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Interesting bit from Rob Neyer regarding our roster situation in regards to David Patton, and some interesting info regarding Jake Fox:
<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->Cubs playing with 24-man roster
May 21, 2009 4:18 PM
This post from Bruce Miles is a few days old, but still highly relevant ...
One of the more curious aspects of covering the Cubs all these years has been the organization's insistence on carrying 12 pitchers at the major-league level. It was that way under Dusty Baker when he was field manager, and it's like that now under Lou Piniella.
I could see the need for 12 pitchers -- well, maybe not -- if Lou was actually going to use 12 pitchers. But right now, the Cubs are carrying 12 while using only 11. In other words, they have essentially an 11-man pitching staff without benefit of the extra position player.
The guy the Cubs are trying to hide here is rookie David Patton, the Rule 5 kid out of Colorado they obtained at the winter meetings in a trade with the Reds. Having Patton on the roster would be all well and good if the Cubs were actually going to use him. As it is, Patton hasn't appeared in a game since May 9 at Milwaukee, when he gave up 3 hits, 1 walk and 2 runs in two-thirds of an inning. Before that, Patton pitched May 5 and May 1. Since the 9th, he's warmed up, but he hasn't gotten into a game.
--snip--
Although the offense has found a spark of late, the Cubs still could use the extra bat. How about calling longtime organization guy Jake Fox, who has been atop all three Triple Crown categories as he completely destroys the Pacific Coast League at Class AAA Iowa? Now ol' Jake isn't going to give you much defense. Heck the Cubs have tried him at catcher, the infield corners and the outfield corners, and they haven't much liked what they've seen. But the people I've talked with say Jake is flat-out a major-league hitter. He could give D-Lee a break at first base and come out later for defense. With Mike Fontenot slumping badly, you could put Jake at third to start a ballgame and get him out later. And, of course, he could pinch hit and get you a knock.
Jake is having one of those years. Or at the very least, one of those springs. Actually, he's doing better than that. He might be enjoying one of the great springs in Pacific Coast League history. In 35 games, Jake's batting .431/.513/.954 with 17 homers and 50 runs batted in. I've never used this word in this context, but Jake's numbers this spring are sick. And he's not some Triple-A geezer; ol' Jake won't turn 27 until July.
Nevertheless, putting Jake at third base isn't a fantastic idea. <i><!--coloro:#000080--> <!--/coloro-->From the Baseball America Prospect Handbook, perhaps the most scathing comment they've ever published:
There are scouts who swear that Fox's plus power would produce 25 homers if he got the chance to play every day in the majors. The problem is that those longballs would come with a low batting average, plenty of strikeouts and absolutely no defensive ability ... Fox can crush any fastball out of any park, in part because he sits on fastballs and sells out for power every time. He can't handle breaking balls, won't work counts and rarely listens to batting coaches. Power is Fox's only tool, and one scout described his defense as "a notch above horrific."<!--colorc-->
<!--/colorc--></i>
Fox isn't going to play third base in the majors; not for the Cubs or anyone else. There may well be a place for him in the majors as a part-time first baseman or pinch-hitter, though. There probably should be a place for him. More the point, Miles is exactly right: It's simply unconscionable for a contending team in a competitive division to devote a roster spot to a player who's not allowed to play. I don't know if young Jake Fox deserves that spot. But someone certainly does.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Really, the decision to stash Patton, and let it play out for this long, is ridiculous. I'm not sure if Hendry is forcing Lou's hand on his one, but it's obvious that Lou isn't going to play him. At the very least, we need to jettison him by the time we get into interleague play so we can call up Fox to DH... outside of that, there doesn't seem to be much of a chance of Fox getting called up unless Lee gets injured.
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Well, we knew all that about Fox.
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I would definitely like him up though right now for interleague play and to just help give us an offensive spark. I just don't know if we can really start him anywhere.
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I wonder if it has ever occurred to Fox that his entire future depends on whether he can be bothered to learn to field a position?
I've read countless baseball stories over the years of players, coaches, etc. saying that defense is the one area where practice and hard work can make a noticeable difference.
He <i>could</i> get better at it. He must not want to badly enough.
There's nothing better than to realize that the good things about youth don't end with youth itself. It's a matter of realizing that life can be renewed every day you get out of bed without baggage. It's tough to get there, but it's better than the dark thoughts. -Lance
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<!--quoteo(post=39536:date=May 22 2009, 07:04 PM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ May 22 2009, 07:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I wonder if it has ever occurred to Fox that his entire future depends on whether he can be bothered to learn to field a position?
I've read countless baseball stories over the years of players, coaches, etc. saying that defense is the one area where practice and hard work can make a noticeable difference.
He <i>could</i> get better at it. He must not want to badly enough.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He spent a ton of time this spring taking groundballs at 3rd and 1st. Theriot constantly worked with him, everybody has been. He's just a big awkward sized guy and can't do it very well. It's not like you can just be a great infielder by practicing a lot. Some guys just can't do it.
I think what he's done as a hitter shows how hard he works to get better. When he first got a shot with us, he swung at like every single first pitch. He was not patient at all. He's completely changed his approach as a hitter.
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<!--quoteo(post=39539:date=May 22 2009, 08:11 PM:name=Clapp)-->QUOTE (Clapp @ May 22 2009, 08:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=39536:date=May 22 2009, 07:04 PM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ May 22 2009, 07:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I wonder if it has ever occurred to Fox that his entire future depends on whether he can be bothered to learn to field a position?
I've read countless baseball stories over the years of players, coaches, etc. saying that defense is the one area where practice and hard work can make a noticeable difference.
He <i>could</i> get better at it. He must not want to badly enough.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He spent a ton of time this spring taking groundballs at 3rd and 1st. Theriot constantly worked with him, everybody has been. He's just a big awkward sized guy and can't do it very well. It's not like you can just be a great infielder by practicing a lot. Some guys just can't do it.
I think what he's done as a hitter shows how hard he works to get better. When he first got a shot with us, he swung at like every single first pitch. He was not patient at all. He's completely changed his approach as a hitter.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm glad he seems to be trying. Honestly though, if you were <i>that</i> close to the demarcation line between career AAA guy and MLB player, and the only thing holding you back was that you were truly abominable fielder, wouldn't it become an <i>obsession</i> to improve that aspect of your game?
Like, not take a few extra grounders with Theriot, but a serious 8 hours a day, non-stop, sleep-with-a-glove-on, watch video constantly, do exercises that make you more limber, study ballet or karate or jazz dance or anything that would add a slight touch of grace or agility or balance, hire a personal coach, anything/everything you could do? Even if it only improved you from atrocious to barely acceptable?
There's nothing better than to realize that the good things about youth don't end with youth itself. It's a matter of realizing that life can be renewed every day you get out of bed without baggage. It's tough to get there, but it's better than the dark thoughts. -Lance
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KB,
Have you ever thought it might not be that cut and dry? What if he IS doing that and still can't field worth a shit? Do you think he doesn't understand the financial implications of becoming a big leaguer? Is it possible that he simply can't learn to field? Is it possible that idea could enter your head? Learning is not something that can simply be defined universally. It's certainly possible it is something he can not learn. It also possible it is something he can't do well, and that is simply it. Do you not have things you really wish you could do well that you simply can't master? Think about it a little bit.
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<!--quoteo(post=39544:date=May 22 2009, 08:34 PM:name=johnr42)-->QUOTE (johnr42 @ May 22 2009, 08:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->KB,
Have you ever thought it might not be that cut and dry? What if he IS doing that and still can't field worth a shit? Do you think he doesn't understand the financial implications of becoming a big leaguer? Is it possible that he simply can't learn to field? Is it possible that idea could enter your head? Learning is not something that can simply be defined universally. It's certainly possible it is something he can not learn. It also possible it is something he can't do well, and that is simply it. Do you not have things you really wish you could do well that you simply can't master? Think about it a little bit.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
100%
I'm just wondering out loud. There are very few things in actual life that are as "cut and dried" as the Jake Fox situation, though. It's not complex. Indeed, it's as black and white as you can get.
There's nothing better than to realize that the good things about youth don't end with youth itself. It's a matter of realizing that life can be renewed every day you get out of bed without baggage. It's tough to get there, but it's better than the dark thoughts. -Lance
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<!--quoteo(post=39547:date=May 22 2009, 08:39 PM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ May 22 2009, 08:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=39544:date=May 22 2009, 08:34 PM:name=johnr42)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (johnr42 @ May 22 2009, 08:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->KB,
Have you ever thought it might not be that cut and dry? What if he IS doing that and still can't field worth a shit? Do you think he doesn't understand the financial implications of becoming a big leaguer? Is it possible that he simply can't learn to field? Is it possible that idea could enter your head? Learning is not something that can simply be defined universally. It's certainly possible it is something he can not learn. It also possible it is something he can't do well, and that is simply it. Do you not have things you really wish you could do well that you simply can't master? Think about it a little bit.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
100%
I'm just wondering out loud. There are very few things in actual life that are as "cut and dried" as the Jake Fox situation, though. It's not complex. Indeed, it's as black and white as you can get.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No KB, it isn't as cut and dry as you think. The guy played catcher his entire life until a few years ago and he played catcher pretty poorly at that. It has been said in numerous reports that he is a bad fielder, it was even said when he was drafted. He was drafted for his bat, not his glove. The hope was that he would become an average ML catcher, but that wasn't happening. So we tried moving him to different positions and it hasn't worked. Like John said, maybe he is just a bad fielder and that is it. I could take all the Yoga classes I wanted and take all the grounders I could and I guarantee I am not picking a grounder at third base off the bat of Pujols. You seem to think that fielding is easy...it isn't!
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Shaq's been shooting probably 500 free throws a day for 15 years, and still can't do it. I highly doubt Fox isn't <i>trying</i> to get better there.
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<!--quoteo(post=39555:date=May 22 2009, 09:05 PM:name=Clapp)-->QUOTE (Clapp @ May 22 2009, 09:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Shaq's been shooting probably 500 free throws a day for 15 years, and still can't do it. I highly doubt Fox isn't <i>trying</i> to get better there.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Bingo
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<!--quoteo(post=39555:date=May 22 2009, 09:05 PM:name=Clapp)-->QUOTE (Clapp @ May 22 2009, 09:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Shaq's been shooting probably 500 free throws a day for 15 years, and still can't do it. I highly doubt Fox isn't <i>trying</i> to get better there.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I understand exactly what you guys are saying. Believe me. In fact, that was my own personal ceiling in baseball; I played 3rd and could always hit a ton. But as time went on, the position became almost a totally reflex position...they don't call it the hot corner for nothin'.
I went from a good fielder to a bad one, the higher up i went, until I simply wasn't good enough anymore.
However, Fox is a hell of a lot more athletic that me.
And for every Shaq example, there are 2 Tony Gwynn/Yogi Berra counter-examples of guys who <i>drastically</i> improved their fielding in their 20's, simply by dedicating themselves to it.
There's nothing better than to realize that the good things about youth don't end with youth itself. It's a matter of realizing that life can be renewed every day you get out of bed without baggage. It's tough to get there, but it's better than the dark thoughts. -Lance
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I get where KB is coming from. There are somethings that I feel could be impossible for a person to improve on such as hitting a fastball. Either you have the reaction time/reflexes or you don't. Now, the same could be said for reacting to a line drive at you, but at the same time Fox hasn't been able to become a passable left fielder either.
I don't know for sure cause I've never tried, but if I really tried to hit a major league fastball I'm not sure I could even get a bat on the ball. However, I'm confident that I could learn to be a passable left fielder over time with practice.
I'm not trying to say that Fox should be able to do the same. I'm just saying it's hard to wrap my mind around the idea that someone may not be able to improve themself over time and practice. I thnk KB may feel the same way.
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Fox up, Cotts down. I assume you all know by now.
From the Trib:
<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->By Paul Sullivan
In a shake up of their roster, the Cubs made three moves today to help their lineup and their pen.
Jake Fox, who is hitting .423 with 17 home runs and 50 runs batted in for Triple-A Iowa over 40 games, was called up. Joining the infielder from Iowa is shortstop Andres Blanco and left-handed reliever Jason Waddell. Blanco is hitting .314 with 4 home runs and 25 RBI. <!--coloro:#000080--><!--/coloro-->Waddell has made 18 appearances for Iowa and has a 5.40 earned-run average.<!--colorc-->
<!--/colorc-->(odd move)
To make room for Fox, Blanco and Waddell, the Cubs put Aaron Miles on the 15-day disabled list and sent down fan-favorite Bobby Scales and lefty reliever Neal Cotts, who has struggled to get out left-handed batters this season.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There's nothing better than to realize that the good things about youth don't end with youth itself. It's a matter of realizing that life can be renewed every day you get out of bed without baggage. It's tough to get there, but it's better than the dark thoughts. -Lance
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<!--quoteo(post=40321:date=May 27 2009, 10:41 AM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ May 27 2009, 10:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Fox up, Cotts down. I assume you all know by now.
From the Trib:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <!--quotec-->By Paul Sullivan
In a shake up of their roster, the Cubs made three moves today to help their lineup and their pen.
Jake Fox, who is hitting .423 with 17 home runs and 50 runs batted in for Triple-A Iowa over 40 games, was called up. Joining the infielder from Iowa is shortstop Andres Blanco and left-handed reliever Jason Waddell. Blanco is hitting .314 with 4 home runs and 25 RBI. <!--coloro:#000080--> <!--/coloro-->Waddell has made 18 appearances for Iowa and has a 5.40 earned-run average.<!--colorc-->
<!--/colorc-->(odd move)
To make room for Fox, Blanco and Waddell, the Cubs put Aaron Miles on the 15-day disabled list and sent down fan-favorite Bobby Scales and lefty reliever Neal Cotts, who has struggled to get out left-handed batters this season.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm shocked to find out Cotts still has options.
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