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<!--quoteo(post=38182:date=May 15 2009, 04:51 PM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ May 15 2009, 04:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=38179:date=May 15 2009, 03:34 PM:name=FlyAtTheThigh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FlyAtTheThigh @ May 15 2009, 03:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=38178:date=May 15 2009, 04:31 PM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ May 15 2009, 04:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=38176:date=May 15 2009, 03:26 PM:name=FlyAtTheThigh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FlyAtTheThigh @ May 15 2009, 03:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=38171:date=May 15 2009, 04:09 PM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ May 15 2009, 04:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=38150:date=May 15 2009, 01:53 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ May 15 2009, 01:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I'd take Bedard in a heartbeat and start him in the playoffs over everyone on our roster -- unless Harden is throwing in the upper 90s at the time. Then I'd go Harden-Bedard-Z.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd like to know what Bedard has done to make you think this? I wouldn't take him over any starter we have, except Marshall.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
3.74 ERA playing all of his career in the AL and most in the AL East, 754 K in 781 innings. Those numbers are better than Z's career numbers, certainly more solid than Dempster's one good year, and better on the whole than Lilly's.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, he's also never completed a 200 inning season, and has some durability issues. Not saying he isn't talented, but the guy has serious flaws too.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh, no doubt. There'd be risks involved with him being on the team. But that's not to say that the pitchers that I listed for us don't have flaws as well (Z's scary increase in walks + hamstring injury, Dempster essentially having one good year). It's hard to find a complete pitcher, <b>and the complete ones are generally not available.</b>
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, 2 of the very best pitchers in baseball have been "available" two off-seasons in a row now, Johan Santana and C.C. Sabathia.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
First off, there are some serious red flags to CC Sabathia and his workload.
Next, what other top tier pitchers are available? Halladay? Doubtful. Peavy? I dunno if I put him in the top tier. Lincecum? Nope. Cliff Lee? See Peavy. Felix Hernandez? Nope.
I think seeing guys the caliber of Sabathia and Johan moving isn't something that is going to be happen often. Before CC/Johan, when was the last time a true ace switched teams? Hudson to the Braves? And before that?
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I never meant to imply that Bedard was the kind of "true ace" that I was talking about, but he's got as much talent as anyone on our staff -- and then some. If he became available, I'd be very interested in him...
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<!--quoteo(post=38185:date=May 15 2009, 04:54 PM:name=Fella)-->QUOTE (Fella @ May 15 2009, 04:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=38183:date=May 15 2009, 02:52 PM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ May 15 2009, 02:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=38176:date=May 15 2009, 03:26 PM:name=FlyAtTheThigh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FlyAtTheThigh @ May 15 2009, 03:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=38171:date=May 15 2009, 04:09 PM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ May 15 2009, 04:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=38150:date=May 15 2009, 01:53 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ May 15 2009, 01:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I'd take Bedard in a heartbeat and start him in the playoffs over everyone on our roster -- unless Harden is throwing in the upper 90s at the time. Then I'd go Harden-Bedard-Z.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd like to know what Bedard has done to make you think this? I wouldn't take him over any starter we have, except Marshall.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
3.74 ERA playing all of his career in the AL and most in the AL East, 754 K in 781 innings. Those numbers are better than Z's career numbers, certainly more solid than Dempster's one good year, and better on the whole than Lilly's.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Very good points. I might be able to get behind that. There's just something about him that screams "stay away" to me though.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not saying I wouldn't take him, he has great talent, but to me he would just be a lefty Rich Harden, tons of talent, but not a guy you can count on to be a true ace.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree with that completely. He's a 6-7 inning pitcher, probably, but he's probably going to be available, wouldn't involve a long term commitment right off the bat, and I think it's going to be really difficult to find a greater talent for the rotation than Bedard during the season. Yes, it would be really risky to have Harden and Bedard as our nominal 1-2 punch considering they could explode, but it seems impossible to find players that teams are willing to move absent a certain level of risk. Harden would have never been available if not for the injury risk.
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<!--quoteo(post=38094:date=May 15 2009, 09:58 AM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ May 15 2009, 09:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Just to add to the above thought -- if we had someone like that, I think we would've won at least one of the playoff series from the last two seasons.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No we wouldn't have. Not a chance.
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<!--quoteo(post=38185:date=May 15 2009, 02:54 PM:name=Fella)-->QUOTE (Fella @ May 15 2009, 02:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=38183:date=May 15 2009, 02:52 PM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ May 15 2009, 02:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=38176:date=May 15 2009, 03:26 PM:name=FlyAtTheThigh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FlyAtTheThigh @ May 15 2009, 03:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=38171:date=May 15 2009, 04:09 PM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ May 15 2009, 04:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=38150:date=May 15 2009, 01:53 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ May 15 2009, 01:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I'd take Bedard in a heartbeat and start him in the playoffs over everyone on our roster -- unless Harden is throwing in the upper 90s at the time. Then I'd go Harden-Bedard-Z.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd like to know what Bedard has done to make you think this? I wouldn't take him over any starter we have, except Marshall.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
3.74 ERA playing all of his career in the AL and most in the AL East, 754 K in 781 innings. Those numbers are better than Z's career numbers, certainly more solid than Dempster's one good year, and better on the whole than Lilly's.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Very good points. I might be able to get behind that. There's just something about him that screams "stay away" to me though.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree
The Mariners GM threw him under the bus big time last year, said it was all they could do to get him to take the ball. He has Injury issues and I think he is a head case and a douche.
Not saying I wouldn't take him, he has great talent, but to me he would just be a lefty Rich Harden, tons of talent, but not a guy you can count on to be a true ace.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Bingo. Like Ruby said, I'd only take him over Marshall.
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<!--quoteo(post=38186:date=May 15 2009, 02:56 PM:name=FlyAtTheThigh)-->QUOTE (FlyAtTheThigh @ May 15 2009, 02:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=38182:date=May 15 2009, 04:51 PM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ May 15 2009, 04:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=38179:date=May 15 2009, 03:34 PM:name=FlyAtTheThigh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FlyAtTheThigh @ May 15 2009, 03:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=38178:date=May 15 2009, 04:31 PM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ May 15 2009, 04:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=38176:date=May 15 2009, 03:26 PM:name=FlyAtTheThigh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FlyAtTheThigh @ May 15 2009, 03:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=38171:date=May 15 2009, 04:09 PM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ May 15 2009, 04:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=38150:date=May 15 2009, 01:53 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ May 15 2009, 01:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I'd take Bedard in a heartbeat and start him in the playoffs over everyone on our roster -- unless Harden is throwing in the upper 90s at the time. Then I'd go Harden-Bedard-Z.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd like to know what Bedard has done to make you think this? I wouldn't take him over any starter we have, except Marshall.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
3.74 ERA playing all of his career in the AL and most in the AL East, 754 K in 781 innings. Those numbers are better than Z's career numbers, certainly more solid than Dempster's one good year, and better on the whole than Lilly's.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, he's also never completed a 200 inning season, and has some durability issues. Not saying he isn't talented, but the guy has serious flaws too.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh, no doubt. There'd be risks involved with him being on the team. But that's not to say that the pitchers that I listed for us don't have flaws as well (Z's scary increase in walks + hamstring injury, Dempster essentially having one good year). It's hard to find a complete pitcher, <b>and the complete ones are generally not available.</b>
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, 2 of the very best pitchers in baseball have been "available" two off-seasons in a row now, Johan Santana and C.C. Sabathia.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
First off, there are some serious red flags to CC Sabathia and his workload.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well there shouldn't be, way overblown. He's a horse. He takes the ball every 5th day, and has done so for 9 straight years, just like Zambrano.
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<!--quoteo(post=38186:date=May 15 2009, 03:56 PM:name=FlyAtTheThigh)-->QUOTE (FlyAtTheThigh @ May 15 2009, 03:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=38182:date=May 15 2009, 04:51 PM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ May 15 2009, 04:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=38179:date=May 15 2009, 03:34 PM:name=FlyAtTheThigh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FlyAtTheThigh @ May 15 2009, 03:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=38178:date=May 15 2009, 04:31 PM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ May 15 2009, 04:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=38176:date=May 15 2009, 03:26 PM:name=FlyAtTheThigh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FlyAtTheThigh @ May 15 2009, 03:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=38171:date=May 15 2009, 04:09 PM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ May 15 2009, 04:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=38150:date=May 15 2009, 01:53 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ May 15 2009, 01:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I'd take Bedard in a heartbeat and start him in the playoffs over everyone on our roster -- unless Harden is throwing in the upper 90s at the time. Then I'd go Harden-Bedard-Z.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd like to know what Bedard has done to make you think this? I wouldn't take him over any starter we have, except Marshall.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
3.74 ERA playing all of his career in the AL and most in the AL East, 754 K in 781 innings. Those numbers are better than Z's career numbers, certainly more solid than Dempster's one good year, and better on the whole than Lilly's.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, he's also never completed a 200 inning season, and has some durability issues. Not saying he isn't talented, but the guy has serious flaws too.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh, no doubt. There'd be risks involved with him being on the team. But that's not to say that the pitchers that I listed for us don't have flaws as well (Z's scary increase in walks + hamstring injury, Dempster essentially having one good year). It's hard to find a complete pitcher, <b>and the complete ones are generally not available.</b>
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, 2 of the very best pitchers in baseball have been "available" two off-seasons in a row now, Johan Santana and C.C. Sabathia.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
First off, there are some serious red flags to CC Sabathia and his workload.
Next, what other top tier pitchers are available? Halladay? Doubtful. Peavy? I dunno if I put him in the top tier. Lincecum? Nope. Cliff Lee? See Peavy. Felix Hernandez? Nope.
I think seeing guys the caliber of Sabathia and Johan moving isn't something that is going to be happen often. Before CC/Johan, when was the last time a true ace switched teams? Hudson to the Braves? And before that?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Fly, I didn't mean to imply that I was disagreeing with you. The opposite: yes, it's VERY rare for a top-tier ace to become available, you're right.
I was implying that perhaps we should have at least tried for one of them, because "ace availability" is indeed so rare.
But it's spilt milk now, and besides, we have a pretty strong rotation. Sure, I wish we had Santana (and it turns out that we <i>could</i> have gotten him, considering how meager a a set of prospects the Mets gave up for him), but did the Cubs want to throw out another $135 M contract one year after Alf, and while the team was up for sale?
Probably not.
Anyway, we have a fine-enough playoff rotation, and Bedard would probably be like Lilly even if we landed him...the 4th starter in a playoff series.
There's nothing better than to realize that the good things about youth don't end with youth itself. It's a matter of realizing that life can be renewed every day you get out of bed without baggage. It's tough to get there, but it's better than the dark thoughts. -Lance
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I'd still rather wait to see what we need in 1-2 months. Unless we lose 7 or 8 in a row and can't score runs, shouldn't be looking for a month rental for a third baseman. Fontenot, Scales, and Freel are just fine there for a bit, we should still score plenty enough runs.
But injuries happen, a real hole may be evident in a month or two, let's wait until then to see what we need. As of right now, we have the best rotation in the league so I don't think we should be really looking to acquire a starting pitcher. If we can get Peavy, that's awesome, but it's still not a need by any means. I'm confident in our top four starters in the playoffs, if Harden's healthy, which he wasn't really last time around. I think Dempster and Lilly will both do much better this time, they've each talked about how they want that chance at redemption.
I wanted Lilly starting game one or two last year with how well he'd been pitching. He was one of the best pitchers in baseball after April. He was crap for us in 07, and crap for the A's in 2002, but in two games in 2003 against the Red Sox...
9 IP, 2 H, 0 ER, 2 BB, 7 K.
So he's done it before.
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This cracked me up:
Jeff Francouer since the beginning of last year: 188 G, <!--coloro:#0000FF--><!--/coloro-->.243/.291/.364<!--colorc-->
<!--/colorc-->, 72 OPS+, 0/2 SB/CS, -3.0 UZR
Carlos Zambrano since 2003 (hitting/pitching): 210 G, <!--coloro:#0000FF--><!--/coloro-->.254/.262/.413<!--colorc-->
<!--/colorc-->, 70 OPS+, 1/0 SB/CS, 1304 IP, 131 ERA+
There's nothing better than to realize that the good things about youth don't end with youth itself. It's a matter of realizing that life can be renewed every day you get out of bed without baggage. It's tough to get there, but it's better than the dark thoughts. -Lance
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<!--quoteo(post=38195:date=May 15 2009, 06:33 PM:name=Clapp)-->QUOTE (Clapp @ May 15 2009, 06:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=38186:date=May 15 2009, 02:56 PM:name=FlyAtTheThigh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FlyAtTheThigh @ May 15 2009, 02:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=38182:date=May 15 2009, 04:51 PM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ May 15 2009, 04:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=38179:date=May 15 2009, 03:34 PM:name=FlyAtTheThigh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FlyAtTheThigh @ May 15 2009, 03:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=38178:date=May 15 2009, 04:31 PM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ May 15 2009, 04:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=38176:date=May 15 2009, 03:26 PM:name=FlyAtTheThigh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FlyAtTheThigh @ May 15 2009, 03:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=38171:date=May 15 2009, 04:09 PM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ May 15 2009, 04:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=38150:date=May 15 2009, 01:53 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ May 15 2009, 01:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I'd take Bedard in a heartbeat and start him in the playoffs over everyone on our roster -- unless Harden is throwing in the upper 90s at the time. Then I'd go Harden-Bedard-Z.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd like to know what Bedard has done to make you think this? I wouldn't take him over any starter we have, except Marshall.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
3.74 ERA playing all of his career in the AL and most in the AL East, 754 K in 781 innings. Those numbers are better than Z's career numbers, certainly more solid than Dempster's one good year, and better on the whole than Lilly's.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, he's also never completed a 200 inning season, and has some durability issues. Not saying he isn't talented, but the guy has serious flaws too.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh, no doubt. There'd be risks involved with him being on the team. But that's not to say that the pitchers that I listed for us don't have flaws as well (Z's scary increase in walks + hamstring injury, Dempster essentially having one good year). It's hard to find a complete pitcher, <b>and the complete ones are generally not available.</b>
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, 2 of the very best pitchers in baseball have been "available" two off-seasons in a row now, Johan Santana and C.C. Sabathia.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
First off, there are some serious red flags to CC Sabathia and his workload.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well there shouldn't be, way overblown. He's a horse. He takes the ball every 5th day, and has done so for 9 straight years, just like Zambrano.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Zambrano's not taking the ball every 5th day anymore, nor is he as effective as he was earlier in his career.
Though that one statement was more of an aside than my point.
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<!--quoteo(post=38194:date=May 15 2009, 06:30 PM:name=Clapp)-->QUOTE (Clapp @ May 15 2009, 06:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=38185:date=May 15 2009, 02:54 PM:name=Fella)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fella @ May 15 2009, 02:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=38183:date=May 15 2009, 02:52 PM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ May 15 2009, 02:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=38176:date=May 15 2009, 03:26 PM:name=FlyAtTheThigh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FlyAtTheThigh @ May 15 2009, 03:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=38171:date=May 15 2009, 04:09 PM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ May 15 2009, 04:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=38150:date=May 15 2009, 01:53 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ May 15 2009, 01:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I'd take Bedard in a heartbeat and start him in the playoffs over everyone on our roster -- unless Harden is throwing in the upper 90s at the time. Then I'd go Harden-Bedard-Z.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd like to know what Bedard has done to make you think this? I wouldn't take him over any starter we have, except Marshall.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
3.74 ERA playing all of his career in the AL and most in the AL East, 754 K in 781 innings. Those numbers are better than Z's career numbers, certainly more solid than Dempster's one good year, and better on the whole than Lilly's.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Very good points. I might be able to get behind that. There's just something about him that screams "stay away" to me though.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree
The Mariners GM threw him under the bus big time last year, said it was all they could do to get him to take the ball. He has Injury issues and I think he is a head case and a douche.
Not saying I wouldn't take him, he has great talent, but to me he would just be a lefty Rich Harden, tons of talent, but not a guy you can count on to be a true ace.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Bingo. Like Ruby said, I'd only take him over Marshall.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm sorry, but to take a guy like Dempster over Bedard is lunacy. Lunacy. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif[/img]
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<!--quoteo(post=38206:date=May 15 2009, 06:12 PM:name=FlyAtTheThigh)-->QUOTE (FlyAtTheThigh @ May 15 2009, 06:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=38195:date=May 15 2009, 06:33 PM:name=Clapp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Clapp @ May 15 2009, 06:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=38186:date=May 15 2009, 02:56 PM:name=FlyAtTheThigh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FlyAtTheThigh @ May 15 2009, 02:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=38182:date=May 15 2009, 04:51 PM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ May 15 2009, 04:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=38179:date=May 15 2009, 03:34 PM:name=FlyAtTheThigh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FlyAtTheThigh @ May 15 2009, 03:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=38178:date=May 15 2009, 04:31 PM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ May 15 2009, 04:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=38176:date=May 15 2009, 03:26 PM:name=FlyAtTheThigh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FlyAtTheThigh @ May 15 2009, 03:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=38171:date=May 15 2009, 04:09 PM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ May 15 2009, 04:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=38150:date=May 15 2009, 01:53 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ May 15 2009, 01:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I'd take Bedard in a heartbeat and start him in the playoffs over everyone on our roster -- unless Harden is throwing in the upper 90s at the time. Then I'd go Harden-Bedard-Z.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd like to know what Bedard has done to make you think this? I wouldn't take him over any starter we have, except Marshall.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
3.74 ERA playing all of his career in the AL and most in the AL East, 754 K in 781 innings. Those numbers are better than Z's career numbers, certainly more solid than Dempster's one good year, and better on the whole than Lilly's.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, he's also never completed a 200 inning season, and has some durability issues. Not saying he isn't talented, but the guy has serious flaws too.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh, no doubt. There'd be risks involved with him being on the team. But that's not to say that the pitchers that I listed for us don't have flaws as well (Z's scary increase in walks + hamstring injury, Dempster essentially having one good year). It's hard to find a complete pitcher, <b>and the complete ones are generally not available.</b>
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, 2 of the very best pitchers in baseball have been "available" two off-seasons in a row now, Johan Santana and C.C. Sabathia.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
First off, there are some serious red flags to CC Sabathia and his workload.
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Well there shouldn't be, way overblown. He's a horse. He takes the ball every 5th day, and has done so for 9 straight years, just like Zambrano.
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Zambrano's not taking the ball every 5th day anymore, nor is he as effective as he was earlier in his career.
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He hurt his hamstring trying to beat out a bunt, has nothing to do with his pitching. And he's still pitching just fine, there's nothing wrong with his stuff whatsoever.
@TheBlogfines
Posts: 7,162
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<!--quoteo(post=38207:date=May 15 2009, 06:13 PM:name=FlyAtTheThigh)-->QUOTE (FlyAtTheThigh @ May 15 2009, 06:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=38194:date=May 15 2009, 06:30 PM:name=Clapp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Clapp @ May 15 2009, 06:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=38185:date=May 15 2009, 02:54 PM:name=Fella)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fella @ May 15 2009, 02:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=38183:date=May 15 2009, 02:52 PM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ May 15 2009, 02:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=38176:date=May 15 2009, 03:26 PM:name=FlyAtTheThigh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FlyAtTheThigh @ May 15 2009, 03:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=38171:date=May 15 2009, 04:09 PM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ May 15 2009, 04:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=38150:date=May 15 2009, 01:53 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ May 15 2009, 01:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I'd take Bedard in a heartbeat and start him in the playoffs over everyone on our roster -- unless Harden is throwing in the upper 90s at the time. Then I'd go Harden-Bedard-Z.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd like to know what Bedard has done to make you think this? I wouldn't take him over any starter we have, except Marshall.
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3.74 ERA playing all of his career in the AL and most in the AL East, 754 K in 781 innings. Those numbers are better than Z's career numbers, certainly more solid than Dempster's one good year, and better on the whole than Lilly's.
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Very good points. I might be able to get behind that. There's just something about him that screams "stay away" to me though.
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I agree
The Mariners GM threw him under the bus big time last year, said it was all they could do to get him to take the ball. He has Injury issues and I think he is a head case and a douche.
Not saying I wouldn't take him, he has great talent, but to me he would just be a lefty Rich Harden, tons of talent, but not a guy you can count on to be a true ace.
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Bingo. Like Ruby said, I'd only take him over Marshall.
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I'm sorry, but to take a guy like Dempster over Bedard is lunacy. Lunacy. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif[/img]
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So you're already writing off 2008 as a complete fluke I take it? Did you watch him pitch yesterday?
@TheBlogfines
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<!--quoteo(post=38193:date=May 15 2009, 05:27 PM:name=Clapp)-->QUOTE (Clapp @ May 15 2009, 05:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=38094:date=May 15 2009, 09:58 AM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ May 15 2009, 09:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Just to add to the above thought -- if we had someone like that, I think we would've won at least one of the playoff series from the last two seasons.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No we wouldn't have. Not a chance.
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If our game 1 pitcher threw a shutout in 07 or 08, we would have won at least one of those series, if not both.
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<!--quoteo(post=38210:date=May 15 2009, 07:21 PM:name=Clapp)-->QUOTE (Clapp @ May 15 2009, 07:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=38207:date=May 15 2009, 06:13 PM:name=FlyAtTheThigh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FlyAtTheThigh @ May 15 2009, 06:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=38194:date=May 15 2009, 06:30 PM:name=Clapp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Clapp @ May 15 2009, 06:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=38185:date=May 15 2009, 02:54 PM:name=Fella)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fella @ May 15 2009, 02:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=38183:date=May 15 2009, 02:52 PM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ May 15 2009, 02:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=38176:date=May 15 2009, 03:26 PM:name=FlyAtTheThigh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FlyAtTheThigh @ May 15 2009, 03:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=38171:date=May 15 2009, 04:09 PM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ May 15 2009, 04:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=38150:date=May 15 2009, 01:53 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ May 15 2009, 01:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I'd take Bedard in a heartbeat and start him in the playoffs over everyone on our roster -- unless Harden is throwing in the upper 90s at the time. Then I'd go Harden-Bedard-Z.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd like to know what Bedard has done to make you think this? I wouldn't take him over any starter we have, except Marshall.
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3.74 ERA playing all of his career in the AL and most in the AL East, 754 K in 781 innings. Those numbers are better than Z's career numbers, certainly more solid than Dempster's one good year, and better on the whole than Lilly's.
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Very good points. I might be able to get behind that. There's just something about him that screams "stay away" to me though.
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I agree
The Mariners GM threw him under the bus big time last year, said it was all they could do to get him to take the ball. He has Injury issues and I think he is a head case and a douche.
Not saying I wouldn't take him, he has great talent, but to me he would just be a lefty Rich Harden, tons of talent, but not a guy you can count on to be a true ace.
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Bingo. Like Ruby said, I'd only take him over Marshall.
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I'm sorry, but to take a guy like Dempster over Bedard is lunacy. Lunacy. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif[/img]
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So you're already writing off 2008 as a complete fluke I take it? Did you watch him pitch yesterday?
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You mean against the AAA Padres?
2008 was a fluke. Not saying Dempster can't be a decent #3 guy, but he isn't Bedard.
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