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<!--quoteo(post=64846:date=Sep 30 2009, 04:57 PM:name=bz)-->QUOTE (bz @ Sep 30 2009, 04:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Here's the problem: how do you trust that they can determine the degree in which a ball is playable consistently or any better than just some random guy with a much smaller sample size?
I can't wait til that defense-camera-majig that Butcher showed comes out.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, they <i>have</i> refined it quite a bit over the years. It now takes into account wet grass, bad hops, the spin on the ball, whether another fielder is impeding their view, and a lot of other things.
I believe that it's getting more accurate.
As for judging a 1st baseman, it does take into account scoops on in-the-dirt throws, high throws, fielding the bunt, making a catch on a pop foul close to, or IN to the stands, underhanded throws to the pitcher covering 1st, etc.
Thus, it seems to me to be a pretty good indicator of how well a 1st sacker does with the glove.
There's nothing better than to realize that the good things about youth don't end with youth itself. It's a matter of realizing that life can be renewed every day you get out of bed without baggage. It's tough to get there, but it's better than the dark thoughts. -Lance
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I got yer 1st-sacker right here.
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<!--quoteo(post=64851:date=Sep 30 2009, 05:10 PM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Sep 30 2009, 05:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I got yer 1st-sacker right here.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What, you've only got one nut, like Hitler?
There's nothing better than to realize that the good things about youth don't end with youth itself. It's a matter of realizing that life can be renewed every day you get out of bed without baggage. It's tough to get there, but it's better than the dark thoughts. -Lance
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<!--quoteo(post=64850:date=Sep 30 2009, 05:06 PM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ Sep 30 2009, 05:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=64846:date=Sep 30 2009, 04:57 PM:name=bz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bz @ Sep 30 2009, 04:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Here's the problem: how do you trust that they can determine the degree in which a ball is playable consistently or any better than just some random guy with a much smaller sample size?
I can't wait til that defense-camera-majig that Butcher showed comes out.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, they <i>have</i> refined it quite a bit over the years. It now takes into account wet grass, bad hops, the spin on the ball, whether another fielder is impeding their view, and a lot of other things.
I believe that it's getting more accurate.
As for judging a 1st baseman, it does take into account scoops on in-the-dirt throws, high throws, fielding the bunt, making a catch on a pop foul close to, or IN to the stands, underhanded throws to the pitcher covering 1st, etc.
Thus, it seems to me to be a pretty good indicator of how well a 1st sacker does with the glove.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
http://www.billjamesonline.net/fieldingb...erview.asp
<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->Derrek Lee has won a Gold Glove in two of the last three years. How is it that he’s fielded 13 fewer balls than could be expected of an average major league first baseman in that time? That’s what the Plus/Minus System number of -13 for Derrek Lee means. (Technically, the meaning is slightly different, but I’ll explain that later). The American League Gold Glover this year was Mark Teixeira, whose +17 was the best in baseball. Why is it that the National League Gold Glover comes out at -13 over three years? OK, so his 2005 number is +2. That doesn’t seem very good for the Gold Glove winner.
Well, this is the weakest position for the Plus/Minus System. Most defensive measures have trouble with first basemen. Putouts simply tell you how many groundouts were hit against the team, more a function of the pitchers and other infielders. First baseman assists might have some meaning, but there is no real consensus about what, and they are not reliable as an indicator of range due to the discretionary nature of the play on which the great majority of first base assists occur, the 3-1 flip. Some first basemen just prefer to step on the bag themselves. There are no range factors at first base. <b>While we are measuring very meaningful information on first basemen in the Plus/Minus System, we are missing one huge element: the ability to handle throws, especially of the errant variety, made by the other infielders. That’s a place where Derrek Lee really excels, perhaps.</b> He saves many an error for his fellow infielders, and it’s this ability that takes him a long way towards his Gold Gloves—or at least there is the perception that this is true.
<b>Another defensive element that is not measured by plus/minus, but we are measuring in this book, is the handling of bunts.</b> Over three years, Lee has the second highest score among first basemen in handling bunts. (See Fielding Bunts article on page 211.)<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
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Good work, Scarey.
And I stand corrected, if that it still true (I believe that that article is 2-3 years old).
I wonder why, if there exists a way to chart the handling of bunts, why the plus/minus system doesn't incorporate it. Maybe it now does.
There's nothing better than to realize that the good things about youth don't end with youth itself. It's a matter of realizing that life can be renewed every day you get out of bed without baggage. It's tough to get there, but it's better than the dark thoughts. -Lance
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Does anyone else find it amusing that KB is always willing to take stats over eyes/scouting, but when the eyes/scouting is completely fabricated into a "stat" he thinks it's damn-near the greatest thing? I know I do.
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<!--quoteo(post=64872:date=Sep 30 2009, 07:22 PM:name=ruby23)-->QUOTE (ruby23 @ Sep 30 2009, 07:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Does anyone else find it amusing that KB is always willing to take stats over eyes/scouting, but when the eyes/scouting is completely fabricated into a "stat" he thinks it's damn-near the greatest thing? I know I do.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think KB has anything against scouting. I think he has issue with the ability of certain scouts sometimes. As opposed to all scouts all of the time as you imply.
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<!--quoteo(post=64872:date=Sep 30 2009, 07:22 PM:name=ruby23)-->QUOTE (ruby23 @ Sep 30 2009, 07:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Does anyone else find it amusing that KB is always willing to take stats over eyes/scouting, but when the eyes/scouting is completely fabricated into a "stat" he thinks it's damn-near the greatest thing? I know I do.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Dude, you're either easily amused, or have poor reading comprehension.
I'm a huge fan of scouts. I've mentioned this countless times on the site. Other than making it my signature in each post, I don't know how else to put it.
It's true that when the vague generalities that come out of a scout's mouth can be tabulated into a provable stat, I consider it a pleasing advancement.
Sorry, I can't help it that you're a Luddite who detests trying to quantify the game by going much beyond, "That thar fella is a fine ballplayer. That other fella...he kinda sucks."
You're lucky, though: at least you're blessed with being a fan of a team with one of the few remaining front offices in the game who talk about things like "five-tool players," and "he's got a baseball Face."
That puts you on the side of angels in Cubland.
Here's to ya.[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif[/img]
There's nothing better than to realize that the good things about youth don't end with youth itself. It's a matter of realizing that life can be renewed every day you get out of bed without baggage. It's tough to get there, but it's better than the dark thoughts. -Lance
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<!--quoteo(post=64884:date=Sep 30 2009, 08:26 PM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ Sep 30 2009, 08:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I'm a huge fan of scouts.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Girl Scouts or Boy Scouts
[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/teh.gif[/img]
Fat Bastard is an immensely obese, hardly able to walk (weighing a metric ton) gardener and henchman hailing from Scotland. His extreme size endows Fat Bastard with super-human strength as exhibited by his prowess in the Sumo ring from Goldmember. This makes him a formidable enemy for Austin Powers. Fat Bastard is noted for his foul temper, his frequent flatulence, his vulgar and revolting bad manners and his unusual eating habits, which include taste for Human infants (which he calls "the other other white meat") or anything that looks like a baby, e.g. small people. Fat Bastard has been a regular at Cub games since the early 80's when he tried several times (unsuccessfully) to eat the visiting San Diego Chicken.
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<!--quoteo(post=64884:date=Sep 30 2009, 10:26 PM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ Sep 30 2009, 10:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=64872:date=Sep 30 2009, 07:22 PM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ Sep 30 2009, 07:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Does anyone else find it amusing that KB is always willing to take stats over eyes/scouting, but when the eyes/scouting is completely fabricated into a "stat" he thinks it's damn-near the greatest thing? I know I do.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Dude, you're either easily amused, or have poor reading comprehension.
I'm a huge fan of scouts. I've mentioned this countless times on the site. Other than making it my signature in each post, I don't know how else to put it.
It's true that when the vague generalities that come out of a scout's mouth can be tabulated into a provable stat, I consider it a pleasing advancement.
Sorry, I can't help it that you're a Luddite who detests trying to quantify the game by going much beyond, "That thar fella is a fine ballplayer. That other fella...he kinda sucks."
You're lucky, though: at least you're blessed with being a fan of a team with one of the few remaining front offices in the game who talk about things like "five-tool players," and "he's got a baseball Face."
That puts you on the side of angels in Cubland.
Here's to ya.[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif[/img]
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My reading comprehension is top notch and with your wonderful highlighting, terrific sentence/paragraph structure, and completely logical and rational thoughts . . . I'm almost always amused.
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I'm still really torn on Burrell. I think he could have nice numbers at Wrigley, but our OF defense actually would get much worse with him out there. Didn't he have a decent arm at least?
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<!--quoteo(post=65981:date=Oct 8 2009, 09:40 AM:name=rok)-->QUOTE (rok @ Oct 8 2009, 09:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I'm still really torn on Burrell. I think he could have nice numbers at Wrigley, but our OF defense actually would get much worse with him out there. Didn't he have a decent arm at least?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've always known him to have an average arm. He did have 12 outfield assists last year though.
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So is the Jaramillo rumor, if it pans out...preparation for having Bradley on the roster in 2010?
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<!--quoteo(post=66352:date=Oct 14 2009, 10:12 AM:name=jstraw)-->QUOTE (jstraw @ Oct 14 2009, 10:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->So is the Jaramillo rumor, if it pans out...preparation for having Bradley on the roster in 2010?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The article was written by Rogers. I doubt the rumor holds any water.
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