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<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->So it's not true that there's players out there that are more valuable than their stats over a whole season indicate them to be?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, with Miles we sure better hope that is true, because I certainly wouldn't want him to be LESS valuable than a career .693 OPS guy.
<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->Miles can play just about anywhere<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sure, but does he play any positions well? Versatility doesn't mean too much to me if he's below average defensively at most positions.
<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->he'll play his ass off, take out guys on double plays, make contact consistently, etc. He'll do things each game to help us win each game that don't all show up in the box score.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
These are the things? I would hope he plays hard, just like I hope everyone on the team plays hard. Taking out guys on double plays? Ok. Making contact? Ok, but that shows up in the box score under the strikeout column.
I don't mean to come off like an ass, but I really don't see him as much of a player. Hopefully I'm wrong.
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I think Miles is gonna bug the shit outta me, much like Theriot bugs the shit outta me.
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<!--quoteo(post=19121:date=Feb 19 2009, 03:26 PM:name=Brock)-->QUOTE (Brock @ Feb 19 2009, 03:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <!--quotec-->So it's not true that there's players out there that are more valuable than their stats over a whole season indicate them to be?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, with Miles we sure better hope that is true, because I certainly wouldn't want him to be LESS valuable than a career .693 OPS guy.
<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->Miles can play just about anywhere<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sure, but does he play any positions well? Versatility doesn't mean too much to me if he's below average defensively at most positions.
<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->he'll play his ass off, take out guys on double plays, make contact consistently, etc. He'll do things each game to help us win each game that don't all show up in the box score.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
These are the things? I would hope he plays hard, just like I hope everyone on the team plays hard. Taking out guys on double plays? Ok. Making contact? Ok, but that shows up in the box score under the strikeout column.
I don't mean to come off like an ass, but I really don't see him as much of a player. Hopefully I'm wrong.
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Again, please throw away OPS, SLG, all that crap with this guy. We're going to have 6-7(if Fuk has a nice year) other guys in the lineup that all have some power. On another team his lack of power would probably bother me more, but that's not something we need.
He's very good at second base, he's like Theriot at SS, and he can fill in adequately at other positions for a few games. He's not going to gun anybody down at the plate from left field, but he'll make the routine plays and give somebody like Alf a day off every once in awhile. He's not going to kill us anywhere defensively.
Those are some of the things, and not everybody on the team plays their asses off everyday, not even close. We won a game last year because of taking a guy out at 2nd base on a double play(it was Reed I believe). Little things like that win games here and there that don't show up in the box scores. A lot of the little things win games in the playoffs rather than waiting around for the 3-run homer which is going to be much more difficult to hit with top notch pitchers bringing out the best of their game.
Making contact does NOT show up in the box score under "strikeout". You can't get runs home on strikeouts, you can't move guys to third base on strikeouts, errors don't happen with strikeouts. Things happen when you put the ball in play.
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<!--quoteo(post=19112:date=Feb 19 2009, 04:12 PM:name=Clapp)-->QUOTE (Clapp @ Feb 19 2009, 04:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=19101:date=Feb 19 2009, 02:59 PM:name=Brock)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Brock @ Feb 19 2009, 02:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=19094:date=Feb 19 2009, 03:43 PM:name=Clapp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Clapp @ Feb 19 2009, 03:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=19089:date=Feb 19 2009, 02:32 PM:name=Brock)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Brock @ Feb 19 2009, 02:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=19069:date=Feb 19 2009, 02:52 PM:name=Clapp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Clapp @ Feb 19 2009, 02:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
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<!--coloro:#0000FF--> <!--/coloro-->Miles can play just about anywhere (but is only effective at 2B), he'll get 1-2 hits a game (if he does that, he will be lauded as one of the greatest players of all time, and he'll break DiMaggio's hitting streak record; even 1.5 hits per game would equal 244 in a season, something no Cub has ever done), he gives Lou versatility for hit and runs (hit and runs, like bunting, are low-percentage plays. Exciting, yes. Do I enjoy them when the work? I love 'em. But low-percentage), he's a switch-hitter (good), he'll play his ass off (love it), take out guys on double plays (this is a good thing, true, but he's built like a place-kicker, so it's debatable as to how much damage he'll do), make contact consistently( productive outs? the idea that this is a good thing is a fallacy. How is flying out better than striking out? It isn't, except in HIGHLY specific situations. Miles will make a whole lot of outs, like he always does.) He'll do things each game to help us win each game that don't all show up in the box score (like hustling to first on a ground-out, slapping guys on the ass when they score...how else?). Whereas Alf (a significantly better player) for example going to go into his stretch where he's the best player on the planet for a month, but then can't hit water if he fell off boat the next, you know what you're getting with this guy every single day (a mediocre ballplayer who is inferior to Mark DeRosa). He's going to be a very valuable part of this team (vague generality, not supported by facts).<!--colorc-->
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Clapp, I can't let that go by. Above, I've commented on the phrases that are highly questionable or outright falsehoods.
There's nothing better than to realize that the good things about youth don't end with youth itself. It's a matter of realizing that life can be renewed every day you get out of bed without baggage. It's tough to get there, but it's better than the dark thoughts. -Lance
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Clapp is right and everyone else is wrong.
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Things that Miles will do that won't show up in the box score:
1. Mess with the pitcher's head.
2. Be a good clubhouse guy.
3. Keep everyone "loose."
4. Be the first one to hi-five Ramirez after a homer.
5. Hustle.
6. Play unselfishly.
7. Help Fontenot and Theriot feel a little less like Munchkins in the Land of the Giants.
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I can see what Clapp is saying, We'll just have to see what happens. All we can do is give Miles a chance at this point. But for those who don't like Theriot, I don't think you'll ever like Miles either.
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<!--quoteo(post=19134:date=Feb 19 2009, 04:05 PM:name=jeffy777)-->QUOTE (jeffy777 @ Feb 19 2009, 04:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I can see what Clapp is saying, We'll just have to see what happens. All we can do is give Miles a chance at this point. But for those who don't like Theriot, I don't think you'll ever like Miles either.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'll especially hate it when Miles and Theriot are both on the field at the same time.
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Miles was loved in St. Louis and it's mostly because of everything Clapp's listed about him. The only reason he's not there still is because the Cubs offered him a little more money. Now the Cardinals don't have a 2nd baseman unless they think Skip can do it or someone like Barden or Ryan. If anything, we weakened a team that hopes to contend in the Central, and if you've seen some of their 2nd basemen play, you know Miles is a loss for them. Miles will be the last thing we have to worry about this season.
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Let's cut to the chase. Miles was loved in St. Louis because people like little white guys who try really hard.
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I have watched Miles a lot the last couple of years. I here to tell you right now he is not that damn bad. He of course is not superstar or even a DeRosa by any means but he will help us win some games. He is very smart and makes all the plays in the field. I think people will be pleasantly surprised with him. Besides we have Bradley who is going to equal and more than likely surpass DeRosa's production anyway.
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<!--quoteo(post=19126:date=Feb 19 2009, 03:39 PM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ Feb 19 2009, 03:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=19112:date=Feb 19 2009, 04:12 PM:name=Clapp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Clapp @ Feb 19 2009, 04:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=19101:date=Feb 19 2009, 02:59 PM:name=Brock)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Brock @ Feb 19 2009, 02:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=19094:date=Feb 19 2009, 03:43 PM:name=Clapp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Clapp @ Feb 19 2009, 03:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=19089:date=Feb 19 2009, 02:32 PM:name=Brock)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Brock @ Feb 19 2009, 02:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=19069:date=Feb 19 2009, 02:52 PM:name=Clapp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Clapp @ Feb 19 2009, 02:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
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<!--coloro:#0000FF--> <!--/coloro-->Miles can play just about anywhere (but is only effective at 2B), he'll get 1-2 hits a game (if he does that, he will be lauded as one of the greatest players of all time, and he'll break DiMaggio's hitting streak record; even 1.5 hits per game would equal 244 in a season, something no Cub has ever done), he gives Lou versatility for hit and runs (hit and runs, like bunting, are low-percentage plays. Exciting, yes. Do I enjoy them when the work? I love 'em. But low-percentage), he's a switch-hitter (good), he'll play his ass off (love it), take out guys on double plays (this is a good thing, true, but he's built like a place-kicker, so it's debatable as to how much damage he'll do), make contact consistently( productive outs? the idea that this is a good thing is a fallacy. How is flying out better than striking out? It isn't, except in HIGHLY specific situations. Miles will make a whole lot of outs, like he always does.) He'll do things each game to help us win each game that don't all show up in the box score (like hustling to first on a ground-out, slapping guys on the ass when they score...how else?). Whereas Alf (a significantly better player) for example going to go into his stretch where he's the best player on the planet for a month, but then can't hit water if he fell off boat the next, you know what you're getting with this guy every single day (a mediocre ballplayer who is inferior to Mark DeRosa). He's going to be a very valuable part of this team (vague generality, not supported by facts).<!--colorc-->
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Clapp, I can't let that go by. Above, I've commented on the phrases that are highly questionable or outright falsehoods.
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[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif[/img]
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<!--quoteo(post=19069:date=Feb 19 2009, 03:52 PM:name=Clapp)-->QUOTE (Clapp @ Feb 19 2009, 03:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->He's also not one of these all or nothing power hitters like most of our guys have ended up being<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Excuse me? Since when are most of our guys all or nothing, non-contact hitters? They ranked 2nd in the league in runs and 8th in HRs. This team is all about putting the ball in play and that's why I like them.
<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->Miles was loved in St. Louis and it's mostly because of everything Clapp's listed about him.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Are you sure that it had nothing to do with him having a career year last year when he hit .317 (lifetime avg: .289) and got on base at a .355 clip (lifetime OBP: .329)?
If Miles puts up a line like he did last year (.317/.355/.398) than I'll be extremely happy with that. I think most people here will be. But something tells me he's going to float more closely to his career averages while playing pretty good defense at 2nd and unimpressive defense at any other position.
The career averages aren't terrible at all. I think I'm just going to have fits all year having just Theriot and Miles at SS all year.
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<!--quoteo(post=19141:date=Feb 19 2009, 04:30 PM:name=Scarey)-->QUOTE (Scarey @ Feb 19 2009, 04:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=19069:date=Feb 19 2009, 03:52 PM:name=Clapp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Clapp @ Feb 19 2009, 03:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->He's also not one of these all or nothing power hitters like most of our guys have ended up being<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Excuse me? Since when are most of our guys all or nothing, non-contact hitters? They ranked 2nd in the league in runs and 8th in HRs. This team is all about putting the ball in play and that's why I like them.
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They're streaky hitters that are great when they're hot, but were pure shit in the last 2 playoffs when they weren't. Miles is a guy where you know what you're getting with him every single game. We could've used a few of his singles the last couple years in October.
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<!--quoteo(post=19141:date=Feb 19 2009, 05:30 PM:name=Scarey)-->QUOTE (Scarey @ Feb 19 2009, 05:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->The career averages aren't terrible at all.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, the career averages are pretty terrible.
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