Are Cub fans really all that racist?

[Fly]

I don't buy this expecting too much nonsense. Personally, I expect a lot less from the black players...

/deep south'd

/kidding

/

[Butcher]

<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->nobody has suggested it's a widespread problem among Cubs fans<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

From Wittenmeyer:

<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->crowds at Wrigley and Boston's Fenway Park also are considered among the worst by African-American players for a racist element <i>comprising at least vocal minorities</i><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Maybe it's subtle (I don't think so), but there's a suggestion there that it's more than just a few bad apples.

[PcB]

I'm not sure why anyone was arguing with Ruby.

[veryzer]

<!--quoteo(post=30581:date=Apr 15 2009, 03:05 PM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ Apr 15 2009, 03:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=30567:date=Apr 15 2009, 02:53 PM:name=Croz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Croz @ Apr 15 2009, 02:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=30565:date=Apr 15 2009, 02:50 PM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ Apr 15 2009, 02:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->You know, it doesn't matter what ruby/butch/tom thinks. What matters is that the Cubs have a seriously bad reputation around MLB for having racist fans. Torii Hunter specifically put the Cubs on his "no-trade" list because he didn't want to be the subject of racial epithets while trying to play ball.

Doesn't it seem like something has to be done? Putting monitors/security guards in the bleachers? If Bradley made a bad throw, and the guy next to me called him an "N," I seriously would consider punching the guy.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Have you actually heard the "N" word during a game? I have been to a lot of games and sat in all areas of the park and have NEVER heard one N word. A lot of f bombs though.
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I never have. But I'm not a black ballplayer, and they all say they have. Is it a massive conspiracy to falsely paint Wrigley as racist?
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kb, i'm telling you, this shit started with dusty. when things went bad for him, he played the race card. am i saying he never got racist mail? no, i'm sure he did. was it as bad as he tried to make us believe? no. dusty needed a shield and race was it.

bottom line is this: if you suck, you're gonna hear about it no matter what colour you are. ask bobby howry. he can't even go to a public bathroom without some drunken ass clown telling him he sucks.

and i guarantee you that anyone in the stands drops an n-bomb, they're gonna be ejected. i'm 110% sure of that.

[Ace]

<!--quoteo(post=30658:date=Apr 15 2009, 09:32 PM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Apr 15 2009, 09:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <!--quotec-->nobody has suggested it's a widespread problem among Cubs fans<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

From Wittenmeyer:

<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->crowds at Wrigley and Boston's Fenway Park also are considered among the worst by African-American players for a racist element <i>comprising at least vocal minorities</i><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Maybe it's subtle (I don't think so), but there's a suggestion there that it's more than just a few bad apples.
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Yup. That was my primary beef with it.

[veryzer]

<!--quoteo(post=30652:date=Apr 15 2009, 07:57 PM:name=Kid)-->QUOTE (Kid @ Apr 15 2009, 07:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=30455:date=Apr 15 2009, 01:15 PM:name=Andy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Andy @ Apr 15 2009, 01:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->The problem is that multiple players have now made mention of it. Both Cubs players and visiting players. There must be something to it. It certainly isn't to say that it's not a vocal minority, but the fact that the majority doesn't put an end to it, doesn't bode well.

Obviously players that play well aren't going to hear it.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think Andy's hit the nail on the head. Numerous players have reported the same thing and it's pretty clear that Wrigley is developing a reputation.

I think people have either misread the article or didn't read it in the first place. Nowhere does Wittenmeyer come close to saying "Cubs fans are racists" or "most Cubs fans are racists." Because the article is either misread or people don't read and hear 2nd hand that "an article says all Cubs fans are racists," they turn around and A. take offense at the premise, the only problem being that's not the premise and B. deny the existence of a problem so as to deny any racism-by-association on their part.

Wittenmeyer reports on what appears to be a legitimate problem at Wrigley - racist taunting by fans in sufficient volume as to exceed the norm. Is it a problem caused by a handful of drunken idiots in the bleachers? Probably - but again nobody has suggested it's a widespread problem among Cubs fans. But that doesn't mean it's not a legitimate issue.
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sorry, not buying it. in this day and age, people yelling racila slurs at players just isn't gonna fly, especially n-bombs, which may be the most volitile word in the english language. it's not gonna happen. in the rare case it does, that person is going to be dealt with swiftly.

i got in trouble for heckling derrick bell during warmups one year and i never used profanity and i certainly never used a racial slur. the old people that work at wrigley are miseble people. they don't cotton to taunting of any kind, much less racial slurs. i contend it's not a legitimate problem at wrigley or anywhere else. wittenmeyer is creating a controversy to sell papers.

[Kid]

<!--quoteo(post=30670:date=Apr 16 2009, 08:27 AM:name=veryzer)-->QUOTE (veryzer @ Apr 16 2009, 08:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=30652:date=Apr 15 2009, 07:57 PM:name=Kid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid @ Apr 15 2009, 07:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=30455:date=Apr 15 2009, 01:15 PM:name=Andy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Andy @ Apr 15 2009, 01:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->The problem is that multiple players have now made mention of it. Both Cubs players and visiting players. There must be something to it. It certainly isn't to say that it's not a vocal minority, but the fact that the majority doesn't put an end to it, doesn't bode well.

Obviously players that play well aren't going to hear it.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think Andy's hit the nail on the head. Numerous players have reported the same thing and it's pretty clear that Wrigley is developing a reputation.

I think people have either misread the article or didn't read it in the first place. Nowhere does Wittenmeyer come close to saying "Cubs fans are racists" or "most Cubs fans are racists." Because the article is either misread or people don't read and hear 2nd hand that "an article says all Cubs fans are racists," they turn around and A. take offense at the premise, the only problem being that's not the premise and B. deny the existence of a problem so as to deny any racism-by-association on their part.

Wittenmeyer reports on what appears to be a legitimate problem at Wrigley - racist taunting by fans in sufficient volume as to exceed the norm. Is it a problem caused by a handful of drunken idiots in the bleachers? Probably - but again nobody has suggested it's a widespread problem among Cubs fans. But that doesn't mean it's not a legitimate issue.
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sorry, not buying it. in this day and age, people yelling racila slurs at players just isn't gonna fly, especially n-bombs, which may be the most volitile word in the english language. it's not gonna happen. in the rare case it does, that person is going to be dealt with swiftly.

i got in trouble for heckling derrick bell during warmups one year and i never used profanity and i certainly never used a racial slur. the old people that work at wrigley are miseble people. they don't cotton to taunting of any kind, much less racial slurs. i contend it's not a legitimate problem at wrigley or anywhere else. wittenmeyer is creating a controversy to sell papers.
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It sounds from the article like the problem may be somewhat confined to the bleachers where the old ushers tend not to tread.

[Butcher]

<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->ask bobby howry. he can't even go to a public bathroom without some drunken ass clown telling him he sucks.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/spit.gif[/img]

[Lance]

<!--quoteo(post=30668:date=Apr 16 2009, 08:15 AM:name=veryzer)-->QUOTE (veryzer @ Apr 16 2009, 08:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->bottom line is this: if you suck, you're gonna hear about it no matter what colour you are. ask bobby howry. he can't even go to a public bathroom without some drunken ass clown telling him he sucks.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


That deserves to be quote of the week.

[Fella]

Yeah its really too bad that a few bad fans have to revert to racial slurs in the stands. In this case I think it was the fact that we had a coincidental run of African American players and managers that underperformed and/or were really stupid. (Jacque Jones, LaTroy Hawkins, Dusty) When the fans let them have it a few turned to racial slurs. Then it makes its way around the league that Wrigley is a bad place for that type of stuff, it gets written about and turned into a huge issue.

Of course many white players have heard the boos and all kinds of comments too but the racist stuff is what gets magnified.

I still think most players love playing at Wrigley, especially the ones who don't suck. Chicago sports fans have loved and worshiped many African American athletes.

I do think for the most part this article was written to get publicity and excite emotions. Journalism is a business.

[Kid]

A couple points:

A. I don't take the same inference from Wittenmyer that it's a widespread problem. To the extent that inference exists, I also reject it, but that doesn't mean there's not a problem.

B. This isn't about riding players who suck. Yes, regardless of race, that happens now at Wrigley. However, the problem is that multiple African-American players have reported that when they are the target of the fans' anger, there are some who make it racial. That's a real problem.

C. It's not just Hawkins & Jones. Mike Cameron reports the same thing from the opposing players' point of view. I think there's a strong inference in Derrek Lee's quote that it exists. And there's also an unnamed former Cubs outfielder who also reports it.

[veryzer]

let me ask you this: what do hawkins, strap, and hunter all have in common besides being black guys? they were all teammates on the twins. when hawkins blew balls, the fans got on his ass big time. what do you think he did? take responsibility for sucking or blame the "racist" cub fans? what do you think he said to strap when he came here? what do you think strap told hunter?

let me ask you this: before hawkins came to the cubs, did you ever hear anything about cub fans being racist? ever? i never did.

let me ask you this: how much of this was perpetuated by dusty? in his mind, he never made a mistake, so who's he gonna blame? himself or the "racist" cub fans?

let me ask you this: would that story even have been in the paper if it wasn't jackie robinson day?

let me ask you this: wouldn't it have been nice if gordo would have interviewed the countless number of black players that played here and had no problems whatsoever?

let me ask you this: theres a statue of a player in front of wrigley. who is that player and what colour is he?

[Fella]

<!--quoteo(post=30677:date=Apr 16 2009, 07:05 AM:name=Kid)-->QUOTE (Kid @ Apr 16 2009, 07:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->B. This isn't about riding players who suck. Yes, regardless of race, that happens now at Wrigley. However, the problem is that multiple African-American players have reported that when they are the target of the fans' anger, there are some who make it racial.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I disagree, I think that's exactly what its about. Of course I agree the fact that some use racial slurs to do it, makes it a bigger problem.

Despite all the progress we have made as a country many many people still revert to racial comments when they want to hurt someone.

I still think it originates with dumbass fans trying to get on opposing players and/or sucky Cubs ones.

I don't think people come to the park specifically to find black players and hurl slurs at them.

[Fella]

<!--quoteo(post=30679:date=Apr 16 2009, 07:10 AM:name=veryzer)-->QUOTE (veryzer @ Apr 16 2009, 07:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->l
let me ask you this: before hawkins came to the cubs, did you ever hear anything about cub fans being racist? ever? i never did.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Nope, I've said that several times. This race stuff at Wrigley all started with Hawkins.

That doesn't mean I'm saying he didn't hear some of it, I'm sure he did.

But like Don Baylor said, you hear it everywhere, its just the way it is, you just have to ignore it. That's really sad that people still have to act that way, but I still don't think its worse in Chicago than in other cities, just more out in the public.

[veryzer]

<!--quoteo(post=30680:date=Apr 16 2009, 08:11 AM:name=Fella)-->QUOTE (Fella @ Apr 16 2009, 08:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=30677:date=Apr 16 2009, 07:05 AM:name=Kid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid @ Apr 16 2009, 07:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->B. This isn't about riding players who suck. Yes, regardless of race, that happens now at Wrigley. However, the problem is that multiple African-American players have reported that when they are the target of the fans' anger, there are some who make it racial.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I disagree, I think that's exactly what its about. Of course I agree the fact that some use racial slurs to do it, makes it a bigger problem.

Despite all the progress we have made as a country many many people still revert to racial comments when they want to hurt someone.

I still think it originates with dumbass fans trying to get on opposing players and/or sucky Cubs ones.

I don't think people come to the park specifically to find black players and hurl slurs at them.
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i just don't see fans yelling racial slurs during sell out games. not in this day and age. not saying it never happens, but i have a hard time believing it happens on a daily basis.