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<!--quoteo(post=30682:date=Apr 16 2009, 08:15 AM:name=veryzer)-->QUOTE (veryzer @ Apr 16 2009, 08:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=30680:date=Apr 16 2009, 08:11 AM:name=Fella)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fella @ Apr 16 2009, 08:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=30677:date=Apr 16 2009, 07:05 AM:name=Kid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid @ Apr 16 2009, 07:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->B. This isn't about riding players who suck. Yes, regardless of race, that happens now at Wrigley. However, the problem is that multiple African-American players have reported that when they are the target of the fans' anger, there are some who make it racial.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I disagree, I think that's exactly what its about. Of course I agree the fact that some use racial slurs to do it, makes it a bigger problem.
Despite all the progress we have made as a country many many people still revert to racial comments when they want to hurt someone.
I still think it originates with dumbass fans trying to get on opposing players and/or sucky Cubs ones.
I don't think people come to the park specifically to find black players and hurl slurs at them.
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i just don't see fans yelling racial slurs during sell out games. not in this day and age. not saying it never happens, but i have a hard time believing it happens on a daily basis.
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I also don't see other people just sitting idly by while someone did yell something like that.
If it is loud enough to be heard on the field then someone around them heard it and had to be offended by it. Unless they were either racists themselves or cowards.
Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them.
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The perception that Wrigley has become a hostile place for black players *IS* a problem. And to the extent that racial slurs are being yelled, that is a *HUGE* problem.
My issue is that this article (and other articles like it) are making it seem like Wrigley Field is:
- a gigantic Klan rally, and
- the only place where fans get ugly and hostile.
The more these opinions get printed and repeated, the more they become accepted "truths."
Does anyone honestly believe that the same stuff doesn't go on at nearly every stadium across the country? Hell, on the other side of town, U.S. Cellular is right next door to Bridgeport -- one of the most notoriously intolerant communities in the city. I would hazard a guess that of the baseball fans in Bridgeport, 99.9% of them are Sox fans. Think any of them might be racist? Think any of them might get drunk and say something ignorant at a game? And yet, I don't see any articles about black players feeling uncomfortable playing at U.S. Cellular. Why is that? Does anyone truly believe that U.S. Cellular is a less hostile environment to play in than Wrigley Field? C'mon. How about Citizen's Bank in Philly? The new Shea Stadium (whatever it is called)? What about either stadium in Texas? Etc., etc., etc.
I don't think it's OK that it happens anywhere -- it shouldn't. I wouldn't have the slightest problem with fans being banned from Wrigley for life (if that were enforceable) for yelling racial slurs. But this notion that it happens at Wrigley more than anywhere else (and it is fast becoming an accepted notion) is preposterous. And all I'm saying is that articles like this one are helping perpetuate that notion. And that upsets me.
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Let me just say that I am STAGGERED by the amount of good points Tom has made in this thread.
-I can't see anyone dropping N-bombs in the stands loud enough for the fielders to hear, without SOMEONE coming down hard on that person. Even tried and true racists have a hard time using that term in public.
-I totally believe that the African American players think it's a problem. However, as Tom said, I think once the whispering began, ANY transgression by a fan supported their already solid beliefs that the fans in the bleachers were racist. To that end, quoting Hunter is pointless, as his entire view is based on what he was told, not what he experienced. Cameron also didn't say it was "the worst" he's seen. He said he had heard some stuff from the bleachers, and that "players who played there" told him it was the worst. Those players are probably strap and Latoya.
I'll also add that the Cubs organization subtly told Wittenmeyer he was full of shit, saying that while they didn't want to comment, his piece was at odds with what their security people were telling them.
I wish that I believed in Fate. I wish I didn't sleep so late. I used to be carried in the arms of cheerleaders.
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the bottom line is why write this article when nothing "new" has happened with regard to bradley?
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That article is complete bullshit. He only quotes one player, Mike Cameron, and his quotes are taken out of context. The author writes something about racism and then inserts something Cameron said. Implying Cameron is responding to the authors statements.
What Hunter said, is not even a quote. There is no indication where this came from, or that it is specifically about racism, and not just a tough crowd in general. The author is implying a direct conversation in which Hunter replied to a question about racial taunts, but this was just as likely pulled out of his ass.
I like you guys a lot.
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Butch, BT, Tom and Sipes get it.
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<!--quoteo(post=30701:date=Apr 16 2009, 10:17 AM:name=BT)-->QUOTE (BT @ Apr 16 2009, 10:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><b>Let me just say that I am STAGGERED by the amount of good points Tom has made in this thread. </b>
-I can't see anyone dropping N-bombs in the stands loud enough for the fielders to hear, without SOMEONE coming down hard on that person. Even tried and true racists have a hard time using that term in public.
-I totally believe that the African American players think it's a problem. However, as Tom said, I think once the whispering began, ANY transgression by a fan supported their already solid beliefs that the fans in the bleachers were racist. To that end, quoting Hunter is pointless, as his entire view is based on what he was told, not what he experienced. Cameron also didn't say it was "the worst" he's seen. He said he had heard some stuff from the bleachers, and that "players who played there" told him it was the worst. Those players are probably strap and Latoya.
I'll also add that the Cubs organization subtly told Wittenmeyer he was full of shit, saying that while they didn't want to comment, his piece was at odds with what their security people were telling them.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
thanks?
Wang.
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From Levine's blog on ESPNChicago:
<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->Cubs management is incensed over a cover story in Wednesday's Chicago Sun-Times alluding to Wrigley Field as being a hotbed for racist comments toward African-American players.
The story centered on the possibility that Milton Bradley, who has had a history of overreacting to certain situations on the field, might react to taunts from Wrigley fans.
One management source told me that newspaper officials were contacted by the team, which complained that this type of article without an incident attached to it is negative for the sake of being negative and could provoke responses to a problem that doesn't currently exist.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Link
The thing you need to remember is that all Cardinals fans and all White Sox fans are very bad people. It's a fact that has been scientifically proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. Being a Cubs fan is the only path to rightousness and piousness. Cardinal and White Sox fans exist to be the dark, diabolical forces that oppose us. They are the yin to our yang, the Joker to our Batman, the demon to our angel, the insurgence to our freedom, the oil to our water, the club to our baby seal. Their happiness occurs only in direct conflict with everything that is pure and good in this world.
-Dirk
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<!--quoteo(post=31116:date=Apr 17 2009, 11:14 AM:name=Giff)-->QUOTE (Giff @ Apr 17 2009, 11:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->From Levine's blog on ESPNChicago:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <!--quotec-->Cubs management is incensed over a cover story in Wednesday's Chicago Sun-Times alluding to Wrigley Field as being a hotbed for racist comments toward African-American players.
The story centered on the possibility that Milton Bradley, who has had a history of overreacting to certain situations on the field, might react to taunts from Wrigley fans.
One management source told me that newspaper officials were contacted by the team, which complained that this type of article without an incident attached to it is negative for the sake of being negative and could provoke responses to a problem that doesn't currently exist.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Link
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they're right to be mad. it was irresponsible journalism.
Wang.
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<!--quoteo(post=31120:date=Apr 17 2009, 12:43 PM:name=veryzer)-->QUOTE (veryzer @ Apr 17 2009, 12:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=31116:date=Apr 17 2009, 11:14 AM:name=Giff)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Giff @ Apr 17 2009, 11:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->From Levine's blog on ESPNChicago:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <!--quotec-->Cubs management is incensed over a cover story in Wednesday's Chicago Sun-Times alluding to Wrigley Field as being a hotbed for racist comments toward African-American players.
The story centered on the possibility that Milton Bradley, who has had a history of overreacting to certain situations on the field, might react to taunts from Wrigley fans.
One management source told me that newspaper officials were contacted by the team, which complained that <b>this type of article without an incident attached to it is negative for the sake of being negative and could provoke responses to a problem that doesn't currently exist.</b><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Link
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
they're right to be mad. it was irresponsible journalism.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Exactly what I was saying the entire time.
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<!--quoteo(post=31123:date=Apr 17 2009, 12:50 PM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Apr 17 2009, 12:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=31120:date=Apr 17 2009, 12:43 PM:name=veryzer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (veryzer @ Apr 17 2009, 12:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=31116:date=Apr 17 2009, 11:14 AM:name=Giff)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Giff @ Apr 17 2009, 11:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->From Levine's blog on ESPNChicago:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <!--quotec-->Cubs management is incensed over a cover story in Wednesday's Chicago Sun-Times alluding to Wrigley Field as being a hotbed for racist comments toward African-American players.
The story centered on the possibility that Milton Bradley, who has had a history of overreacting to certain situations on the field, might react to taunts from Wrigley fans.
One management source told me that newspaper officials were contacted by the team, which complained that <b>this type of article without an incident attached to it is negative for the sake of being negative and could provoke responses to a problem that doesn't currently exist.</b><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Link
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
they're right to be mad. it was irresponsible journalism.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Exactly what I was saying the entire time.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i wish i could be one of your wives.
Wang.
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<!--quoteo(post=31124:date=Apr 17 2009, 12:52 PM:name=veryzer)-->QUOTE (veryzer @ Apr 17 2009, 12:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=31123:date=Apr 17 2009, 12:50 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Apr 17 2009, 12:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=31120:date=Apr 17 2009, 12:43 PM:name=veryzer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (veryzer @ Apr 17 2009, 12:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=31116:date=Apr 17 2009, 11:14 AM:name=Giff)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Giff @ Apr 17 2009, 11:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->From Levine's blog on ESPNChicago:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <!--quotec-->Cubs management is incensed over a cover story in Wednesday's Chicago Sun-Times alluding to Wrigley Field as being a hotbed for racist comments toward African-American players.
The story centered on the possibility that Milton Bradley, who has had a history of overreacting to certain situations on the field, might react to taunts from Wrigley fans.
One management source told me that newspaper officials were contacted by the team, which complained that <b>this type of article without an incident attached to it is negative for the sake of being negative and could provoke responses to a problem that doesn't currently exist.</b><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Link
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
they're right to be mad. it was irresponsible journalism.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Exactly what I was saying the entire time.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i wish i could be one of your wives.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We can always role play.
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<!--quoteo(post=31125:date=Apr 17 2009, 12:53 PM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Apr 17 2009, 12:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=31124:date=Apr 17 2009, 12:52 PM:name=veryzer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (veryzer @ Apr 17 2009, 12:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=31123:date=Apr 17 2009, 12:50 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Apr 17 2009, 12:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=31120:date=Apr 17 2009, 12:43 PM:name=veryzer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (veryzer @ Apr 17 2009, 12:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=31116:date=Apr 17 2009, 11:14 AM:name=Giff)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Giff @ Apr 17 2009, 11:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->From Levine's blog on ESPNChicago:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <!--quotec-->Cubs management is incensed over a cover story in Wednesday's Chicago Sun-Times alluding to Wrigley Field as being a hotbed for racist comments toward African-American players.
The story centered on the possibility that Milton Bradley, who has had a history of overreacting to certain situations on the field, might react to taunts from Wrigley fans.
One management source told me that newspaper officials were contacted by the team, which complained that <b>this type of article without an incident attached to it is negative for the sake of being negative and could provoke responses to a problem that doesn't currently exist.</b><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Link
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
they're right to be mad. it was irresponsible journalism.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Exactly what I was saying the entire time.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i wish i could be one of your wives.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We can always role play.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i have a role in my pants you can play with. it's a nutrole.
Wang.
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<!--quoteo(post=31127:date=Apr 17 2009, 12:55 PM:name=veryzer)-->QUOTE (veryzer @ Apr 17 2009, 12:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=31125:date=Apr 17 2009, 12:53 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Apr 17 2009, 12:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=31124:date=Apr 17 2009, 12:52 PM:name=veryzer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (veryzer @ Apr 17 2009, 12:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=31123:date=Apr 17 2009, 12:50 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Apr 17 2009, 12:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=31120:date=Apr 17 2009, 12:43 PM:name=veryzer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (veryzer @ Apr 17 2009, 12:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=31116:date=Apr 17 2009, 11:14 AM:name=Giff)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Giff @ Apr 17 2009, 11:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->From Levine's blog on ESPNChicago:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <!--quotec-->Cubs management is incensed over a cover story in Wednesday's Chicago Sun-Times alluding to Wrigley Field as being a hotbed for racist comments toward African-American players.
The story centered on the possibility that Milton Bradley, who has had a history of overreacting to certain situations on the field, might react to taunts from Wrigley fans.
One management source told me that newspaper officials were contacted by the team, which complained that <b>this type of article without an incident attached to it is negative for the sake of being negative and could provoke responses to a problem that doesn't currently exist.</b><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Link
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
they're right to be mad. it was irresponsible journalism.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Exactly what I was saying the entire time.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i wish i could be one of your wives.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We can always role play.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i have a role in my pants you can play with. it's a nutrole.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Salted?
I got nothin'.
Andy
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