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So A-Rod admitted that he took roids from 2001-2003....okay, say we throw those numbers out of his totals....he will STILL have HOF numbers without those 3 years and it won't even be close. Without those 3 years he will still likely have 625+ HR's in his career.
Look, it sucks and it drives me nuts that guys like Bonds, A-Rod, and Clemens did this (considering they were all 1st ballot HOFers before they did it). But A-Rod still has 9 years left on his current contract. Even if he just averages 30 HR's a year for the rest of his contract he ends up with more than 660 HR's. I know these guys "cheated", but how can you keep guys out of the HOF that were HOFer's before they cheated?
Can anyone legitimately say that Bonds was NOT a HOFer before he roided? Same thing with Clemens.
I just think it is ridiculous the standard some of these guys are held to compared to other sports. Michael Irvin got elected to the Hall of Fame and he was drug addicted piece of shit that got busted! No one even remembers that Shawn Merriman took steroids, they just talk about how important he is to their team.
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He only sort of kind of admitted it.
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<!--quoteo(post=16942:date=Feb 9 2009, 06:03 PM:name=Runnys)-->QUOTE (Runnys @ Feb 9 2009, 06:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I just think it is ridiculous the standard some of these guys are held to compared to other sports. Michael Irvin got elected to the Hall of Fame and he was drug addicted piece of shit that got busted! No one even remembers that Shawn Merriman took steroids, they just talk about how important he is to their team.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The difference is in the NFL fans want these guys being crazy gladiators that just beat the shit out of each other on the field. People view the NFL like 8 shots of tequila and baseball like a glass of wine. While there's definitely a lot of fans that just want to see home runs and high-scoring games, there's just as many that want to see execution: a sacrifice fly, painting the corners, getting a bunt down, etc. In football we want to see guys get their helmets ripped off, safeties crushing wide receivers going across the middle, or Adrian Peterson laying a stiff arm on Lance Briggs. Baseball's an art to many, whereas football is purely entertainment to most.
Additionally, baseball records are unlike any other records in sports. Do you know what the single season rushing yardage record is or who holds it? Do you know how what the career passing touchdown record is? Who holds the highest QB rating in NFL history? Nobody really cares about these stats. They're treasured in baseball, so when somebody's getting to these records with an advantage past players didn't have, it pisses people off and rightfully so.
We have this historical romantic relationship with the sport that we don't see in other sports. It took place during the two World Wars and gave people something to enjoy at the most tragic of times. It's America's Pastime. It's cracker jack, hot dogs, "Take Me Out To The Ballgame", playing catch with your five-year-old son... and now the most popular players in the game, the ones breaking all of these records we've treasured so much, cheating the game by doing steroids. It's sad.
@TheBlogfines
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I agree w/Fly in that I don't believe anything A-rod says at all. Had the story not broken, he'd still be in the closet. I don't feel bad for him at all, which appeared to me as the underlying motive/message of Gammons' interview - shed some tears, say I was stupid and maybe it'll save the face of baseball, and more importantly, my own face. What a disgrace.
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New here. First time caller, long time listener. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif[/img]
A-Rod isn't sorry because he took steroids, he's sorry because he got caught. There is a big difference between the two. Feel sorry for him? Never. Feel sorry for any of them? Absolutely never. All of them that took part in this disgraced the game we all love. They disgraced the history of the game, they disgraced and tainted the era of the game we all grew up in, and they disgraced the near term future of the game, too.
All of them deserve this one simple thing: *
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Welcome, hPOD! Great first post.
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hPOD...awesome first post, and dead on.
If he had been truly sorry, he'd have come forward before he was outed...bingo...dead, straight-on.
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None of them deserve an asterisk. Not Arod, not Clemens, not even Bonds. There should be no asterisk in any record book ever.
Most of the steroid era guys won't be in the H.O.F, but they should be. I agree with whoevers name I forget on MLB network. The Hall of Fame should be based on era. That means Dale Murphy would get in, as well as the Hawk (not Harrelson), Same goes with the 3 previous names I mentioned. These guys were the best of the roiders, and they should be in the H.O.F.
"I'm not sure I know what ball cheese or crotch rot is, exactly -- or if there is a difference between the two. Don't post photos, please..."
- Butcher
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<!--quoteo(post=17054:date=Feb 10 2009, 10:17 AM:name=Rappster)-->QUOTE (Rappster @ Feb 10 2009, 10:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->hPOD...awesome first post, and dead on.
If he had been truly sorry, he'd have come forward before he was outed...bingo...dead, straight-on.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's just dumb. Can a murderer not be sorry, but also be afraid of facing the consequences?
"I'm not sure I know what ball cheese or crotch rot is, exactly -- or if there is a difference between the two. Don't post photos, please..."
- Butcher
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Who has the authority to put an asterisk next to a baseball stat though? Who owns the record books?
I agree with Fly and Clapp and everyone else who doesn't believe A-Roid is being sincere at all. This is all a media con, and I'm not buying any of it. Everyone who gets caught always says, yes I did it, but it was just that one time. Bullshit.
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<!--quoteo(post=17203:date=Feb 10 2009, 08:34 PM:name=rok)-->QUOTE (rok @ Feb 10 2009, 08:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Who has the authority to put an asterisk next to a baseball stat though? Who owns the record books?
I agree with Fly and Clapp and everyone else who doesn't believe A-Roid is being sincere at all. This is all a media con, and I'm not buying any of it. Everyone who gets caught always says, yes I did it, but it was just that one time. Bullshit.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nobody has the authority, hence no asterisk.
"I'm not sure I know what ball cheese or crotch rot is, exactly -- or if there is a difference between the two. Don't post photos, please..."
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kb said common sense says that griffey didn't do roids. what? he also said that griffey has always been a string bean. what? how naive can you be kb? schilling and griffey were vocal against roids so they didn't do them? i suspect both of them.
Wang.
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<!--quoteo(post=17197:date=Feb 10 2009, 08:23 PM:name=PcB)-->QUOTE (PcB @ Feb 10 2009, 08:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=17054:date=Feb 10 2009, 10:17 AM:name=Rappster)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rappster @ Feb 10 2009, 10:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->hPOD...awesome first post, and dead on.
If he had been truly sorry, he'd have come forward before he was outed...bingo...dead, straight-on.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's just dumb. Can a murderer not be sorry, but also be afraid of facing the consequences?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Really, it's "just dumb?!" While yes, a murderer can be sorry for his actions, he's facing capital punishment or a life sentence for coming forward...these guys are not. You just compared lying/cheating in a pro sport to lying about murder. On this matter, the words apples and oranges comes to mind. In the 80's, when Happy Days went that far, they called it jumping the shark.
As to what you said before, I couldn't disagree with your opinion on the matter more. Allowing cheaters who skewed the 'curve' on what was possible in the game is completely insane. By your rational, we should keep them in the record books and allow them into the HoF despite the fact they <b>artificially</b> inflated their numbers via foreign substances which future generations of players can no longer use. The fact that future/current players can no longer use these same substances, which would be necessary to break these freakish records, is beyond unfair. Next you'll tell me that if someone wants to tape a metal pipe into their boxing gloves, the 20 second knockouts they score every match and their 90-0 record should remain intact after they're caught. Rediculous comparison, I know, but at least it's comparing apples to, uh...slightly bigger apples.
And if nobody has authority to put *'s in the record books, then maybe the commissioner should give someone authority. Comes to my attention that when the Black Sox threw the 1919 series, nobody had the authority to investigate them, either, so they created the commissioner position and gave him the power and authority to clean up baseball, and IIRC, they created that role out of thin air. Let's not forget that they BANNED those 8 men of the 1919 team -- for life -- for throwing the world series, and for good measure, they were banned from the HoF, too. I think we can do the same in this case when it comes to baseball and the use of illegal performance enhancing narcotics. You see, I say that so people can't bust out the very weak and often used, "well, it wasn't banned from baseball at the time", argument. The fact that they were considered illegal drugs by federal standards means they were, in essence, banned from baseball, too. Here, I'll jump the shark with my next example, just to drive my previous point home: The rulebook probably doesn't say, in specific, that a player can't run the bases wielding a handgun, shooting anyone in his path that tries to stop him from reaching home plate, either. But since that would be murder, hence illegal, I'll go out on a limb here and guess that this would also be considered against the rules. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif[/img]
I don't think these cheaters belong in the HoF, nor in any record book, and I'm sure that others out there share in that opinion. Also, they made millions upon millions of dollars through this, so let's not act like they're the poor victims here. The only ones who really lost in this were the fans, since their inflated numbers meant inflated ticket prices to cover their inflated salaries. They shit on everything we hold dear about this game, tainted the entire era in which I grew up, and for that, they can suck a fuck.
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Exactly hPod, plus, how sorry can Arod truly be when MLB can't take away all the money he's made and the $238m that he has remaining on his contract? He's laughing all the way to the bank.
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