I'm having no fun this year

[Fly]

<!--quoteo(post=38141:date=May 15 2009, 02:46 PM:name=veryzer)-->QUOTE (veryzer @ May 15 2009, 02:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->how bad is lilly's post season career? he didn't even pitch last year, so he's 0-1, right? lilly is one guy i don't worry about.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

0-2 with a 6.61 ERA in 16.1 innings. He pitched a few years with Oakland.

[veryzer]

<!--quoteo(post=38146:date=May 15 2009, 01:49 PM:name=FlyAtTheThigh)-->QUOTE (FlyAtTheThigh @ May 15 2009, 01:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=38141:date=May 15 2009, 02:46 PM:name=veryzer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (veryzer @ May 15 2009, 02:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->how bad is lilly's post season career? he didn't even pitch last year, so he's 0-1, right? lilly is one guy i don't worry about.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

0-2 with a 6.61 ERA in 16.1 innings. He pitched a few years with Oakland.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

oh. ouch. nevermind.

[Butcher]

I'd take Bedard in a heartbeat and start him in the playoffs over everyone on our roster -- unless Harden is throwing in the upper 90s at the time. Then I'd go Harden-Bedard-Z.

[rok]

<!--quoteo(post=38150:date=May 15 2009, 01:53 PM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ May 15 2009, 01:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I'd take Bedard in a heartbeat and start him in the playoffs over everyone on our roster -- unless Harden is throwing in the upper 90s at the time. Then I'd go Harden-Bedard-Z.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think I'd still start Z over the others, provided he's healthy. I think he pitched well enough in his starts the past 2 playoffs to give me confidence that he's the guy. Plus, I'd rather not anger him.

[Fly]

And the other thing about Seattle as trading partners is that they may want to have someone take on Adrian Beltre's second half contract, which we would probably have the means to do and that would lessen the prospects that would have to be sent in return, you'd imagine. If we took on both deals, it saves Seattle a bit less than 10 million this year. I'd gladly send them Shark and a couple of others/cash. With the economy being what it is and that team's inevitable descent into third place, I think they're going to be looking to cut costs.

[Butcher]

<!--quoteo(post=38152:date=May 15 2009, 01:58 PM:name=FlyAtTheThigh)-->QUOTE (FlyAtTheThigh @ May 15 2009, 01:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->And the other thing about Seattle as trading partners is that they may want to have someone take on Adrian Beltre's second half contract, which we would probably have the means to do and that would lessen the prospects that would have to be sent in return, you'd imagine. If we took on both deals, it saves Seattle a bit less than 10 million this year. I'd gladly send them Shark and a couple of others/cash. With the economy being what it is and that team's inevitable descent into third place, I think they're going to be looking to cut costs.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Beltre could be a decent candidate to bounce back once in the NL. And if we could get the deal done soon (unlikely), then he'd be great to fill in for Ramirez.

[Fly]

<!--quoteo(post=38153:date=May 15 2009, 02:59 PM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ May 15 2009, 02:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=38152:date=May 15 2009, 01:58 PM:name=FlyAtTheThigh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FlyAtTheThigh @ May 15 2009, 01:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->And the other thing about Seattle as trading partners is that they may want to have someone take on Adrian Beltre's second half contract, which we would probably have the means to do and that would lessen the prospects that would have to be sent in return, you'd imagine. If we took on both deals, it saves Seattle a bit less than 10 million this year. I'd gladly send them Shark and a couple of others/cash. With the economy being what it is and that team's inevitable descent into third place, I think they're going to be looking to cut costs.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Beltre could be a decent candidate to bounce back once in the NL. And if we could get the deal done soon (unlikely), then he'd be great to fill in for Ramirez.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I can't imagine anything of this nature getting done before mid to late June. The Mariners aren't going to punt on their season this early. That said, the earlier that the move were done, the more money it'd save Seattle.

[ruby23]

<!--quoteo(post=38150:date=May 15 2009, 01:53 PM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ May 15 2009, 01:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I'd take Bedard in a heartbeat and start him in the playoffs over everyone on our roster -- unless Harden is throwing in the upper 90s at the time. Then I'd go Harden-Bedard-Z.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd like to know what Bedard has done to make you think this? I wouldn't take him over any starter we have, except Marshall.

[Fly]

<!--quoteo(post=38171:date=May 15 2009, 04:09 PM:name=ruby23)-->QUOTE (ruby23 @ May 15 2009, 04:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=38150:date=May 15 2009, 01:53 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ May 15 2009, 01:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I'd take Bedard in a heartbeat and start him in the playoffs over everyone on our roster -- unless Harden is throwing in the upper 90s at the time. Then I'd go Harden-Bedard-Z.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd like to know what Bedard has done to make you think this? I wouldn't take him over any starter we have, except Marshall.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

3.74 ERA playing all of his career in the AL and most in the AL East, 754 K in 781 innings. Those numbers are better than Z's career numbers, certainly more solid than Dempster's one good year, and better on the whole than Lilly's.

[Butcher]

<!--quoteo(post=38176:date=May 15 2009, 03:26 PM:name=FlyAtTheThigh)-->QUOTE (FlyAtTheThigh @ May 15 2009, 03:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=38171:date=May 15 2009, 04:09 PM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ May 15 2009, 04:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=38150:date=May 15 2009, 01:53 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ May 15 2009, 01:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I'd take Bedard in a heartbeat and start him in the playoffs over everyone on our roster -- unless Harden is throwing in the upper 90s at the time. Then I'd go Harden-Bedard-Z.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd like to know what Bedard has done to make you think this? I wouldn't take him over any starter we have, except Marshall.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

3.74 ERA playing all of his career in the AL and most in the AL East, 754 K in 781 innings. Those numbers are better than Z's career numbers, certainly more solid than Dempster's one good year, and better on the whole than Lilly's.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What Fly said.

[rok]

<!--quoteo(post=38176:date=May 15 2009, 03:26 PM:name=FlyAtTheThigh)-->QUOTE (FlyAtTheThigh @ May 15 2009, 03:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=38171:date=May 15 2009, 04:09 PM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ May 15 2009, 04:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=38150:date=May 15 2009, 01:53 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ May 15 2009, 01:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I'd take Bedard in a heartbeat and start him in the playoffs over everyone on our roster -- unless Harden is throwing in the upper 90s at the time. Then I'd go Harden-Bedard-Z.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd like to know what Bedard has done to make you think this? I wouldn't take him over any starter we have, except Marshall.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

3.74 ERA playing all of his career in the AL and most in the AL East, 754 K in 781 innings. Those numbers are better than Z's career numbers, certainly more solid than Dempster's one good year, and better on the whole than Lilly's.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, he's also never completed a 200 inning season, and has some durability issues. Not saying he isn't talented, but the guy has serious flaws too.

[Fly]

<!--quoteo(post=38178:date=May 15 2009, 04:31 PM:name=rok)-->QUOTE (rok @ May 15 2009, 04:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=38176:date=May 15 2009, 03:26 PM:name=FlyAtTheThigh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FlyAtTheThigh @ May 15 2009, 03:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=38171:date=May 15 2009, 04:09 PM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ May 15 2009, 04:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=38150:date=May 15 2009, 01:53 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ May 15 2009, 01:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I'd take Bedard in a heartbeat and start him in the playoffs over everyone on our roster -- unless Harden is throwing in the upper 90s at the time. Then I'd go Harden-Bedard-Z.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd like to know what Bedard has done to make you think this? I wouldn't take him over any starter we have, except Marshall.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

3.74 ERA playing all of his career in the AL and most in the AL East, 754 K in 781 innings. Those numbers are better than Z's career numbers, certainly more solid than Dempster's one good year, and better on the whole than Lilly's.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, he's also never completed a 200 inning season, and has some durability issues. Not saying he isn't talented, but the guy has serious flaws too.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Oh, no doubt. There'd be risks involved with him being on the team. But that's not to say that the pitchers that I listed for us don't have flaws as well (Z's scary increase in walks + hamstring injury, Dempster essentially having one good year). It's hard to find a complete pitcher, and the complete ones are generally not available.

[kbwsb]

<!--quoteo(post=38179:date=May 15 2009, 03:34 PM:name=FlyAtTheThigh)-->QUOTE (FlyAtTheThigh @ May 15 2009, 03:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=38178:date=May 15 2009, 04:31 PM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ May 15 2009, 04:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=38176:date=May 15 2009, 03:26 PM:name=FlyAtTheThigh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FlyAtTheThigh @ May 15 2009, 03:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=38171:date=May 15 2009, 04:09 PM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ May 15 2009, 04:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=38150:date=May 15 2009, 01:53 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ May 15 2009, 01:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I'd take Bedard in a heartbeat and start him in the playoffs over everyone on our roster -- unless Harden is throwing in the upper 90s at the time. Then I'd go Harden-Bedard-Z.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd like to know what Bedard has done to make you think this? I wouldn't take him over any starter we have, except Marshall.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

3.74 ERA playing all of his career in the AL and most in the AL East, 754 K in 781 innings. Those numbers are better than Z's career numbers, certainly more solid than Dempster's one good year, and better on the whole than Lilly's.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, he's also never completed a 200 inning season, and has some durability issues. Not saying he isn't talented, but the guy has serious flaws too.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Oh, no doubt. There'd be risks involved with him being on the team. But that's not to say that the pitchers that I listed for us don't have flaws as well (Z's scary increase in walks + hamstring injury, Dempster essentially having one good year). It's hard to find a complete pitcher, <b>and the complete ones are generally not available.</b>
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, 2 of the very best pitchers in baseball have been "available" two off-seasons in a row now, Johan Santana and C.C. Sabathia.

[ruby23]

<!--quoteo(post=38176:date=May 15 2009, 03:26 PM:name=FlyAtTheThigh)-->QUOTE (FlyAtTheThigh @ May 15 2009, 03:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=38171:date=May 15 2009, 04:09 PM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ May 15 2009, 04:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=38150:date=May 15 2009, 01:53 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ May 15 2009, 01:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I'd take Bedard in a heartbeat and start him in the playoffs over everyone on our roster -- unless Harden is throwing in the upper 90s at the time. Then I'd go Harden-Bedard-Z.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd like to know what Bedard has done to make you think this? I wouldn't take him over any starter we have, except Marshall.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

3.74 ERA playing all of his career in the AL and most in the AL East, 754 K in 781 innings. Those numbers are better than Z's career numbers, certainly more solid than Dempster's one good year, and better on the whole than Lilly's.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Very good points. I might be able to get behind that. There's just something about him that screams "stay away" to me though.

[Fella]

<!--quoteo(post=38183:date=May 15 2009, 02:52 PM:name=ruby23)-->QUOTE (ruby23 @ May 15 2009, 02:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=38176:date=May 15 2009, 03:26 PM:name=FlyAtTheThigh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FlyAtTheThigh @ May 15 2009, 03:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=38171:date=May 15 2009, 04:09 PM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ May 15 2009, 04:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=38150:date=May 15 2009, 01:53 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ May 15 2009, 01:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I'd take Bedard in a heartbeat and start him in the playoffs over everyone on our roster -- unless Harden is throwing in the upper 90s at the time. Then I'd go Harden-Bedard-Z.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd like to know what Bedard has done to make you think this? I wouldn't take him over any starter we have, except Marshall.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

3.74 ERA playing all of his career in the AL and most in the AL East, 754 K in 781 innings. Those numbers are better than Z's career numbers, certainly more solid than Dempster's one good year, and better on the whole than Lilly's.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Very good points. I might be able to get behind that. There's just something about him that screams "stay away" to me though.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I agree

The Mariners GM threw him under the bus big time last year, said it was all they could do to get him to take the ball. He has Injury issues and I think he is a head case and a douche.

Not saying I wouldn't take him, he has great talent, but to me he would just be a lefty Rich Harden, tons of talent, but not a guy you can count on to be a true ace.