Fergie, Maddux To Have #31 Retired By Cubs

[dvdastud]

<!--quoteo(post=35239:date=May 3 2009, 07:32 PM:name=rok)-->QUOTE (rok @ May 3 2009, 07:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I don't think we need to retire any more numbers for a long time. Unless we develop a HOFer in the near future, there's no need to. I love both Grace and Dawson, but having your number retired is forever. I don't think they have earned it. Maddux probably didn't because his best years were in Atlanta, but I can at least live with it because he shared Fergie's number. Otherwise, I don't see the point.

But you can't start retiring the number of every All Star who's played for your team. It would lessen the honor.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Then take down Santo's number.

[Kid]

<!--quoteo(post=35252:date=May 3 2009, 11:35 PM:name=dvdastud)-->QUOTE (dvdastud @ May 3 2009, 11:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=35239:date=May 3 2009, 07:32 PM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ May 3 2009, 07:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I don't think we need to retire any more numbers for a long time. Unless we develop a HOFer in the near future, there's no need to. I love both Grace and Dawson, but having your number retired is forever. I don't think they have earned it. Maddux probably didn't because his best years were in Atlanta, but I can at least live with it because he shared Fergie's number. Otherwise, I don't see the point.

But you can't start retiring the number of every All Star who's played for your team. It would lessen the honor.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Then take down Santo's number.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Putting aside my view that Santo had a better career, you can take more into account then just what happened on the field. Santo is the most beloved former Cub ever.

Conversely, Grace's complete dickishness after leaving hurts him in that regard.

[Destined]

<!--quoteo(post=35241:date=May 3 2009, 05:39 PM:name=Giff)-->QUOTE (Giff @ May 3 2009, 05:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=35239:date=May 3 2009, 07:32 PM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ May 3 2009, 07:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I don't think we need to retire any more numbers for a long time. Unless we develop a HOFer in the near future, there's no need to. I love both Grace and Dawson, but having your number retired is forever. I don't think they have earned it. Maddux probably didn't because his best years were in Atlanta, but I can at least live with it because he shared Fergie's number. Otherwise, I don't see the point.

But you can't start retiring the number of every All Star who's played for your team. It would lessen the honor.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I definitely agree with that. By my memory and from most people I've talked to about, Grace may have been the most adored Cub of the past couple decades (along with Dawson), and he was a very good player, but having your number retired is something special. You have to be Hall of Fame material, and even though I think Grace deserves more consideration than he got (leading a decade in hits is a terrific accomplishment), he's nowhere near the level of Santo, Ernie, Billy, Ryno, and Fergie/Maddux.

One could potentially make a case Sosa deserves it, but there's no way that happens with the way things ended. And if I had to choose one person from this team that has the best chance, I think if Ramirez sticks around for another 8 years and continues to rake and possibly lead the team to a pennant and beyond (all of which I think are within the realm of possibility), he'd be my guy.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If Z plays another 10 years here, he would have about 220-260 wins as a Cub. I'd say he'd deserve it.

[Mikey]

<!--quoteo(post=35240:date=May 3 2009, 07:34 PM:name=Clapp)-->QUOTE (Clapp @ May 3 2009, 07:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=35239:date=May 3 2009, 06:32 PM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ May 3 2009, 06:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I don't think we need to retire any more numbers for a long time. Unless we develop a HOFer in the near future, there's no need to. I love both Grace and Dawson, but having your number retired is forever. I don't think they have earned it. Maddux probably didn't because his best years were in Atlanta, but I can at least live with it because he shared Fergie's number. Otherwise, I don't see the point.

But you can't start retiring the number of every All Star who's played for your team. It would lessen the honor.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sosa?

[veryzer]

first of all, even if grace left on great terms, he doesn't deserve it. he was real good player, but not good enough to have his number retired. he never led the league in average, never hit 20 home runs, never drove in 100 runs, never walked 100 times, scored 100 runs once, hit over 40 twice. good ballplayer, but not good enough.

dawson will be the next to have his number retired and it will stay that way for a while, and then, when old wounds are healed, sosa will have his retired as well. there isn't a doubt in my mind.

[ruby23]

I'd retire Sosa's number tomorrow, but that's just me.

[veryzer]

<!--quoteo(post=35271:date=May 4 2009, 07:47 AM:name=ruby23)-->QUOTE (ruby23 @ May 4 2009, 07:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I'd retire Sosa's number tomorrow, but that's just me.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

thats where you and i are siamese twins, joined at the forehead.

[Butcher]

<!--quoteo(post=35274:date=May 4 2009, 08:00 AM:name=veryzer)-->QUOTE (veryzer @ May 4 2009, 08:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=35271:date=May 4 2009, 07:47 AM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ May 4 2009, 07:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I'd retire Sosa's number tomorrow, but that's just me.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

thats where you and i are siamese twins, joined at the forehead.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Me three. Sosa was one of the all-time greatest Cubs -- no question about it.

[Kid]

Too bad he cheated.

[rok]

<!--quoteo(post=35285:date=May 4 2009, 09:35 AM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ May 4 2009, 09:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=35274:date=May 4 2009, 08:00 AM:name=veryzer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (veryzer @ May 4 2009, 08:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=35271:date=May 4 2009, 07:47 AM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ May 4 2009, 07:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I'd retire Sosa's number tomorrow, but that's just me.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

thats where you and i are siamese twins, joined at the forehead.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Me three. Sosa was one of the all-time greatest Cubs -- no question about it.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Putting aside my personal dislike for him and just looking at the numbers and how much larger than life he was for that period, I'd have to agree. I still think they'll wait to see if/when he gets voted into the Hall, and I don't have a problem with that.

And I'm sorry, the argument comparing Santo to Grace as a measuring stick for retiring their numbers doesn't wash with me. Santo has done exponentionally more for this organization than Grace ever did, both on the field and off.

[Butcher]

<!--quoteo(post=35287:date=May 4 2009, 09:56 AM:name=Kid)-->QUOTE (Kid @ May 4 2009, 09:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Too bad he cheated.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It is too bad. But he's still one of the all-time greatest Cubs.

[PcB]

<!--quoteo(post=35291:date=May 4 2009, 10:02 AM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ May 4 2009, 10:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=35287:date=May 4 2009, 09:56 AM:name=Kid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid @ May 4 2009, 09:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Too bad he cheated.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It is too bad. But he's still one of the all-time greatest Cubs.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not counting Santo because I think he'll get in eventually, I don't think someone who isn't/won't be in the H.O.F. should have their number retired. Since Sosa won't get in for a LOOOONNNGGG time if he even does, he shouldn't have his # retired.

[Butcher]

<!--quoteo(post=35295:date=May 4 2009, 10:29 AM:name=PcB)-->QUOTE (PcB @ May 4 2009, 10:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=35291:date=May 4 2009, 10:02 AM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ May 4 2009, 10:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=35287:date=May 4 2009, 09:56 AM:name=Kid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid @ May 4 2009, 09:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Too bad he cheated.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It is too bad. But he's still one of the all-time greatest Cubs.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not counting Santo because I think he'll get in eventually, I don't think someone who isn't/won't be in the H.O.F. should have their number retired. Since Sosa won't get in for a LOOOONNNGGG time if he even does, he shouldn't have his # retired.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sosa should be a first ballot guy.

[PcB]

<!--quoteo(post=35296:date=May 4 2009, 10:34 AM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ May 4 2009, 10:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=35295:date=May 4 2009, 10:29 AM:name=PcB)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PcB @ May 4 2009, 10:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=35291:date=May 4 2009, 10:02 AM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ May 4 2009, 10:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=35287:date=May 4 2009, 09:56 AM:name=Kid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid @ May 4 2009, 09:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Too bad he cheated.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It is too bad. But he's still one of the all-time greatest Cubs.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not counting Santo because I think he'll get in eventually, I don't think someone who isn't/won't be in the H.O.F. should have their number retired. Since Sosa won't get in for a LOOOONNNGGG time if he even does, he shouldn't have his # retired.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sosa should be a first ballot guy.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Mark McGwire should have been too... that worked out well...

[veryzer]

ummm....santo is never getting in the hall of fame. regardless if sammy does or not, and i think he will eventually, sammy deserves his number up there. i give it a good ten years or so, but it will happen.