Posts: 157
Threads: 19
Joined: May 2009
Reputation:
0
I posted this elsewhere and the responses sucked. Basically no one saw my point and it turned into a Mark DeRosa thread.
Anyway, the gist of what I'll write below is that I think having charismatic leaders on the team is of great benefit. This doesn't mean all players on a successful team should be grandstander, but rather we could use some guys that take charge and do it with energy. Also, I think the best thing for a team like ours--who appears stagnated-- would be to really shake things up. I'm not sure how, but it may help re-develop us.
With that said, here we go...keep in mind that these are just ideas and observations, and I'm merely trying to solicit opinions on whether or not team chemistry and energy is important.
---
First of all, this team sorely misses a player the caliber of Sammy Sosa. In fact, I think he may be looked at as the next Ron Santo in terms of an invaluable player. I hope I'm wrong. But steroid allegations aside, Sosa was someone who you could count on. Sure he went through his struggles in 2003, but he was a man who played the game hard. Yes, he wanted those beefy numbers, but he also wanted to rile everyone up in a good way. The way he sprinted out to the outfield, he was a good showman--but at the same time wanted to create energy.
We have no one on this team (and haven't since he left) that can do that sort of thing. Lee--boring. Ramirez--boring. Soriano--boring. All have had their successes on the field, but as far as energy and excitement, they are lacking.
Secondly, and building on that last point, I have always viewed A.J. Pierzynski as the reason the White Sox won the series in 05. Now for the record, I can't stand the prick. He was the kind of guy that all other MLB teams hate, but he plays to win. I remember during the Angels series that year, he hit a big double. And when the cameras jumped to him on second base--he was acting like a mad-man out there. People see that sort of aggression and energy, and it becomes contagious throughout the team. Bradley could be that sort of player--but he is too much of an excuse maker--and way too inconsistent.
I remember a few years back (I think it was 2003) that the Cubs were in a 1 run deficit heading to the 9th. Sosa stepped up to the plate, and he was looking to shoot one to the lake; and he did. That tied up the game. The crowd was going ballistic, absolutely buzzing. Alou comes up and feeds off that energy and guess what? Walk-off home run. I used to feel that sort of magic, and even though the past few years have been successful, it feels too corporate for me.
This all brings me to my last point--the Garciaparra factor. I am pointing to the fact that sometimes a big move such as getting rid of your "best" player or a fan favorite is just what the doctor ordered. Don't they have a term for it? The Patrick Ewing theory? Look, I am not going to say trade Lee, Soriano or whoever else. Rather, I'll just throw it out there that sometimes the best thing that can happen to a team is to make a major move.
To be concise, I feel that this team needs some sort of energy influx into the roster. Whether it be through player or coaching changes--that still remains to be seen.
"Last year, I was sort of a kid and I was a little scared, I ain't scared any more."
Quote:- Hank Aaron
Posts: 4,684
Threads: 78
Joined: Dec 2008
Reputation:
0
i totaly agree with everything you said about sosa. we may never see a player like him on the cubs again and that's a shame.
and i'm all for a shakeup. i just don't see where.
Wang.
Posts: 209
Threads: 2
Joined: Dec 2008
Reputation:
0
When is Aramis expected back? He really makes a difference in this lineup. He is the guy who has that Sosa-like quality of being able to singlehandedly carry the team. Lee did - for one season - but that's what this team nees... a healthy Aramis.
Posts: 14,116
Threads: 90
Joined: Nov 2008
Reputation:
0
This team still has a chance to be good, but it just seems to be missing something. Talent? Attitude? Leadership? Maybe all of the above.
Posts: 4,684
Threads: 78
Joined: Dec 2008
Reputation:
0
<!--quoteo(post=41397:date=Jun 1 2009, 10:07 AM:name=rok)-->QUOTE (rok @ Jun 1 2009, 10:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->This team still has a chance to be good, but it just seems to be missing something. Talent? Attitude? Leadership? Maybe all of the above.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
what's missing is that feeling that they can win any game any time. last year, i never thought there was a game that they'd lose. this year, i keep waiting for that streak where they'd be unstoppable, but it's just not there. last year, i thought they were unbeatable, this year i don't feel that and what's worse is i don't think THEY feel it either. when they fell behind 5-0, i knew there would be no comeback. i knew the game was over and i knew they knew it too.
Wang.
Posts: 3,011
Threads: 81
Joined: Dec 2008
Reputation:
0
I think chemistry is bullshit. I think if you win, your team has chemistry. I think if you lose, it doesn't. The '05 White Sox are a good example. AJP might have been jumping around like a monkey on crack in September, but they still went 2-8 for a 10 game stretch, before sweeping the Indians to sew up the division. The Sox won because of career years from almost every pitcher, and superb defense, not because AJP knew how to crack a joke.
I wish that I believed in Fate. I wish I didn't sleep so late. I used to be carried in the arms of cheerleaders.
Posts: 157
Threads: 19
Joined: May 2009
Reputation:
0
<!--quoteo(post=41396:date=Jun 1 2009, 10:07 AM:name=cherp)-->QUOTE (cherp @ Jun 1 2009, 10:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->When is Aramis expected back? He really makes a difference in this lineup. He is the guy who has that Sosa-like quality of being able to singlehandedly carry the team. Lee did - for one season - but that's what this team nees... a healthy Aramis.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No way is Aramis on par with Sosa. Ramirez can put up some decent numbers, but I wouldn't consider him a leader of the pack. Even more, Ramirez is normally the kind of player that feeds off the rest of his teammates. He's not the kind of player that turns lead to gold.
"Last year, I was sort of a kid and I was a little scared, I ain't scared any more."
Quote:- Hank Aaron
Posts: 11,808
Threads: 390
Joined: Oct 2008
Reputation:
0
I'm not a huge believer in intangibles. AJP didn't win the World Series for the Sox -- their starting pitching did. It's easy to point to plays on the field where someone tries to get his team riled up as some sort of "turning point," but I think it just makes sort of a bookmark. If something big happens after someone throws a spaz, then it's due to the spaz. If nothing happens, then everyone forgets that it happened.
Eric Byrnes typifies that kind of player, if you ask me. He's high energy, he throws a fit anytime he hits an XBH or steals a base, or makes a catch, or takes a ball. Does it make the rest of his team perform better? Um...I really don't think so.
Ramirez, Lee, Soriano -- they're all incredibly exciting players when they're playing well. Soriano is one of the most exciting players in the game when he's on a hot streak. Unfortunately, his cold streaks seem to last forever. Ramirez is a ridiculously good hitter...but he's out for a spell. Lee? If he was hitting like he did in 2005 (or any other year, honestly), then he's a lot of fun to watch.
When a team isn't playing well, we tend to look for answers in weird places. Leadership, energy, chemistry? If everyone is hitting and pitching, there's plenty of that. If everyone is sucking, everyone thinks the team is lacking in intangibles.
As far as Sosa goes, he made his teammates better, but it wasn't because he sprinted out to RF or blew kisses to the camera. It's because he was one of the most prolific offensive threats in baseball history for a 5-year stretch. It's like what Pujols is doing with a pretty pedestrian lineup surrounding him. Pujols doesn't gyrate, pose, or throw a fit -- but he hits the shit out of the ball. We just need guys to hit. We don't need Eric Byrnes.
My opinion, anyway.
BackyardLegend -- good to have you on board, by the way.
Posts: 157
Threads: 19
Joined: May 2009
Reputation:
0
<!--quoteo(post=41400:date=Jun 1 2009, 10:16 AM:name=BT)-->QUOTE (BT @ Jun 1 2009, 10:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I think chemistry is bullshit. I think if you win, your team has chemistry. I think if you lose, it doesn't. The '05 White Sox are a good example. AJP might have been jumping around like a monkey on crack in September, but they still went 2-8 for a 10 game stretch, before sweeping the Indians to sew up the division. The Sox won because of career years from almost every pitcher, and superb defense, not because AJP knew how to crack a joke.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, A.J.P. wasn't the sole reason the Sox went to the top. They had career years out of everyone.
But teams need players like that--at least one. And no, I don't mean Zambrano breaking a bat over his knee and going Tonya Harding on a water cooler.
"Last year, I was sort of a kid and I was a little scared, I ain't scared any more."
Quote:- Hank Aaron
Posts: 14,116
Threads: 90
Joined: Nov 2008
Reputation:
0
I agree with pretty much every word that Butch said. At the same time, it's clear to me that this team has taken on a defeatist attitude in many ways. The talent level isn't that much different from last season and especially from 2007 (remember we lost Alf for over a month). Losing Aramis hurts, but we were supposed to be deep enough to withstand a loss like that for a month or two.
Posts: 1,407
Threads: 18
Joined: Nov 2008
Reputation:
0
I think intangibles do play a role, although maybe not a huge one. I think Reed Johnson is fairly similar to Byrnes actually, goes hard all the time, high energy and I love him for it.
That said I'm certainly not the type of person that thinks "lets get 9 guys who play the game the right way and we will win for sure!" I'll take a douche who is a good player on my team if he is goign to produce.
Still these guys are humans, I think confidence is very important in sports and having friends around you and a strong team is gonna help that. I also think having a leader that can handle behind the doors shit and be an example helps. I also do think one event or trade or game can change things for a team at least enough to give a temporary spark.
I do agree though, that above all else talent and performance are gonna decide if you win games.
Posts: 157
Threads: 19
Joined: May 2009
Reputation:
0
<!--quoteo(post=41402:date=Jun 1 2009, 10:23 AM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Jun 1 2009, 10:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->When a team isn't playing well, we tend to look for answers in weird places. Leadership, energy, chemistry? If everyone is hitting and pitching, there's plenty of that. If everyone is sucking, everyone thinks the team is lacking in intangibles.
BackyardLegend -- good to have you on board, by the way.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thanks, I'm glad to be here.
I hear what you are saying here Butcher, but I have to ask this: when we entered the playoffs last year after an incredible regular season, who did you point to and say, "That is the man that is going to lead this team to the promise land."
I guess that goes hand-in-hand with being "clutch". Some people say I'm full of crap when I say clutch is an attribute you can have. But with that said, I would take Manny Ramirez over Alfonso Soriano any day of the week. (Steroids aside)
"Last year, I was sort of a kid and I was a little scared, I ain't scared any more."
Quote:- Hank Aaron
Posts: 11,808
Threads: 390
Joined: Oct 2008
Reputation:
0
<!--quoteo(post=41408:date=Jun 1 2009, 10:45 AM:name=BackyardLegend)-->QUOTE (BackyardLegend @ Jun 1 2009, 10:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=41402:date=Jun 1 2009, 10:23 AM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Jun 1 2009, 10:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->When a team isn't playing well, we tend to look for answers in weird places. Leadership, energy, chemistry? If everyone is hitting and pitching, there's plenty of that. If everyone is sucking, everyone thinks the team is lacking in intangibles.
BackyardLegend -- good to have you on board, by the way.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thanks, I'm glad to be here.
I hear what you are saying here Butcher, but I have to ask this: when we entered the playoffs last year after an incredible regular season, who did you point to and say, "That is the man that is going to lead this team to the promise land."
I guess that goes hand-in-hand with being "clutch". Some people say I'm full of crap when I say clutch is an attribute you can have. But with that said, I would take Manny Ramirez over Alfonso Soriano any day of the week. (Steroids aside)
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd expect our best players to pull most of the weight. Zambrano on the pitching end, Ramirez on the offensive end. And if Soriano ever goes into the playoffs on a hot streak, he could be the NLDS/NLCS and World Series MVP.
If "clutch" is truly an attribute, then Ramirez is someone who has it in spades, right? He seems to come up with a whole lot of big hits in big situations. Unfortunately, he didn't do it in the playoffs the last two seasons. Of course, we only played six games, so I'm not sure you can glean much from that sample size (whether Ramirez is truly "clutch" or not).
Posts: 14,116
Threads: 90
Joined: Nov 2008
Reputation:
0
<!--quoteo(post=41410:date=Jun 1 2009, 10:54 AM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Jun 1 2009, 10:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=41408:date=Jun 1 2009, 10:45 AM:name=BackyardLegend)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BackyardLegend @ Jun 1 2009, 10:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=41402:date=Jun 1 2009, 10:23 AM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Jun 1 2009, 10:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->When a team isn't playing well, we tend to look for answers in weird places. Leadership, energy, chemistry? If everyone is hitting and pitching, there's plenty of that. If everyone is sucking, everyone thinks the team is lacking in intangibles.
BackyardLegend -- good to have you on board, by the way.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thanks, I'm glad to be here.
I hear what you are saying here Butcher, but I have to ask this: when we entered the playoffs last year after an incredible regular season, who did you point to and say, "That is the man that is going to lead this team to the promise land."
I guess that goes hand-in-hand with being "clutch". Some people say I'm full of crap when I say clutch is an attribute you can have. But with that said, I would take Manny Ramirez over Alfonso Soriano any day of the week. (Steroids aside)
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd expect our best players to pull most of the weight. Zambrano on the pitching end, Ramirez on the offensive end. And if Soriano ever goes into the playoffs on a hot streak, he could be the NLDS/NLCS and World Series MVP.
If "clutch" is truly an attribute, then Ramirez is someone who has it in spades, right? He seems to come up with a whole lot of big hits in big situations. Unfortunately, he didn't do it in the playoffs the last two seasons. Of course, we only played six games, so I'm not sure you can glean much from that sample size (whether Ramirez is truly "clutch" or not).
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And he didn't come up in many situations with RISP during the past 2 playoff series though, but yes he didn't contribute much regardless.
Anyway, let's just hope he comes back right on schedule because I'm not sure how long I can watch this team play mediocre ball. 2005-06 always come to mind as the lost seasons, and I can't take another one like those after all these playoff disappointments.
Posts: 209
Threads: 2
Joined: Dec 2008
Reputation:
0
<!--quoteo(post=41401:date=Jun 1 2009, 10:18 AM:name=BackyardLegend)-->QUOTE (BackyardLegend @ Jun 1 2009, 10:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=41396:date=Jun 1 2009, 10:07 AM:name=cherp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cherp @ Jun 1 2009, 10:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->When is Aramis expected back? He really makes a difference in this lineup. He is the guy who has that Sosa-like quality of being able to singlehandedly carry the team. Lee did - for one season - but that's what this team nees... a healthy Aramis.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No way is Aramis on par with Sosa. Ramirez can put up some decent numbers, but I wouldn't consider him a leader of the pack. Even more, Ramirez is normally the kind of player that feeds off the rest of his teammates. He's not the kind of player that turns lead to gold.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I wasn't saying he was "on par" with Sammy. I said he has that Sosa-like quality of being able to singlehandedly carry a team. There is nobody else on this team with that sort of impact bat.
JH hoped that Milton would be it. He isn't. Dlee isn't anymore. Soto isn't close.
I really think this team NEEDS Aramis in order to be able to dominate.
|
