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<!--quoteo(post=35767:date=May 5 2009, 03:48 PM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ May 5 2009, 03:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=35766:date=May 5 2009, 03:45 PM:name=Giff)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Giff @ May 5 2009, 03:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=35759:date=May 5 2009, 03:39 PM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ May 5 2009, 03:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Strawberry first 9 years:
Rookie-of-the-year. 9 straight All-star teams. World championship. Nine-year average OPS+ of 144. Top ten in MVP 4 times.
That is not an average player. That is not an overrated player. That is a superstar.
From that point on, he started averaging about 35 games per year, and hitting about .140.
Gee, ya think that there Kurtis Blow might've had something to do with it?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It was 8 All-Star teams, not 9. Just so you know.
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Yes, good point. Eight-time all-stars are "good, nice role players, not much more," as Ruby states.
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I didn't make a point. I was just correcting the incorrect statistic you gave. Good try though.
The thing you need to remember is that all Cardinals fans and all White Sox fans are very bad people. It's a fact that has been scientifically proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. Being a Cubs fan is the only path to rightousness and piousness. Cardinal and White Sox fans exist to be the dark, diabolical forces that oppose us. They are the yin to our yang, the Joker to our Batman, the demon to our angel, the insurgence to our freedom, the oil to our water, the club to our baby seal. Their happiness occurs only in direct conflict with everything that is pure and good in this world.
-Dirk
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<!--quoteo(post=35767:date=May 5 2009, 03:48 PM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ May 5 2009, 03:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=35766:date=May 5 2009, 03:45 PM:name=Giff)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Giff @ May 5 2009, 03:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=35759:date=May 5 2009, 03:39 PM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ May 5 2009, 03:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Strawberry first 9 years:
Rookie-of-the-year. 9 straight All-star teams. World championship. Nine-year average OPS+ of 144. Top ten in MVP 4 times.
That is not an average player. That is not an overrated player. That is a superstar.
From that point on, he started averaging about 35 games per year, and hitting about .140.
Gee, ya think that there Kurtis Blow might've had something to do with it?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It was 8 All-Star teams, not 9. Just so you know.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, good point. Eight-time all-stars are "good, nice role players, not much more," as Ruby states.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He also played on teams with Foster, Kingman, Hernandez, Carter, Johnson, Dykstra, and McReynolds. He was a fine player and an All Star, doesn't mean he wasn't a role player. He was never really 'the guy', there was always someone else who was.
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So...are we ever going to hear about PcB's actual player comparison?
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<!--quoteo(post=35769:date=May 5 2009, 03:52 PM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ May 5 2009, 03:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=35752:date=May 5 2009, 03:31 PM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ May 5 2009, 03:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=35698:date=May 5 2009, 02:29 PM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ May 5 2009, 02:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=35691:date=May 5 2009, 02:22 PM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ May 5 2009, 02:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=35688:date=May 5 2009, 02:20 PM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ May 5 2009, 02:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=35679:date=May 5 2009, 02:13 PM:name=veryzer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (veryzer @ May 5 2009, 02:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=35674:date=May 5 2009, 02:07 PM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ May 5 2009, 02:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->6 of those 10 guys won MVP's, while Colavito placed in the top 5 numerous times, and Strawberry finished 2nd once. I'd say they're slightly better than "decent or outright average," as a group.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
tom brunansky and troy glaus are on that list. maris was a three year wonder. strawberry was vastly overrated.
willie hernandez won an mvp. stew on that for a while.
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Brunansky and Glaus are/were very good players...definitely MUCH better than decent or average. And they're the two <i>worst</i> players of the 10 people on the list. The other 8 were all great stars.
Strawberry was not remotely overrated. He was an absolute superstar until he became a hard-core cocaine addict, mid-career.
Maris won 2 MVP awards, won rings with two different organizations, and broke the greatest record in sports. There have been worse careers.
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Aside from Bonds, the rest of those players weren't even the best players on their own team either, just sayin'.
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Which means absolutely zero. Lou Gehrig wasn't the best player on his team. Neither was Johnny Bench, Nolan Ryan, or Steve Carlton.
What was your point?
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My point is that they weren't the best players on their own team. In fact, some of those guys played on teams where they weren;t in the top 5 on their team. Very few of those listed were make or break type players,<b> they were good, nice role players, not much more.</b>
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Yessir, solid point. <b>Six</b> of the ten guys won MVP awards. Two of them are in the Hall of Fame. One of them is in the "greatest player of all-time" argument.
Yessir, role players.
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I can not wait for the day Adam Dunn is elected to the HOF, it'll be glorious.
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<!--quoteo(post=35770:date=May 5 2009, 02:56 PM:name=Giff)-->QUOTE (Giff @ May 5 2009, 02:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=35767:date=May 5 2009, 03:48 PM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ May 5 2009, 03:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=35766:date=May 5 2009, 03:45 PM:name=Giff)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Giff @ May 5 2009, 03:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=35759:date=May 5 2009, 03:39 PM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ May 5 2009, 03:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Strawberry first 9 years:
Rookie-of-the-year. 9 straight All-star teams. World championship. Nine-year average OPS+ of 144. Top ten in MVP 4 times.
That is not an average player. That is not an overrated player. That is a superstar.
From that point on, he started averaging about 35 games per year, and hitting about .140.
Gee, ya think that there Kurtis Blow might've had something to do with it?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It was 8 All-Star teams, not 9. Just so you know.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, good point. Eight-time all-stars are "good, nice role players, not much more," as Ruby states.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I didn't make a point. I was just correcting the incorrect statistic you gave. Good try though.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif[/img]
@TheBlogfines
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Sigh...
I was going to go through that list KB posted and critique it, but I don't know the ins and outs of players like Rocky Colavito and Boog Powell. The fact that Troy Glaus is on the list leads me to believe a lot about what the list represents. And that is just shear numbers listed most comprable to other numbers. Once again, context has been avoided. Tsk tsk. It's easy to say so and so are comparable when they exist only on a spreadsheet. But reality tells a different story.
If anyone really, truly believes that Satan is comparible to Bonds or Killebrew or Jackson (overrated) than I don't know what to tell you.
I do find it intersting that KB didn't include the other comparison listed:
<ol type='1'>[*] Pat Burrell (892)[*] Gorman Thomas (876)[*] Hank Sauer (872)[*] Pete Incaviglia (869)[*] Kevin Mitchell (869)[*] Jesse Barfield (869)[*] Wally Post (868)[*] Gus Zernial (866)[*] Cliff Johnson (864)[*] J.D. Drew (856)</ol>Not quite as impressive I may say.
Also...
<b><!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec--></b>
<b>Age Based Similarity Scores</b>
These values are computed in the exact same manner as the above manner. However, instead of comparing an active player's career to the entire career of retired players, we only compare the active player's career to the retired player's career when they were the same age as the active player. This gives more interesting lists for the active players because we get an idea of what path the player is taking.
This doesn't mean that Vladimir Guerrero was as valuable as Willie Mays over his first three seasons - just that their numbers are similar. The league's offensive levels and defensive value affect those measurements.
<b><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--></b>
If Angelo had picked McClellin, I would have been expecting to hear by training camp that kid has stage 4 cancer, is actually 5'2" 142 lbs, is a chick who played in a 7 - 0 defensive scheme who only rotated in on downs which were 3 and 34 yds + so is not expecting to play a down in the NFL until the sex change is complete and she puts on another 100 lbs. + but this is Emery's first pick so he'll get a pass with a bit of questioning. - 1060Ivy
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Has anyone on this site ever said that Dunn is a future Hall of Famer? Even the most rabid Dunn supporter isn't going to make that claim.
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You know what? I bet Adam Dunn ends up being a hall of famer. Just a hunch.
If Angelo had picked McClellin, I would have been expecting to hear by training camp that kid has stage 4 cancer, is actually 5'2" 142 lbs, is a chick who played in a 7 - 0 defensive scheme who only rotated in on downs which were 3 and 34 yds + so is not expecting to play a down in the NFL until the sex change is complete and she puts on another 100 lbs. + but this is Emery's first pick so he'll get a pass with a bit of questioning. - 1060Ivy
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Strawberry was one of my all time favorite players. It was beautiful to watch him hit. I think it shows the weakness of stats that Dunn and Strawberry seem so comparable. Strawberry's numbers may not be as impressive by today's standards, but he was a much better hitter than Dunn. And of course, much better in the field.
I like you guys a lot.
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Meh. If that list were the comparable player list of Ibanez or Abreu or whatever other outfielder was in greater favor around here, people would be falling over themselves to discuss their greatness. It is what it is.
I don't find those player comparison lists worth much in the first place, though.
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<!--quoteo(post=35775:date=May 5 2009, 04:03 PM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ May 5 2009, 04:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->So...are we ever going to hear about PcB's actual player comparison?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nah, I like where this is going...
"I'm not sure I know what ball cheese or crotch rot is, exactly -- or if there is a difference between the two. Don't post photos, please..."
- Butcher
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<!--quoteo(post=35793:date=May 5 2009, 05:17 PM:name=PcB)-->QUOTE (PcB @ May 5 2009, 05:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=35775:date=May 5 2009, 04:03 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ May 5 2009, 04:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->So...are we ever going to hear about PcB's actual player comparison?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nah, I like where this is going...
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You suck.
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<!--quoteo(post=35794:date=May 5 2009, 05:19 PM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ May 5 2009, 05:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=35793:date=May 5 2009, 05:17 PM:name=PcB)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PcB @ May 5 2009, 05:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=35775:date=May 5 2009, 04:03 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ May 5 2009, 04:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->So...are we ever going to hear about PcB's actual player comparison?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nah, I like where this is going...
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You suck.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I texted it to you last night...
"I'm not sure I know what ball cheese or crotch rot is, exactly -- or if there is a difference between the two. Don't post photos, please..."
- Butcher
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<!--quoteo(post=35795:date=May 5 2009, 05:22 PM:name=PcB)-->QUOTE (PcB @ May 5 2009, 05:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=35794:date=May 5 2009, 05:19 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ May 5 2009, 05:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=35793:date=May 5 2009, 05:17 PM:name=PcB)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PcB @ May 5 2009, 05:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=35775:date=May 5 2009, 04:03 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ May 5 2009, 04:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->So...are we ever going to hear about PcB's actual player comparison?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nah, I like where this is going...
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You suck.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I texted it to you last night...
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You must not have my new phone number. I never got it.
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<!--quoteo(post=35796:date=May 5 2009, 05:23 PM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ May 5 2009, 05:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=35795:date=May 5 2009, 05:22 PM:name=PcB)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PcB @ May 5 2009, 05:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=35794:date=May 5 2009, 05:19 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ May 5 2009, 05:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=35793:date=May 5 2009, 05:17 PM:name=PcB)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PcB @ May 5 2009, 05:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=35775:date=May 5 2009, 04:03 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ May 5 2009, 04:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->So...are we ever going to hear about PcB's actual player comparison?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nah, I like where this is going...
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You suck.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I texted it to you last night...
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You must not have my new phone number. I never got it.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was wondering why all of my late night propositions weren't being replied to.
"I'm not sure I know what ball cheese or crotch rot is, exactly -- or if there is a difference between the two. Don't post photos, please..."
- Butcher
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