brock)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Brock @ Jan 18 2009, 06:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=12313:date=Jan 18 2009, 04:53 PM:name=Fella)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fella @ Jan 18 2009, 04:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->The Orioles are a team that's able to be patient with these guys and wait out the growing pains. The Cubs couldn't and with Pie out of options he had to go.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I see no reason why the Cubs could have not signed Gathright, let Pie stay on the bench for this season, and give him one more chance to see if he could figure it all out. Gathright doesn't do anything that Pie couldn't have done on our bench.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Because it is Olson who the Padres want, not Pie. This makes a lot of sense to me, Hendry's going hard after peavy.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Getting Peavy will be the only way this turns out positive for the Cubs. Hopefully it happens, but I'm not counting on it.

[AlexV]

<!--quoteo(post=12326:date=Jan 18 2009, 07:21 PM:name=Brock)-->QUOTE (Brock @ Jan 18 2009, 07:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=12324:date=Jan 18 2009, 06:18 PM:name=AlexV)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AlexV @ Jan 18 2009, 06:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=12315:date=Jan 18 2009, 06:12 PM:name=Brock)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Brock @ Jan 18 2009, 06:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=12313:date=Jan 18 2009, 04:53 PM:name=Fella)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fella @ Jan 18 2009, 04:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->The Orioles are a team that's able to be patient with these guys and wait out the growing pains. The Cubs couldn't and with Pie out of options he had to go.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I see no reason why the Cubs could have not signed Gathright, let Pie stay on the bench for this season, and give him one more chance to see if he could figure it all out. Gathright doesn't do anything that Pie couldn't have done on our bench.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Because it is Olson who the Padres want, not Pie. This makes a lot of sense to me, Hendry's going hard after peavy.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Getting Peavy will be the only way this turns out positive for the Cubs. Hopefully it happens, but I'm not counting on it.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Yep, at the begining of the offseason Hendry said something like "You can be sure that we'll put a better team on the field than last year". I can't see that happening if we don't get Peavy, Roberts, or someone of that caliber.

[AlexV]

Look, this is why it makes so much sense to me:

Padres want: pitching prospects.
Peavy to Cubs didn't happen because: lack of pitching prospects from the Cubs.
DeRosa traded for: 3 pitching prospects.
Pie traded for: 2 pitching prospects (one of them wanted by the Padres before).

[Clapp]

<!--quoteo(post=12325:date=Jan 18 2009, 05:19 PM:name=Brock)-->QUOTE (Brock @ Jan 18 2009, 05:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=12322:date=Jan 18 2009, 05:41 PM:name=Clapp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Clapp @ Jan 18 2009, 05:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=12319:date=Jan 18 2009, 04:33 PM:name=Brock)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Brock @ Jan 18 2009, 04:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=12318:date=Jan 18 2009, 05:25 PM:name=Clapp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Clapp @ Jan 18 2009, 05:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=12315:date=Jan 18 2009, 04:12 PM:name=Brock)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Brock @ Jan 18 2009, 04:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=12313:date=Jan 18 2009, 04:53 PM:name=Fella)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fella @ Jan 18 2009, 04:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->The Orioles are a team that's able to be patient with these guys and wait out the growing pains. The Cubs couldn't and with Pie out of options he had to go.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I see no reason why the Cubs could have not signed Gathright, let Pie stay on the bench for this season, and give him one more chance to see if he could figure it all out. Gathright doesn't do anything that Pie couldn't have done on our bench.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd rather have Gathright personally. We're just talking about a PR guy and 2-3 times a month starter. Plus, how the hell would Pie get better that way? We have Fuk for a few more seasons, whether we like it or not, so Pie has nowhere to play.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

He couldn't really get any worse and have any lower value than he has right now. The possible (however unlikely it is) upside with Pie outweighs whatever Gathright is going to give us, which I don't think is going to be much at all.

This could be shaping up to be a pretty piss-poor bench, by the way, with Miles, Gathright, and Bako/Hill/whoever our backup catcher is.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He's not going to get better riding the bench though which is what he would've done. All that would do is make him worse. If he could still go to Iowa, we wouldn't have dealt him.

As for the bench, it would've been worse with Pie on it. Miles is fine. A backup catcher is a backup catcher and they're not going to be used unless the rest of the bench has been anyway. We'll still have Hoffpauir, and maybe somebody like Aurilia. If it's really a problem come July which I don't expect it to be, Hendry will add another bat. We won't have Pie and Cedeno as a part of it like we did at times last year. I don't see how it could be worse, and Ward was crap last year.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

With all the times I've seen you say that Miles is fine, I should really believe it by now. Unfortunately I still think he's horseshit.

I guess I can buy what you say about Pie, but either way, like I alluded to before, Pie being a failure as a Cub again reflects poorly on the state of our minor league system, which reflects poorly on Hendry as a GM.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't see how Miles is horseshit. We don't need 15 power hitters. We need a couple guys like him and Theriot that put the ball in play and do the little things, rather than all these hit or miss guys. That's been our problem the previous 2 postseasons, when our power hitters slump. You have to have other ways to create runs.

[Ace]

<!--quoteo(post=12330:date=Jan 18 2009, 07:34 PM:name=AlexV)-->QUOTE (AlexV @ Jan 18 2009, 07:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Look, this is why it makes so much sense to me:

Padres want: pitching prospects.
Peavy to Cubs didn't happen because: lack of pitching prospects from the Cubs.
DeRosa traded for: 3 pitching prospects.
Pie traded for: 2 pitching prospects (one of them wanted by the Padres before).<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

That's pretty much exactly what I think.

[Clapp]

<!--quoteo(post=12330:date=Jan 18 2009, 05:34 PM:name=AlexV)-->QUOTE (AlexV @ Jan 18 2009, 05:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Look, this is why it makes so much sense to me:

Padres want: pitching prospects.
Peavy to Cubs didn't happen because: lack of pitching prospects from the Cubs.
DeRosa traded for: 3 pitching prospects.
Pie traded for: 2 pitching prospects (one of them wanted by the Padres before).<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And most importantly, we traded away a guy that does exactly what we need to acquire now, a solid pitcher that's an innings-eater in Marquis.

[Clapp]

Just a random thought while perusing stats and I'm not really into splits like this, but anybody notice Miles' difference between day and night games? It's really eye-opening:

Day:
764 plate appearances, 30 2B, 11 3B, 6 HR, 65 RBI, .316 ba, .352 obp, .415 slg, .767 ops

Night:
149 plate appearences, 51 2B, 3 3B, 10 HR, 105 RBI, .275 ba, .317 obp, .338 slg, .656 ops

Obviously that's a big deal at our park if it holds true.

[Fella]

If Miles can repeat last year then he is an asset, he hit .317, makes contact, gets on base. Another guy like that would be nice, especially as a utility guy.

However he pretty much has to hit .300 to be productive since he doesn't have the speed to steal bases, doesn't have the arm to play SS, doesn't hit many extra base hits and takes very few walks.

Either way, Fontenot needs to be starting most of the time at 2B.

[johnr42]

I can't seem to find a scouting report on Williamson. Does anyone have any idea of his velocity and what other pitches he throws?

[Brock]

<!--quoteo(post=12332:date=Jan 18 2009, 06:38 PM:name=Clapp)-->QUOTE (Clapp @ Jan 18 2009, 06:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=12325:date=Jan 18 2009, 05:19 PM:name=Brock)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Brock @ Jan 18 2009, 05:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=12322:date=Jan 18 2009, 05:41 PM:name=Clapp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Clapp @ Jan 18 2009, 05:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=12319:date=Jan 18 2009, 04:33 PM:name=Brock)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Brock @ Jan 18 2009, 04:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=12318:date=Jan 18 2009, 05:25 PM:name=Clapp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Clapp @ Jan 18 2009, 05:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=12315:date=Jan 18 2009, 04:12 PM:name=Brock)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Brock @ Jan 18 2009, 04:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=12313:date=Jan 18 2009, 04:53 PM:name=Fella)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fella @ Jan 18 2009, 04:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->The Orioles are a team that's able to be patient with these guys and wait out the growing pains. The Cubs couldn't and with Pie out of options he had to go.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I see no reason why the Cubs could have not signed Gathright, let Pie stay on the bench for this season, and give him one more chance to see if he could figure it all out. Gathright doesn't do anything that Pie couldn't have done on our bench.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd rather have Gathright personally. We're just talking about a PR guy and 2-3 times a month starter. Plus, how the hell would Pie get better that way? We have Fuk for a few more seasons, whether we like it or not, so Pie has nowhere to play.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

He couldn't really get any worse and have any lower value than he has right now. The possible (however unlikely it is) upside with Pie outweighs whatever Gathright is going to give us, which I don't think is going to be much at all.

This could be shaping up to be a pretty piss-poor bench, by the way, with Miles, Gathright, and Bako/Hill/whoever our backup catcher is.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He's not going to get better riding the bench though which is what he would've done. All that would do is make him worse. If he could still go to Iowa, we wouldn't have dealt him.

As for the bench, it would've been worse with Pie on it. Miles is fine. A backup catcher is a backup catcher and they're not going to be used unless the rest of the bench has been anyway. We'll still have Hoffpauir, and maybe somebody like Aurilia. If it's really a problem come July which I don't expect it to be, Hendry will add another bat. We won't have Pie and Cedeno as a part of it like we did at times last year. I don't see how it could be worse, and Ward was crap last year.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

With all the times I've seen you say that Miles is fine, I should really believe it by now. Unfortunately I still think he's horseshit.

I guess I can buy what you say about Pie, but either way, like I alluded to before, Pie being a failure as a Cub again reflects poorly on the state of our minor league system, which reflects poorly on Hendry as a GM.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't see how Miles is horseshit. We don't need 15 power hitters. We need a couple guys like him and Theriot that put the ball in play and do the little things, rather than all these hit or miss guys. That's been our problem the previous 2 postseasons, when our power hitters slump. You have to have other ways to create runs.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I guess I have a hard time seeing how a guy with a career line of .289/.329/.364 helps create too many runs. If he puts up a line like he did last year I won't complain but I highly doubt he repeats those numbers.

[Brock]

<!--quoteo(post=12338:date=Jan 18 2009, 07:15 PM:name=Fella)-->QUOTE (Fella @ Jan 18 2009, 07:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->If Miles can repeat last year then he is an asset, he hit .317, makes contact, gets on base. Another guy like that would be nice, especially as a utility guy.

However he pretty much has to hit .300 to be productive since he doesn't have the speed to steal bases, doesn't have the arm to play SS, doesn't hit many extra base hits and takes very few walks.

Either way, Fontenot needs to be starting most of the time at 2B.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

One of my biggest concerns is that Fontenot falls back to earth next season and then 2B becomes a black hole in the lineup.